If you were to live in the mountains or Alaska and had $400 to buy one scope for a high powered rifle, and that one scope had to last, what brand would you buy? No warranties, or service plans. Just ruggedness and optical quality.

All of my scopes that currently reside on my rifles are Leupolds, save on Bushnell Elite 4200. All of my hunting is done in the mountains of Alaska, except for the wayward trip to Africa and the hopeful plan to hunt sheep in Asia.

Most of the scopes when I bought them were less than $400, but I suspect the comparable model today is more (VX III). I've never had an issue with any of the Leupolds. My future scope purchases are likely to be the same unless something in Leupold's quality changes.

All of my scopes that currently reside on my rifles are Leupolds, save on Bushnell Elite 4200. All of my hunting is done in the mountains of Alaska, except for the wayward trip to Africa and the hopeful plan to hunt sheep in Asia.

Most of the scopes when I bought them were less than $400, but I suspect the comparable model today is more (VX III). I've never had an issue with any of the Leupolds. My future scope purchases are likely to be the same unless something in Leupold's quality changes.

Well I have one Leupold and no complaints. 2 Burris' as well and Weaver. I am trying to decide on which brand to buy next. So far, this poll is pretty one-sided.

To be honest, I like the Bushnell Elite almost as well as the Leupold. It is a little heavier, though. It is comparable brightness, clarity, FOV and adjustment tracking. It is longer in the tube and weighs more. All in all a very good scope.

The Zeiss Conquest is a good scope as well, but is more blocky than the Leupold, as the American Series from Swarovski. Either of those are a bit more than the $400 price you mentioned though.

It's just hard to beat Leupold's brightness, clarity, adjustments and tracking, ruggedness, and weight along in their price range.

I haven't tried the newer Nikon or Burris scopes.

Well I have one Leupold and no complaints. 2 Burris' as well and Weaver. I am trying to decide on which brand to buy next. So far, this poll is pretty one-sided.
I went totally against the grain on this one. I bought a ruger #1 and put a Nikon 6.5 x 20x44mil on the top and love it. I own 2 Leupolds and I won't sell ,but the Nikon is just so clear... As long as I could reload I think I would stay with this one set up for my only scope and gun. P.S. midway has a sale on these scopes untill Jan 31st . Q-harley :)

Man, I've got a Heinz 57 mix in my vaults, but the most predominent are the Leupold VXII's, Burris (old models), and Nikons. Hard to find a truely US made scope anymore - even Leupold is importing the cheaper line of their optics. Burris supplies the US made parts for assembly offshore. Japanese made scopes still have pretty high quality (Weaver and Nikon).

Man, I've got a Heinz 57 mix in my vaults, but the most predominent are the Leupold VXII's, Burris (old models), and Nikons. Hard to find a truely US made scope anymore - even Leupold is importing the cheaper line of their optics. Burris supplies the US made parts for assembly offshore. Japanese made scopes still have pretty high quality (Weaver and Nikon).

So where is Burris glass ground now? US, Japan, Phillipines?

I have no idea where their glass comes from.

If Jackfish would jump in here, we all might learn a few things.

If you throw optical quality into the equation, I just can't vote for Leupold. They just can't compete in that area any more, and their competitors are now just as durable as they are.

I went with Nikon...great glass, good durability and sensible design...at a good price.

I would probably go with Burris/Pentax next, or a Weaver Grand Slam.

- Well...Since you set the parameters, I did my best to stay within them...
- And - I'd go with a fixed-power Leupold....W/A HEAVY-Duplex-Reticle.
- [However...I'd be pretty upset if I had to live the rest of my life with one[1]$400.00-Scope.]
The scope would be mounted in TALLEY/QD's...
...AND - I would absolutely have a squared-away set of 100yd-zeroed back-up irons on the rifle.

Leupold is the glass I've had the most experience with since I bought my first one at the 29Palms-PX many years ago. Before then...Well, I still have "all-the-others"...[even the broken-ones]...In a footlocker in my parents basement in Iowa. They are a reminder of times when I made less money...and didn't have the experience, knowledge or patience to save for quality-glass. I am witness to the manipulation, operation, and testing of anywhere between 100-200 bolt-rifles annually on various formats...and Leupold is the glass I've seen the least amount of problems with.

