Shooters All:

I am deeply concerned about possible damage to my rifle. This rifle was built by Borden Accuracy, so as you can imagine, I have more money than I should be spending tied up in it. The rifle is built on a modified Remington action. The barrel is by Shilen.

Here's what happened: I was at the range this past week, and testing some new ammo. Everything was going as per normal, but on this one round, the bolt closed with noticable resistance. I don't know why I didn't stop right there, but I didn't. Upon firing, I got an overly loud report, and signifigant gas from the chamber area. When I worked the bolt, I noticed that the brass was held fast to the bolt face. I then removed the bolt, and foolishly tried to free the brass from the bolt. In doing so, I broke off part of the extractor. For the next few days, I tried calling Borden Rifles. Actually talked with one person, and left two messages to have my call returned ... They never called back. After that, I took my rifle to a local smith who does very good work. My general idea was to get the extractor repaired, but the smith told me that I may have destroyed the rifle. Can you imagine my shock and dismay? ... Anyway, the smith said he needed to magna flux the rifle to see if it has been ruined. A visual shows nothing out of the ordinary, but the smith said it may be full of tiny cracks and fissures ... Needless to say, I am worried sick, and was wondering if anyone on here has had a similar experience, and was the rifle ruined? I really don't know how much pressure occured on that round, but in 35-40 years of handloading, I've maybe only ever had a half dozen or less of blown primers ... Does anyone care to take a guess at my odds for an undamaged rifle?


Thanks All,
Ridge

PS ... I ain't real happy with Borden Rifles either ... Took them nearly 3 years to build the thing, and all thru that experience, and now this, I feel quite ignored.

Your gunsmith is being careful. He does not want to be responsible for your hurting yourself if you've stressed the barrel to the point it might come apart if shot again.

I've seen some pretty heavy overloads put thru remingtons and Savages also without damage to the gun so you may be alright.

When you have a cartridge that closes hard in a bolt action often it means it hasn't been sized down enough for the chamber. Sometimes it means the case was to long (untrimmed cases grow in length) and can get long enough that the forward end of the case jams into the forcing cone which ups the pressure a bunch when fired.

Another problem is custom barrels can have extremly tight chambers (an aid to accuracy) and a case not sized exactly to this chamber can exibit the tightness of closing you experienced.

All in all I'd sure pursue contacting the maker of the rifle for his make on what happened.

Hope everything works out ok for you

From what you describe, hes worried about the action...locking lugs took the strain and he can't easily visually check the inside of the action. Magnaflux would show cracks that the eye can't normally detect.

I'd doubt the action is ruined...that can happen, but unless the metal is a bit on he hard/brittle side, actions tend to set back (bend) rather than crack....but for peace of mind, and if the charge is realistic, having that test done won't harm anything.

Bolt can be checked and measured, new extractor fitted, headspace checked, and the chamber measured for expansion.

Weren't wrong to remove the stuck case..that extractor was busted, the case was holding the parts together. Extractors are hard and on the brittle side...they do tend to crack/snap...usually actions aren't.

From what you describe, hes worried about the action...locking lugs took the strain and he can't easily visually check the inside of the action. Magnaflux would show cracks that the eye can't normally detect.

I'd doubt the action is ruined...that can happen, but unless the metal is a bit on he hard/brittle side, actions tend to set back (bend) rather than crack....but for peace of mind, and if the charge is realistic, having that test done won't harm anything.

Bolt can be checked and measured, new extractor fitted, headspace checked, and the chamber measured for expansion.

Weren't wrong to remove the stuck case..that extractor was busted, the case was holding the parts together. Extractors are hard and on the brittle side...they do tend to crack/snap...usually actions aren't.
OT but Happy Birthday Ribbonstone!

OT but Happy Birthday Ribbonstone!
Thank you.
Taking the day off to work in the shop...just becasue that seems the best thing to do with "my" day.

Ridgerunner, I hope it all works out. I was cringing reading this. JP

Thanks for the input guys ... I feel a little better now.

faucettb: Yes, it was the case that was the culprit. It was a new Lapua case that I had failed to resize. Looking back on things, I recalled what had hapened ... I had set 5 of these cases aside for reloading a known accurate load. Somewhere around that time, a number of distractions occured ... phone ringing, etc. I then primed and reloaded them. Rule broken: Never reload amidst distractions or cluttered components. My bad, but maybe sharing this will help others avoid this mistake.

ribbonstone: Thanks for making me feel a little better. After breaking the extractor, I kind of figured that extractors were of a certain hardness ... being different from the bolt/receiver metals.

Thanks JP ... Yeah, I'm kind'a on pins and needles waiting to hear from my smith.

In general, yes I'm glad that my smith is taking the necessary precautions ... I'll follow up on this when I get the word.

Ridge

You're right in that the unsized case may be the primary culprit. There's another consideration, though. It's entirely possible the box of bullets you were using contained one or more of larger size that wasn't detected by the factory or you upon loading. A far out chance, but it does happen at times.

The case may have been overlength, also. This causes a tight fit and jams the case/bullet in the chamber where there's no chance for the neck to expand into the chamber wall to release the bullet, thereby building excess pressure.

