Ok, got brass and speer 150 grain bullets as well as some speer 130 grain. I see some loads posted in the load swap for the 307 win with reloader 15 and the 150 grain rem bullet.

I have checked a couple of manuels and dont seem to be able to find reloader 15 in them for the 307 win with speer bullets. Just wanted to double check for saftey sake. Reloader 15 isnt in any published load books that I can find for the 307.

If I used the Max posted load of 45 grains of Reloader 15 beneath a Speer 150 grain fp bullet, does any one know what type of CUP pressure we are talking about? Also, what would you recommend as a starting load? 43 grains?

Thanks Jim

“I have checked a couple of manuals and don’t seem to be able to find reloader 15 in them for the 307 win with speer bullets. Just wanted to double check for saftey sake. Reloader 15 isnt in any published load books that I can find for the 307.”

I know of no published load data for the .307 Winchester using Alliant Reloder 15. Ken Waters lists one load in his Pet Loads-Update for a 170-grain bullet and Reloder 15.
We have had good luck with no surprises using Alliant Reloder 15 and Hodgdon Varget in the .307 Winchester with a wide variety of bullets. In some of our loads the powder charge is moderately compressed. We primarily use the 130-grain and 170—grain Speer bullets. Our use of the 150-grain bullets was pretty well limited to the direct comparison tests of the .30-30AI against the .307. In the .30-30AI we found the 150-grain Remington, Sierra and Speer bullets to be interchangeable. Since we seem to have left a hole in our data we can fill it this weekend (loading .307’s right now so we’ll add a few 150-grain Speers to the group).

I would use 43.0 grains as my starting point. This is a good load giving us between 2,520 and 2,550 fps on any given day with the Remington bullets.
After varying the load a bit we settled on between 44.6 and 44.8 grains of Reloder 15 as our most accurate loads with the Remington bullet.
The Remington bullet will shoot just a bit smaller groups using 44.0 grains of Hodgdon Varget. This load gave us slightly lower velocity at about 2,530 fps for an average of several strings.

“If I used the Max posted load of 45 grains of Reloader 15 beneath a Speer 150 grain fp bullet, does any one know what type of CUP pressure we are talking about? “

Now for the guess work; when we were seriously comparing the .30-30AI and .307 we looked at the Speer bullet pretty closely. The bullet is about .940” OAL and we seat it .455” deep in the .307. This gives us a COAL of 2.500”. A 20” barrel has about 16.8” of useable barrel length and we estimated a 45.0 grain charge of Reloader 15 at 49,300 CUP. While we didn’t pull this figure out of thin air it is a guess at best. Perhaps someone with Quick Loads or Loads from a Disk and a few minutes on their hands could compare our estimate.

It is interesting to note the 150-grain Barnes X is a very different bullet and I consider 42.0 grains of Reloder 15 a maximum load in my .307. This load giving us a little over 2,460 fps, depending on the day.
With the 170 grain bullets we have found the Speer and Sierra bullets to be interchangeable. The Hornady bullet in the two Winchester rifles we loaded for must be seated a little deeper due to the wider meplat and this, combined with the greater bearing surface caused us to reduce our loads just a little for the Hornady bullet. The Hornady 170 grain bullets works very well in the .307 but it is different from the Speer bullet. The Nosler Partition acts more like the Speer bullet in our experience.

I got a little wordy here but we are wearing out a few pencils looking at the .308 Marlin Express and estimating it’s performance compared to the .307 Winchester. Because of this we are trying to compare our .307 data to our .308 ME estimates and the question of the 150-grain Speer bullet comes at a time when we are particularly interested in how this bullet will perform in both rifles – I bought a good supply of this bullet when Midway had them on sale.

It's a different cartridge altogether, but i've used RL15 in my .22-250 and from several loads i've tried i've determined it's really close in burn rate to IMR 4064.

Not sure if that helps you, but I thought i'd throw it out there. :)

Ole,
I agree, with Reloder 15 just a little slower than IMR 4064, perhaps. This category of powder is pretty full and provides a lot of choices for different cartridges and rifles. I prefer Hodgdon Varget for accuracy and Alliant Reloder 15 for highest velocity. IMR 4064 is right behind both of them and is a good powder for the .307. The problem is so are several other powders! You could start and stop your powder selection with Hodgdon 4895. While not my favorites there are several Beartooth Forum members who have demonstrated over and over the sterling qualities of Winchester 748 and Hodgdon BLc2 in the .307 and for that matte, in the .356 too. A number of Forum members prefer the Accurate Arms powders and speak highly of them. Sure makes it tough for a new shooter to pick a powder!