A few have said nice things about Nikons. They are clear, but the ones I shot have very narrow eye relief ranges. If your eye is not dead centered, the pic gets black. The Leupolds and Burris' in the same price range are are more forgiving. I'll qualify that by saying its been 18 months since I have tested a Nikon. Maybe their newest models are better in the eye relief category.

I have heard the newer Burris' are not as good as the older ones. I have two FF IIs from 2-3 years back. No complaints with them.

can you get a kales for 400?

Well the question has a problem. I would pick a different scope for the mountains than I would pick for Alaska. I choose Leupold because of the cost limit.

Frank

Well the question has a problem. I would pick a different scope for the mountains than I would pick for Alaska. I choose Leupold because of the cost limit.

Frank

Well please educate me, which would you pick for the mountains, and which for Alaska?

Well please educate me, which would you pick for the mountains, and which for Alaska?


I was wondering about that myself. Pick the best scope for the toughest conditions and it will do for both. No need for two different brands.

i was going to vote for the zeiss conquest but it doesnt fit into your parameters so i went for the second best in my opinion which is the nikon ive got three of them and the only way i would trade them for is another zeiss

I voted Leupold, although I don't own a $400 scope. I have about all of the brand of scopes mentioned. My Bushnells are not the Elite. More Simmons than others (gun trader's friend). My latest purchase was a Swift. I am impressed with it's optics. For what it's worth. Good luck.

George

I have heard good things about Swift scopes. The price sure is right. $165 for a Swift Premier 2x7x40 or 3x9x40.

Maybe the smart thing to do with this $400 scenario is to buy 2 of those. One on the gun and a back-up!

I have used several different brands of scopes over the years. I stock the brands in my shop that I have been the most pleased with from personal use. I carry Zeiss, Leupold and Burris. I will order others upon customer request. When a customer asks my advice on a scope, I try to find out how he plans on using it. Hunting or target shooting. What cal rifle. What ranges will he be likely to use it at. Ect. After I learn a little more about the intended use of it and what price range they want to stay in I will make a suggestion as to what I feel will work best for them. I hope to steer them in the right direction and make them happy with their purchase. If I do my job properly, they will be happy. Most likely they will come back and see me again when they want another scope for another rifle. Leupold has the BEST customer service of any company out there that I have had dealing's with. Burris is a VERY close second right behind them. Zeiss sadly has slow customer service / warrantly repair. Great glass and very seldom needed repairs, but they are slow to get the scope back to the customer. These brands are nothing but my personal picks. I personally only own Leupolds and Zeiss. That only means that for my personal needs and uses that I personally like them the best. Someone else may have different needs and uses and like another brand much better. Thats fine because IF YOU are buying the scope for yourself, YOU are the only one that has to be pleased with it. Buy what you want and think you will be happy with. If we all liked the same thing, they would only need to make one brand. Life is just not quite that simple. Buy and use what you like and don't worry about what someone else thinks about them. Its your money that is paying for them and you are going to want to be happy with what you end up with.

Although i hardly consider myself an expert I own Leupold, Nikon, Weaver, Redfield, Bushnell, Springfield and Simmons.

One rifle has a Leupold VX2 and I have three others with Monarchs and a Buckmaster. In my opinion the Nikons don't have to take a back seat the Leupold. They are all clear, good light gathering, positive adjustments (the Leupold don't click) and all are under $400.

When i was younger I was advised by a much wiser man, "You want to spend at least as much on glass as you did the rifle". Seemed extreme at the time but I see the wisdom now.

Buy and use what you like and don't worry about what someone else thinks about them. Its your money that is paying for them and you are going to want to be happy with what you end up with.

Bryant. Nice post. But the point of the thread was to get the opinion of experts like yourself on what they would have on their rifle if they could only pick one, and it had to LAST.