Sorry to hear of the broken extractor, but your gunsmith is a good one if he wants to do the MT on the action.

Why would it matter if the case was unsized? It would explain it being hard to chamber but if it did chamber, why would that cause a pressure excursion?

I assume the neck was at least tight enough to hold the bullet in place.

Am thinking that those case necks might have gotten a bit thick....if it chambers tightly, when the powder ignites, there isn't enough "slack" to cleanly release the bullet. Considering that most custom builders pride themselves on tight chamber necks, might be worth it to measure your loaded rounds (diameter over the seated bullet) looking for the "odd balls".

Kdub & ribbonstone:

Dang, you guys are good! ... You've nailed it.

Prior to loading, I had checked the OAL, and it all checked out at around .012 short of trim length which is listed @ 1.760".

After my woes, I had gotten out the comparator, and checked headspace. This measurement was close enough to tolerance that I thought maybe the one that ran hot on me was due to excessive length at the shoulder. In other words, the oddball.

After reading your posts, I got the mike out, and measured the OD of a few loaded rounds in IMI brass ... Yield: .229 as measured across a seated bullet. Next I miked several pieces of this new Lapua brass at the mouth ... Yield: .031, with some measuring nearly .032. Next I seated a few bullets in the new brass, and it went up roughly another .0005. Looks like I'm in for some neck trimming.

This rifle does indeed have a tight chamber.

I fully believe that was the cause.

Thanks gentlemen, Ridgerunner

The one rifle I partly blew up was a .243.

Had made some .243's out of .308's for another rifle...neck reamed them and they worked just fine in that rifle. (Today, 99% of shooters would outside turn them...but back then, neck reaming was more common.) My mistake was in not checking the new gun's chamber...which was a lot tighter than the one the cases were made for.

When the bullet won't release cleanly, it delays the increas in volume...a normal shot depends on this increase in volume to balance the rapid rise in pressure that happens in the first inches of bullet ravel...without it, pressure rises much too quickly.

In my case, I got a gas dump from a wildly expanded primer pocket....not only broke the extractor, it removed it.

ribbonstone:

In your last post, was the extractor the only damage that occured to the rifle?

BTW, this whole thing is starting to add up ... ie: In looking back on the event itself, it seemed that all of the excess pressure came straight rearward.

ribbonstone:

In your last post, was the extractor the only damage that occured to the rifle?

BTW, this whole thing is starting to add up ... ie: In looking back on the event itself, it seemed that all of the excess pressure came straight rearward.

In this case, that was the only part that needed replacing...was lucky. Did have some gas seep back through the action and spray me with fouling and oil, but no brass bits and other than fright, no harm done.

ribbonstone:

In your last post, was the extractor the only damage that occured to the rifle?

BTW, this whole thing is starting to add up ... ie: In looking back on the event itself, it seemed that all of the excess pressure came straight rearward.

Unless the chamber ruptures, forward or backwards is about the only way the "pressure" can go.

What do the necks of the fired cases measure?

KenK, "What do the necks of the fired cases measure?"

Ken: I only shot a few of these Lapuas before "the incident"
They measure @ .030, which is on the average of .0015 smaller than the new cases that I have on hand.

Edit: My mistake, that fired case measurement should read .230

I don't guess Borden put a neck size on the barrel after the caliber marking did they? Something like ".230 NK"

No Ken, actually Borden supplied and rebuilt the action. From there, the action was sent to Shilen. Shilen built, chambered, and mounted the barrel to the action. From there, it went back to Borden where the rifle was finished.

There are no such esoteric markings on the barrel.

Assuming the rifle is ok, my smith is going to make up a chamber cast for me.

No Ken, actually Borden supplied and rebuilt the action. From there, the action was sent to Shilen. Shilen built, chambered, and mounted the barrel to the action. From there, it went back to Borden where the rifle was finished.

There are no such esoteric markings on the barrel.

Assuming the rifle is ok, my smith is going to make up a chamber cast for me.

The chamber cast will go a long way to telling you what you need as far as neck sizer dies. Redding makes sizing dies with interchangable necksize collets and you can get one that will fit the chamber. If you don't alread have one you may want to get a neck turner also to keep the necks the correct thickness.

You say this is a tacticle twenty. That's an interesting cartridge. I just got a 204 Ruger and sure love that little gun. So far it's only killed a couple of crows but I might take a run up on the praire this morning if I can get my son out of bed. We've got a couple of inches of fresh snow and that always brings the coyotes out.

Yessir faucettb, I just ordered a neck turner yesterday ... I've been wanting to get one all along, and this incident sealed it. I will probably be going with the neck bushing die as well. I currently have the regular Redding full size and seating dies. I also have the Redding Tactical Twenty form die.

Up until I bought the Lapua brass, I never had any pressure problems. I had always loaded the formed and fired IMI brass.

I'm sure you'll enjoy the .204 and find it to be an absolute "death ray" on coyotes. Coyote hunting is the primary usage for my rifle. I also like to "surprise" a long range crow every now and then.

All: BTW, Borden Accuracy called today, so please don't pay to much attention to what I posted earlier. I dislike seeing negative posts, (mine included) so I'll try to soften the blow with another truth ... They built me a freaky accurate rifle!

There, I feel better now ... Ridge