I forgot to add to the post above the Speer 130 grain bullet shoots very well in my rifle ahead of 46.0 grains of Reloder 15. This load giving me between 2,720 fps and 2,750 fps depending on the day and the way the chronograph is set up. This is a good load and just about as accurate as 45.0 grains of IMR 4064. This 45.0 grain load is the load I use as the baseline for accuracy in the .307 Winchester.

I shot the 150 grain loads this morning using the Speer 150 grain bullet. 44.0 grains of Alliant Reloder 15 got 2,651 fps from the 20” barrel with an E of 41 and SD of 29 fps.
The 45.0 grain load gave us 2,678 fps with an E of 2 and SD of 1 fps.
The 46.0 grain load gave us 2,718 fps. While this load shot the smallest group and extracted easily I believe it is over-maximum in my Winchester rifle.
As a control I shot some more of the 42.0 grain Hodgdon 4895 loads using the Speer 150 grain bullets. While this load gave us 2,529 fps with an E of 14 and SD of 9 fps it shot .6” at 50 yards. The Reloder 15 loads all averaged 1.1” to 1.3” at 50 yards. Hodgdon 4895 is certainly an all-around powder. It is going to be a lot of fun to compare the .307 Winchester with the .308 Marlin Express.

While fiddling with the .307 I shot some 130 grain Speer bullets using 45.0 grains of RL 15 and got 2,694 fps with an E of 36 and SD of 25 fps.
46.0 grains got 2,780 fps with an E of 13 and SD of 9 fps. This load shot into 1.1” at fifty yards and I’ll look at again some day.

I hope this helps get you started. It will fun to compare this load with my favorite IMR 4064 load at 100 yards.

EDIT] I forgot to mention I used Winchester .307 brass and Federal large rifle primers. I seated the bullets to a COAL of 2.500". I believe I should have seated these out to 2.55". I used a Lee factory crimp die.]EDIT

williamiorg,
wow, thanks for actually going to the trouble to throw some lead for me. I am very excited to see the results of your work and I hope I can achieve the consistancy you seemed to get with your loads. I would be thrilled with 2,650 + fps.

If Hornady ever releases the gummy bullets for the 30/30 the 160 grain bullet, the 307 & Reloader 15 would be a fun combo. The slicker 308 marlin bullet seems to be too long for the action. I wonder about triming the brass like they did with the 444 marlin to make it work. Ah the possibilities!

next project is scoping the rifle to see how the loads will shoot. I had hoped to put a XS leverscout mount on it but it appears that that mount will not fit the bigbore. I saw a forward scout mount from Burris and the one from Wild West that may work though I am not excited about drilling the barrel.


Jim

I didn’t go that far out of my way as I was loading for the .307 anyway. I am comparing actual .307 data with estimated .308 Marlin Express data so this fit right in.

The consistency in some of my chronograph data is thanks to Greg Mushial. His tips on operating chronographs have been of considerable help. If there is one factor in consistent readings it is setting up the same every time. I measure the muzzle to first screen distance every time and try to keep it the same for every shot in a string. This is harder then it looks. Greg overcame this by building a special shooting stand and mounting his chronograph screens on concrete pads!

2,650 fps is good performance from a 20” barrel. For the distance most of us shoot we don’t need those “gummy” bullets or high-energy powders. But I’ll take either one if I can get them!
Your correct the Hornady bullets will be too long to work with the .307 Winchester case. Hornady said this was THE reason they shortened the .308 Marlin Express case.
Trimming the brass will probably not work, as the bullet is long and the .307 neck is pretty short.

I have an old steel tube Weaver V-3 on my .307. I just received a Burris Short Mag. straight 4X. I intend to mount this scope on the .308 Marlin Express when I get it later this year. I have heard up and down reports on the Burris Short Mag. scopes and thought I would try one for myself.

I have a Burris forward scope mount on a .30-30 Winchester Trapper. I had to drill a hole in the barrel band but no other permanent damage. I like the forward mount very much and find it handy at short distances on moving game.

Jim[/QUOTE]

William,

Any other news to report on the data collected from the 307 Winchester. I am trying to go back thru since having to format my PC and gather all the data I once had.