I am going to be doing some serious hunting in the western mountains in the next 10-15 years. When I'm up in the rocks and elements, I want to have the toughest scope available mounted. The only parameter I set is $400. Because I am pretty sure you can get some tough ones at that price.

Likewise, if I get deployed to Afghanistan again (and I pray not) I will likely put my own optics on my rifle. That place is even rougher than the rockies.

So I am looking for the most dependable brand. And good clarity is important too.

Hi Bird Dog II. Flat out answer to your question. Leupold. In the price range you have stated to work with I would suggest a VX-II in 4X12X40MM. They can be bought for that money if your local dealer likes you and is willing to give you a good deal. For just a few dollars more, you can get the same scope with what is called the long range reticial in it. This is a standard dueplex cross hair with ballistic dots on the bottom post. Settle in on your rifle and the cal. of your choice. Pick the ammo that you like and shoots well in your rifle. From a bench, firing at honest measured ranges, find the exact yardage distance that your bullet hits while using each of the dots on the bottom post. I like to set the crosshair dead on at 100 yards. Depending on cal and bullet weight, ect. your exact point of impact will be easily used in the field without having to do the "kentucky windage holdover". This will give you a much greater probiality of 1st round hit on your target. Again different cal. and bullet weight and barrel length will have an impact on what yardage your dots will be zeroed in at. The VX-II is a very good scope, that said I will tell you that I like a little larger scope than that for my own personal use. Not that I have all the answers, its just what I have found that I like the best. This won't stay within the budget that you have givin me to work with UNLESS you can find a good clean used one for sale. I like the VX-III in 4.5X14X50MM. They gather an amazing amount of light in dim conditions. I like the wider field of view from the 50MM lens. On the down side to this. If you plan on hunting on horseback in the mountains you may not like the 50MM lens. I have found that the 50MM lens won't fit very well in most saddle scabbards. Very hard to get them in and out and it will usually pull the lens cover caps off the end of the scope when you try to get it out of the scabbard. I am not afraid of a used Leupold scope. I will try to trade for them anytime someone wants to offer them. The warranty is lifetime, not just the 1st owner. You may be hunting in a different type of terrain than I do. you may be shooting a shorter range rifle that I like to use. If so, just use a little smaller size of scope. I have a little differend idea about the "best" brush rifle. Rather than trying to shoot through a tree, I like to have a good enough piece of glass on my rifle and have it zeroed in close enough to be able to fine a small hole through the brush and send the bullet through that little opening to my target. What may be right for me may not work well for you and vise-versa. Its the old what is better, a chevy or a ford...ask a lot of people and you will recieve a lot of diffrent answers. Some will like and automatic while others will only want a stick shift. I'm not trying to sidestep your question, or confuse you with a long answer. Just trying to explain that there are a lot of diffrent ideas on what is the best. My personal opninon may not be all that important. Neither the Govener or the President have ever called me and asked for advice...lol. I will be happy to discuss this more with you if you would like. Starting with the rifle style and cal. that you like. Maybe we could narrow it down a little better for how you intend to use it and what ranges you are looking at. One last thing, THANK YOU for your service to our country. I also hope you don't get called back overseas again either. If you do, Please be careful and make it back ok. Thanks again, Steve.

Thx, Bryant. I hunt everything from bow range woods Whitetails to plains Antelope. Normally .30-06 or 7 Mag although I would like a .375 someday for bigger stuff. 85% of the game I have killed with rifles has been with scopes set on 2x or 3x. I always start low and adjust up if there is time. Usually I just center the crosshairs while on low power and shoot.

Bird Dog II sounds like you hunt areas like I do. Ifine the low setting of 4.5 to be easy to use up close. I always leave my scope on that setting. If I need the higher power setting I usually have time to adjust the scope for it. I favor the ajdustable objective over the fixed. I call this "The poor man's range finder". If I am taking a long shot and have a good steady rest, I can fine tune the focus on the objective till I get the sharpest, clearest imiage of my target. I then take a look at where the yardage is setting on the afjustment ring. This will give me a pretty good idea of the distance that I am shooting. Sometimes distances can be deceptive. I have also found that any seting much over 14 power has only limited uses. Due to either ground / heat mirage when using higher power scopes I would more often than not be turning them back down to the 12 to 14 range. I have owned and used a lot of scopes over the years, but then only ones that I personally own now are either 4.5X14X50MM or 4.5X14X44MM. Not saying that is the answer for everyone, just that that is the size that seems to work best for me. As for suggestions, on the 30-06, 3.5X10X40MM or 4X12X40MM. On the 7Mag, it has enough range to support the 4.5X14 either 40 or 50MM. At least a 4X12X40MM. 375 is a little different. Don't think I would go much over a 2X7 or a 3X9 there. Does this sound like what you are thinking also?

Given those limits I had to pick Leupold. I haven't used all of the scope brands listed under the topic scenario but I have used several. Certainly there are better optics out there than Leupold in the $400 range, but for one scope to use over many hunts without fail I think Leupolds have been my most reliable.

Over the past 30 years I've had to send 2 Leupolds back for service along with scopes by Bushnell, Burris, and Pentax. Haven't had my Nikon or Weavers long enough to be fair and haven't tried Swift, Sightron, or Simmons. Leupold service has been top notch with mixed results from the other brands.

I have a Leupold M8 3x and a 2-7x33 VariX-II that have been beat up and put away wet many many times without fail. The 2 I sent back were a 1.5-5 VariX-III for a frozen windage screw and a 2.5-8 VariX-III for a broken reticle.

As you can tell by the model numbers these are all older scopes and I don't have any of the newer models to compare them with. Don't see a need for new ones really.

Rat Trap, Seems like you summed up nicely what needed to be said when you stated that "The model numbers are older scopes. Don't see the need to replace them". Leupolds will usually last as long as you need them. If it ain't broke, Don't fix it. It costs a little more to rig up a rifle / scope combo correctly the 1st time if it is done right, but the need to change or update will often times cost more in the long run than it would have to set it up right in the beginning. Steve

Bryant on the low power-high power question. I just have always preferred low for hunting. I got a Weaver 6x fixed for my new Savage .30-06 last year. I wish I had gotten the 4x instead. Problem is, I shot the best groups of my life with that rifle and now I don't want to change a thing! But the 6x limits my hunting a bit here in Missouri. A 6x fixed is fine out west I guess though.

I think a few would meet the needs within the price but I think I'd go with the Leupold since that's what I have the most experience with. The Weaver Grand Slam is a pretty good one too.

Bird DogII I have also tried the fixed 6 power. Just can't focus them clear enough up close in timber. Also in low light like the very early morning or late evening it just won't let enough light in for my tastes. I used the Leupold 6.5X20 in both 40MM and 50MM. Found that I seldom used the higher powers and the 6.5 on the low end was just to much. I settled on the 4.5X14 several years ago. For me, and the way I use them this seems to be the best combo. I'm sure that this dosen't fit everyone's needs, but it works well for me. Were I ever to go back to a fixed power scope it would be a 4X. I just don't get a lot of good out of anything smaller and it will work in very close areas while still being good at a reasonable distance. I really can't tell much difference between a 4X and a 4.5X on the low side. I like to use my hunting rifle for varmits also. A crow at 200 to 300 yards takes a pretty good piece of glass to keep the crosshair's small enough and to see enough of the crow to tell where you are aiming. If you can regularly take a crow at those distances, something the size of a deer is easy. I actually own fewer different cal's of rifles to hunt with than almost everyone that I know. I use a 220 Swift and a 264 Win Mag. Thats it. I still have a soft spot for a 300 H&H, may trade for another one someday. May seem odd for someone that owns a gunstore to be that limited on choices, but I like those 2 cal.'s better than anything else out there. I'm not saying that this would work for everyone, but it is just what I like and use personally.