You really should write a book. Mainly for areas covering the 30-30, 30AI, 307, & 356. I would buy one in a heartbeat. A plastic spiral bound paperback should be easy to do. ;)

Johnny

Johnny,
I’m just a hobbyist and not a writer. I am working on a Tech Note for submission covering some of our experiences with the .30-30AI. This will take awhile as I am trying to sort through the data to give an honest appraisal of the cartridge without making it all appear to be “easy street.” Included in this will be a direct comparison between the 20” .30-30AI and the 20” .307. The real snag came when Winchester folded and the price of average “gun show rifles” went up beyond reason. This put a crimp in my 16” Improved Trapper test. I have been thinking of a TC barrel that I could cut from 24” to 22” to 20” and then 16”. This would confirm a few theories and have the added benefit of a third 26” barrel standard .30-30 for initial comparison purposes. A problem with the Tech Note is pictures. I am a pretty poor photographer and I am struggling with this.
We have answered all of our initial questions and proven to ourselves that while the .30-30AI is not a .307 Winchester it is a very interesting high-performance cartridge when used by a careful handloader. While doing this we have “discovered” the amazing potential of the standard .30-30 WCF with the 26” barrel. This one of the reasons I am so excited about the 22” .308 Marlin Express. The .308 ME is going to be a fine deer cartridge for the handloader. We will not be severely handicapped by the lack of pointy bullets or High-Energy powders.
One area we have not explored extensively is the paper patch bullet in the .30-30AI. I have shot paper patch bullets in the .307 with a wide variety of powders and I need to duplicate some of this with the .30-30AI to have a well rounded look at bullet selection.

While we don’t have a good selection of the LeveRevolution bullets for testing I am well stocked on most other types. I attached this picture in a different thread of the 150 gr Barnes X, the 160 gr Lever-evolution, the 170 gr Remington Rn, 170 Nosler Partition Rn, 170 gr Winchester Silver Tip, 170 gr Hornady Fn, 170 gr Speer Fn for comparison. I should have included some of the Nosler solid base 170 gr flat nose bullets I have saved but forgot. The new Hornady Lever-evolution is similar to the old Nosler solid base in appearance. I am trying to stockpile a good supply of the 150-grain bullets for the .308 ME when it hits the streets.

EDIT] Well, I am not very smart. I forgot to mention what I am up too. Chris Cash has me comparing some .356 loads with his, Hodgdon 4895 for the moment. While doing that I broke my old K2.5 Weaver scope. Because of this I am back to looking at the .307 until I can come up with a new scope for the .356. This will be with Hodgdon Varget to see how well I can predict velocities.

William,

Bull! You may be a hobbyist(sp) but you don't give yourself enough credit. You've been a well spring of knowledge for me as well as others on this board for reloading the cartridges I called out earlier. But I understand also.

As far as the 307 goes I've been in contact with www.cpcartridge.com out of Como, MS and am hoping to find good results with Mr. Conley's ammo. I know he used a 20" barrel to find velocities for his 307 loads and something that I found interesting is that he mixes his powders to come up with his own receipe. I ordered a one of every weight, except the Barnes bullets, and will put them over teh chrony when I get'em.

I too have several brands of the 130, 150, & 170 gr bullets for the 30 caliber I just don't have time/space to reload yet. But with the kids getting bigger that may change this summer and I can start up again.

Keep us posted on your finds from the 307 Win and 308 Exp when you can.

Be safe my friend.

Johnny

Johnny,

Was I discussing sabots in the .307 Winchester with you? I have been shooting some with Alliant Reloder 10.
While looking at sabots and Reloder 10 I thought I would shoot a few bullets. The wind is was blowing 20+ mph this morning with gusts to 30 mph. I sandbagged the chronograph stands and set up the targets at 50-yards.
I believe Reloder 10 is similar to IMR 3031 and is a bit fast for the .307 in lever action rifles. I used
The 130-grain Speer bullet is an accurate bullet in my Winchester rifle. I started out with 38.0 grains of Reloder 10 and these chronographed 2,579 fps with an E of 73 and SD of 37 fps. A three shot group measured 1.37” on the RCBS Load Target Tool. The visual indications are of low pressure.
39.0 grains of Reloder 10 chronographed 2,634 fps with an E of 31 and SD of 21 fps. Target Tool measured the three shot group at .658” – again these are 50-yard groups. All of the visual indications still suggest low pressure. (As a comparison this load puts us up in the best operating range of the .30-30AI – my target maximum velocity with 20-inch barrel for the .30-30AI with 130-grain bullets is 2,700 fps and this is where the best accuracy seems to be in the Winchester and Marlin rifles.)