Bryant - A good friend who I grew up with had a Dad who owed a nice .300 H&H. I remember being about 12 and three of us boys snuck it out to fire one shot each. We were scared to death to shoot it...those big long shells. I went first. Heck it kicked less than my little single shot 20 ga with 3" magnums or slugs did. It was a beautiful gun. Johnny's dad would have tanned our hides if he'd caught us shooting it.

On the 6x Weaver on my Savage .30-06, I may have to do some re-scoping to deer hunt with it next year.

-It may go onto my .22-250 Encore Barrel.
-The 4.5x14 Burris on the .22-250 may go on the 7mm WSM.
-And the 3x9 Burris that's on the 7mm WSM to the Savage.

I kind of hate to do all that. The .22-250 is a tack driver and the 4.5x14 has a fine plex that is great for it. I currently only use it for punching paper and plinking though. A friend of mine who's recovering from shoulder surgery did use it to kill a deer this year. I guess the 6x would work fine for the plinking and such.

I may just use the old Model 70 .30-06 for deer next year. It has a 3x9 Leupold. It's just that I have killed many deer with it and want to get the light composite Savage into the mix. I used the 7mm WSM this year and it made a ridiculous hole in the 8 point I shot. It's a little much for woods hunting.

If you have a set up that is shooting exceptional I would never touch it, unless you have changed things and been satisfied before. I think some arrangements of scope and rifle are magic and once gone they never come back. I have a 30.06 Rem 760 that is like that now. I would never touch it unless something went wrong.

Bryant Gun,

Just joined the Forum today and would like to say that the experience I had with the Zeiss service dept.couldn`t have been better.Last fall I was sighting in my 30/06 with my 4x Zeiss Diatal which I purchased about 20 or so years ago.It for some reason didn`t want to move zero and then in a very erratic fashion.Looking through the front of the scope it appeared the vertical crosshair was loose at the bottom.Since the US Zeiss sales /service center is 35-40 miles from home I decided to take it to them as I was curious to see the operation and I would have purchased commensurate shipping insurance offsetting the price of gas.I left the scope with them at about 1:00PM on Friday and was told that depending on what parts it might need that it might have to go to Germany-in which case it could be 4-6 weeks.That didn`t happen and UPS attemped to deliver the scope back to me the following Tuesday.I wasn`t there and a signature was required for delivery,but I was there the next day and the scope was fixed.Zeiss/Titmus Optical appeared to have a better than first class operation and I dare say that the Germany trips are for the hardest cases.By the way,my cost was -0-.I am not attempting to argue,just stating MY experience.

I own 3 scopes at present,the 4x Zeiss,a 3x9 Zeiss,and a Leupold 3x.All were purchased in the 80s and the only problem I have had was with the Zeiss but I feel that their service was superlative.I did not enter a choice on the poll but I likely would have entered "other".

Thanks for listening,
John

If you have a set up that is shooting exceptional I would never touch it, unless you have changed things and been satisfied before. I think some arrangements of scope and rifle are magic and once gone they never come back. I have a 30.06 Rem 760 that is like that now. I would never touch it unless something went wrong.

Well that's is my inclination as well. But I bought the Savage Stevens to take over most of my woods and brush hunting. My Model 70 30-06 took quite a spill out of a tree two years ago as I was lowering it and the sling snap came undone. I got lucky in that the gun hit flat (not barrel first or stock first)It did ruin the Simmons Atech that was on it and scatched up the stock badly. That winter I totally sanded and refinished the stock and put a new Leupold on it. I'll still use it, but some of the trees we have stands in are real difficult to get in and out of and we do a few drives in very brushy areas. Wooden guns take a beating on those hunts.

The same winter I got the Stevens 200 flyer in the mail for $199. So I got one. Weaver/Simmons had replaced the Atech at cost with a compareable scope of my choice. I chose the Weaver 6x. Now that Stevens with the 6x just happens to be the tighest shooting bolt gun I own. It will shoot legit 1/2" groups with a pet load. But I find the 6x scope to be not a good fit for the woods. So that is my problem.