The 150-grain Speer bullet ahead of 35.0 grains of Reloder 10 chronographed 2,355 fps with an E of 44 and SD of 22 fps. The first three shots of a five shot group fell into a triangle measuring .667”; the last two shots opened this up to 3.0”.
Increasing the powder charge one grain to 36.0 grains of Reloder 10 gave us 2,423 fps with an E of 11 and SD of 7 fps. The first three shots measured .716” and the remaining two opened the group up to 2.27”.

The 130-grain loads used Federal Large Rifle primers and were loaded to a COAL of 2.50”. The 150-grain bullets were loaded to a COAL of 2.55”. The 170-grain loads were seated at 2.50”.

The 170 grain Hornady bullets ahead of 37.0 grains of Reloder 10 chronographed 2,434 fps with an E of 8 and SD of 5 fps. This load put three shots into .655”.

Moving up to 38.0 grains of Reloder 10 gave us 2,479 fps with an E of 27 and SD of 19 fps. Three shots measuring .776”.

The 38.0 grain load is a maximum load for the 170-grain bullets and for everyday use I would stop at the 37.0 grain load. I saw no difference in the point of impact on the target, and the velocity is virtually the same so there is no good reason to run at the red line with this bullet weight. It would be fun to graph a spread of five grains of powder charge to see how Reloder 10 acts as it approaches a maximum load.

The Oehler 35P chronograph does not like blowing dirt and the printer quits pretty quickly when the dirt starts to fly. To the Oehler’s credit it captures velocities very well with low angle light early in the morning and the wind rocking the sky screens seems to have little or no affect.

It’s very difficult for me to do everything the same with lever-action rifles on the bench. I use square black targets to help me align the cross hairs of the scope and avoid canting. Yet working the action to load new rounds and allowing the rifle to free recoil into my shoulder seems to change the rifles position on the bags for each shot. Add a little blowing dirt and a cold wind and it sure is easy to loose concentration and open up a group. The .307 does not have excessive recoil but the large drop at the heel means you must work harder to handle recoil the same way.
For the .307 Winchester Hodgdon 335 or H4895 are about the fastest powders I consider to be useful for all bullet weights. It will be fun to see if the .308 Marlin Express, with its slightly smaller case capacity, likes Reloder 10 any better.

am hoping to find good results with Mr. Conley's ammo. I know he used a 20" barrel to find velocities for his 307 loads and something that I found interesting is that he mixes his powders to come up with his own receipe.

Johnny,

I wanted to keep this post separate from the other.
How about a link to the Conley site?

Early .454 Casull load data used three different powders in the same case with cellophane spacers to keep the powder separated. The only authentic reload data I have been able to find on mixed or “blended” powders is by H. Guy Loverin. The article titled; “Assembling Reloads” is from the June 1954 issue of the American Rifleman. This is not a reloading technique for us amateurs.
I would be very interested in reading anyone’s range report on this ammunition.

I guess I was thinking of blended powders and missed the link. I took a look and his data seems very realistic and all of his load data looks possible with the 20-inch barrel and conventional powders.
307 Winchester 125 Gr. FNHP 2800 FPS

2750 fps is where I stopped. I did not try for highest velocity with this bullet.

307 Winchester 130 Gr. Flat Nose 2800 FPS

I can reach 2800 fps safely.

307 Winchester 150 Gr. Barnes TSX FN 2500 FPS

My better Barnes X loads run 2550 fps with the Barnes bullet. I used a lot of caution here as I was concerned about hot (above 90 degrees) weather.

307 Winchester 150 Gr. Flat Nose 2500 FPS

I can nudge 2600 fps safely with the convention 150-grain jacketed flat nose bullets using Alliant Reloder 15, Winchester 748, Hodgdon BLc2.
Hodgdon Varget and H4895 come up just a little short velocity wise at about 2550 fps. These powders are not enough short on velocity to be counted out and they provide good accuracy.

307 Winchester 170 Gr. Flat Nose 2450 FPS

My best handloads come up just a little short here. I get just over 2400 fps with several powders. I have shot Winchester 748 at 2450 fps several times but have not been happy about the visual pressure indications with this powder at these maximum pressure levels. There was nothing unsafe about what I was seeing but at this velocity my brass will generally not make ten reloads. The primer pockets get just slightly loose after several loadings at this level. No leakage but the resistance as the primer seats feels different, the primer seating easily with no real resistance.

307 Winchester 170 Gr. Nosler Partition 2450 FPS

A little over 2430 at most of my loading but I have not searched the high end with Reloder 15 and the Nosler Partition. I should take a look at this one day.

William,

I got speak with Mr. Conley yesterday afternoon about the loads he builds for the 307. He stated that he dropped the advertised velocity of the 150gr to 2500fps. But the actual data will be around the 2600fps mark. He did this just as a precaution for a customer that was complaining about not getting exactly up the 2600fps mark. I guess the guy was complaining cause he was falling 10fps short. Mr. Conley seemed busy as I could hear the phone ringing in the background, and I didn't want to keep him from his work so I didn't bring up the mixed powder. When I get some of his loads in I think I will pull some of them apart and see if I can figure out what kind of powder he is using. If you want to compare them to some of your loads let me know and I will send you some of them to verify. Am hoping to see good results with the 130gr. For my deer and varmint hunting needs I think this should be a good load if bullet performance will meet short & long range needs. Year before last I sat and watched 2 deer walk about 20 feet in front of me. It had been so long since I'd really gotten outdoors and in that environment that I just simply enjoyed seeing them up that close. But I got an ear full when I got back to camp from my brother, but I didnt care I just smiled at him so he dropped it and think he understood.

That's good news to hear about Reloader 10. I had intended to go thru my gun cabinet lastnight and see what powders I still had on hand to try. I know I have IMR4064 but was thinking I have purchased a can of RL15 but can't remember. I had a sick little boy that wanted my attention so I didn't get to it. He got to stay in bed this morning with his mother, I got to drag my tired end into work.

Johnny

[Johnny,
I can only imagine what Mr. Conley must go through. You can load q large amount of ammunition with the same components and chronograph them over a period of time and receive some pretty varied results. Just setting up the chronograph and having the muzzle the same distance from the start screen can make a difference. Any reading within 150 fps from a different rifle and chronograph should make us happy.
Mr. Conley’s data looks like good quality reload data. Unless you have Propellant Profiles with the measurements of the extruded powder kernels and the measurements for spherical powders pulling a bullet will probably be of little help in identifying the powder charge. It may be that you don’t want to know.

The 130-grain Speer bullet is tough and penetrates well even on close shots and .307 Winchester velocities. It took awhile for some of the Beartooth Forum members from Oregon and Washington to convince me this was a real deer bullet. After I tried the bullet on deer I have to admit it is a good one.

William,

When I spoke with Mr. Conley yesterday he said that he tries to get his ammo to +/- 50fps for a measurement on, standard cartridges, I think. After speaking with you I feel like I should have not gotten the 125grhp and just went with the 130gr loads. But I can always use the 125hp on crows and coyotes if I get a chance at one. I hope to test the 130grs up close and far away and see if the bullet will open & penetrate like I hope.

I had a few minutes to check out a powder burn rate chart and there are several powders in/around the AL15 that would seem to work well. One powder that comes to mind is AA2520 that may work well with the 130grs but until I get to a press, I'm just guesstimating.

Johnny

I have been wondering about the uses of the 130 grain speer myself. Would you feel comfortable using the 130 grain speer on fairly large deer? I would hate to see that buck of a lifetime and be armed with a bullet that wouldnt do the job. In fact, I am considering development of 2 loads. A deer/bear load and an elk/dinosaur load. For my intended purpose I have almost settled on the 150 speer and the 150 barnes. That said, I would love to see a 2800fps 130 grain speer.

I would be interested in hearing results with the 130 grain speer on deer at 307 speeds.
jim

I would be interested in hearing results with the 130 grain speer on deer at 307 speeds.



+1

I would be interested in hearing results with the 130 grain speer on deer at 307 speeds.
+1

Johnny,

As sometimes happens I lost my mind when discussing the 170-grain bullets and did not express myself very well. My fasted handloads with the 170-grain bullets chronograph 2,550 fps from the 20” barrel using both Winchester 748 and Alliant Reloder 15. There is just a little better accuracy backing off 100 fps to 2,450 fps. My favorite deer hunting load with the 170-grain Speer bullet is 40.0 grains of IMR 4064 for about 2,350 fps. The .307 Winchester with 170-grain bullets is very effective on white tail deer at velocities between 2,350 and 2,400 fps. The majority of my shots are less than 100 yards.