Much ado, I think that we may be misunderstanding each other a little. I am NOT unhappy with the quality of repairs or the cost of repairs from Zeiss. I currently personally own 3 Zeiss scopes that have worked flawless for me. I have sold many of them to my customers that have been totally happy with them. I have called Zeiss on two different times about a complaint from a customers scope. Both times they have sent a UPS pickup order for them. Total shipping costs $0.00. So far, excellent service. The problem is the 1st scope took a little over a month to get back from Zeiss to my customer. Not real good, but tolorable. The 2nd scope was picked up by a UPS call tag issued from Zeiss in mid to late October of 2006. This scope was finally returned to my shop for my customer THIS week ( FEB 2007 ). This was after several calls to Zeiss asking about the status of this scope. Both scopes had the same problem, would not stay zeroed in / would not adjust in a positive manner. Total cost of repairs to both of these scopes, INCLUDING shipping, nothing, nada, zip zilch, zero. I have NO complaints with the Zeiss warranty other than the length of time to get repairs made. Appx. 2 weeks seems to be the normal time for both Leupold and Burris. that is a lot better than a anywhere from 1 month to nearly 4 months. That is the problem that I have as far as rating their service work. I still like the Zeiss scopes very much, and will continue to stock and sell them. I will also continue to use them personally. Maybe I will have better luck with the next one that has to be sent in for repair. I hope so, as I think they really make a VERY good scope. Maybe this will explain my view point to you a little better. I can see where you had excellent srevice and would feel as strongly about it as you do. Hope you can see my point of view and understand how I and my customers feel about it. Maybe next time, I and my customer will be able to enjoy the fast turn around time that you have recieved.

Dead Mouse


On scopes, I did pick leupold; it has always been top drawer. However, The Sightron is a very good choice and Burris Signature series is fine. Nikon Monarch I had was good but I did not own the rifle long enough to know how it holds up, my friends do like it.

I would say the Burris Fullfield is probably a best buy, since it sells for quite best than the Leupold Vari-XII. Bushnell Elite series are also good quality scopes, despite their basement model’s reputation.

I have mostly Leupold and a few old quality Redfield. I would say Weaver was a good value, but I do not know about the new ones.

Isn't this the HARDEST question in shooting to answer ?

I mean to pick one calibre for life is a tough one but one scope !!!

If it was one scope for life - I'd have to vote for Iron sights.

Only one fixed power.... it'd have to be a 4x with a German #4 reticle.

Only one variable to do everything .... it would have to be a 1.5-6 x 42 with a duplex recticle.

But as accurate rifles are the name of the game, the specific calibre, designated use and budget are considerations.

I looked at this thread because I am sitting here wondering which scope to buy next for my 'coming' .17HRM CZ 453E.

Of all the scopes I have tried I curently have kept mounted:

Meopta 6 x 42 1995

Khales 4 x 28 vintage circa 1951 (I think)

Khales 4 x 32 1970's

{The top three are all in steel}

Leupold VXIII 2.5-8x36 2000 ish

Tasco World Class Plus 4 x 44 1993

Tasco World Class Plus 6 x 44 1993

I'd buy another Meopta as it is excellent and my personal best for Low Light conditions, really clear optics etc. It is a tad heavy and long. I have been considering the Meostar. I am sure the Meopta's would fall in the price range in the USA.

I had a Bausch & Lomb Elite 4000 once which made me sell two rifles before I realised it was the scope so I haven't tried a Bushnell since, though I have heard good reports on 'em.

I have used a Swarovoski and it was clearly the best scope made - period - but too bloody expensive.

The Leupold has me confused. I bought it because it was the 'perfect scope' for my Winchester Custom Featherweight Classic in 7mm-08 Rem - mounted it in Coentrols and it really looks the goods. I have no doubt it is a great scope but it just deosn't seem as 'bright' as the European scopes and not as quick to the 'eye'. I would still buy another one though.

The standard Tasco's seem pretty average to me but the World Class Plus versions were bloody good and are passing the test of time. Best budget scope for sure.

The Burris 'cattledog' has some nice looking scopes in it so I may even try one of them.

So the end result is -I will keep an eye on this thread and learn from the experts and the masses.

On Ya....