While all of my shots with the 130-grain Speer have been under 100-yards, I have had no difficulty with this bullet on deer weighing approximately 120-pounds or less. I generally shoot cull deer, spikes and does. “Big” deer around my hunting area run 150-pounds or less on the hoof. The largest deer I have killed in West Texas jumped through the windshield of my Chevy Blazer and weighed 173-pounds; this was also the most expensive deer I have taken.
I have seen several feral hogs of less than 200-pounds taken with the 130-grain Speer bullet with no difficulty. On two of these the shoulder was punched and while the hog was not going anywhere a second shot was required. On lung shots the 130-grain bullet performed as expected.

There are several Beartooth forum members who use the 125-grain on deer at .30-30 velocities. My experience with the 125-grain Sierra bullets on smaller critters at 2,700 fps indicates it is pretty fragile. The 125-grain Sierra bullet will kill critters up to 40 pounds pretty decisively. I have not taken anything bigger at these speeds though.

I am not clear on the 160 grain Leverevolution bullet. Did you say the Leverevolution bullet would not work in a 307 Winchester because the over-all-length would be to long?

My rifle started out life as a 30-30, then converted to a 307. I don't have a reloading manual in front of me (I am at work), but I believe a 30-30 is a little longer than a 307. Is it possible that it will work in my 307?

As sometimes happens I lost my mind and did not express myself very well, is usually what happens to me. :)


Here is a thread that covered some, a very small amount, of my findings with the 130gr Speer. I did not ever get back to testing them, and in fact I have several rounds sitting in my closet that have yet been tested. Maybe I can get to them soon.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=11920&highlight=130gr

For hogs a heart, ear or just good head shot may be the ticket with these smaller bullets. I shot a 200lb hog once for butchering with a 150grfn from a 30-30. Shot was PBR. Hog hit its backend and fell over dead. ME is around 1900ftlbs for the 150gr, I can't find any ME for teh 130gr or 150gr 307.

Johnny

[QUOTE=Taylor]I am not clear on the 160 grain Leverevolution bullet. Did you say the Leverevolution bullet would not work in a 307 Winchester because the over-all-length would be to long? QUOTE]

Taylor
Well I hope I didn’t say that! The .30-30 LeveRevolution ammo has a 2.540” OAL. The fired Federal case is about 2.027” long – on average.
The Hornady LeveRevolution bullet has about .513” sticking out of the case. The diameter just above the cannelure is .307”.

The .307 Winchester as you pointed out is about 2.015” long. With .513” outside the case you would have about a 2.520” COAL if you seat the bullet to the cannelure. If you leave it out of the case and use a Lee Factory crimp to hold it you will probably be better off. On page one of this thread I posted a picture of the LeveRevolution bullet next to some others. As you can see there is a lot of LR bullet inside the case.

Taylor,
The answer to your question about the 160 grain leverevolution bullet being too long is both yes and no. The 30/30 leverevolution bullet would fit within the overall lenght for the 307. However, the 308MX leverevolution bullet is slightly longer and could not be seated in such a way as to fit the overall length of the 307. The confusing thing is that we are talking about two different 160 grain bullets with gummy tips. WilliamIorg educated me on this in a previous post.

Of course, neither bullet is available to be reloaded at the moment. If they ever become available I hope to reload the 30/30 bullet in my 307.
Jim

I had thought they were the same bullet but the 307 case was longer than the 30/30 and therefore they shortened it to make the same bullet work. Hmm. Now the question that comes to mind is will the shorter 30/30 bullet hold up and perform at 307 velocities?

Deer round Arkansas don't get very big either. Well where I hunt they don't. When I lived in CO my dad plowed over a couple of elk hauling logs out of the mtns. You'd be surpresied what kind of damage one of those things can do.

I called back to www.cpcartridges.com to speak with Mr. Conley about the powder mixtures but he was busy so I didn't bother him. I did change my order however. I dropped the pair of 170gr bullets and pickedup another box of 130's and 150's. I know the 170's are really good bullets but there is a back field behind my house that is just begging me to shoot the crows out of it.

I got a ton of thoughts going thru my mind on new gummy bullets. Think of the cartridges that this technology might breath life back into. Maybe not from a factory offered cartridge but for reloaders its whole new ball game.

Johnny

I read the .308 Marlin Express bullet is not the same as the .30-30 LeveRevolution bullet. The .308 ME bullet has a longer ogive and the interlock belt has been moved as far forward as possible. The taper at the heel of the bullet has been trimmed to a minimum to increase bearing surface and I assume this change helps improve accuracy at the higher operating pressure.
The base of the .30-30 LeveRevolution bullet looks similar to the old Nosler solid base flat point bullet in that it has a lot of taper at the heel and reminds us of a mild boat tail. The .30-30 bullet has a rather small bearing surface.