I picked these up today at one of the local gunshops, he does not do any reloading nor does he stock any reloading products. I noticed them on his "junk shelf" it is just a crap load of tools and other gun widigets and watnots. I asked him how much he wanted for them he said 10 bucks. So i figgured what the heck and now i have a few questions. My experence with reloading dies has been strictly Lee, these are RCBS dies. They appear to be newer but the box is kinda old. There appears to be no die to flair the case mout but once I took the sizing die apart the shaft appears to have a flare on it i am guesing this die is supposto flair the case to or it could do nothing at all, it would make sence because the shaft appears to be adjustiable. :confused: One of the other dies has the markings Size #1 and a 68. There is no shaft in this it is hollow allthe way through but there is threds in the top on the insid of it which makes me think that is it actually a sizing die with the decapping pin/shaft missing but it appears that it could be a check or crimp die of some kind. The Seater plug says Seat #3 on it it also has the marking 68 on it. I am thinking that the Dye that I know is a sizing die for sure may be an odd ball. I am realy confused can somebody please help clarify what in the world this is.

The box may not be from the actual dies. also the seater plug is for wad cutters where can I get a seater plug for RN bullets?

Thanks

one more of the shaft

I really can't see much in those pictures. The "68" refers to the year of manufacture. The sizing die #1 is a steel die, meaning you'd have to lube all the cases first and then clean them of the lube later.

I think you are missing a die body, the one for the shaft. If you think about it, you cannot flare a case inside the sizing die - how would you get it back out?

In a three-die set for straight-wall handguns rounds, the first die usually sizes only. The #2 die decaps and flares, and the third die is for bullet seating. Your box is labeled WC, which means it is for wadcutter bullets. Rcbs could supply you with the missing die body and a seating stem for roundnose bullets, but you'd still be stuck with a steel die set and the hassle of lubing cases.

Me? I'd try to get a refund based on the missing die body.

It appears that you have a 45ACP sizing die,that would be full length.Also a 45ACP seating die.And probably an expander decapper rod for the 45ACP;all made in 1968.
Frank

Cool. I gues the 10 bucks was worth it :D

Thanks, so now I have to figgure out if I am going to use them or store them. Do dies like this have any collectors value? Just intrested I dont think I am going to sell them.

Cool. I gues the 10 bucks was worth it :D

Thanks, so now I have to figgure out if I am going to use them or store them. Do dies like this have any collectors value? Just intrested I dont think I am going to sell them.


That's how RCBS made their dies back then...the sizer doesn't do anything but size, the expander has the decapping assembly atached to the bottom, and the seater seats and crimps. Would be steel dies, not carbide, so you'll lube your cases before sizing, but they'll work just fine.

Good news is (1) it's nearly impossible to stcik a case in that open top sizing die...if you do, you just drop a rod down from the top and beat it out (2) you can expand and deprime filthy brass without sizing, which people who tumble brass often find an advantage.

The cardboard box dates it to 1968 or thereabouts, as my first dies were in the cardboard box and that's when I started reloading. Pic from the manual. BTW, I ruined the .45 ACP sizer on nickel cases.

Bye
Jack

It appears that you have a 45ACP sizing die,that would be full length.Also a 45ACP seating die.And probably an expander decapper rod for the 45ACP;all made in 1968.
Frank
I think so too. Missing the die body for the expander/decapper. Whether RCBS will send you one for free is unknown. You could contact RCBS customer service and explain what happened when you bought a used set of dies. Worst case scenario is they will charge you for the missing parts but the tradeoff is that you will have a set of working dies. Doubt that these dies have any collector value, they show up from time to time on ebay. You could go back to that gunshop and rummage through that clearance bin again and perhaps come up with the part.

Check the threads on the decapper/flaring stem. Any hollow die body with those same internal threads will work with it.

Having worked for RCBS in the era these dies were made I can tell you that the die set could be either complete, or a bushing is missing for the sizing die.

As above, the year of manufacture is 1968 and the box is proper for that time period. The die marked #1 Sizer is just that, the sizer die. The one marked #3 Seat is the seat/crimp die, and the third, with the plug marked RCBS .45 ACP is the expander die. If there is a decapping pin on the expander plug you have full die set, or if there is a threaded/split shank with a hole lenghtwise that is where the de-cap pin goes. It was around this time that they went away from the dcapper on the expander, if that is what you have the end of the plug inside the die will be smooth and rounded. If the latter is the case, then the decapper belongs in the size die. There shopuld be a cylindrical bushing threaded inside 1/4x28, and outside 9/16x18. That bushing screws into the threads into the top of the sizer die and the de-cap rod you have then screws into the inside of the bushing. The knurled nut on the threaded stem is to lock the de-cap rod adjustment. The bushing also is knurled on the top.

1968 was close to the first year that RCBS used a numeric date code, before that there was a single letter code which designated the date. If I recall the letter P was the last letter code used, but that may be in error.

The die set is complete, as near as I can tell. You can tell if anything is missing by checking the diagram I posted. You can get the decapping pin and bushing for the sizer die that Alk mentioned. Some progressive presses drop powder though a hollow expander so you have to decap with the sizer on them.

I have a .303 British neck sizer die dated 65.

Bye
Jack

There is always something new to be learned here.

I have a RCBS .45 ACP 4 die set (separate taper crimp die) dated '68. It is original, complete and still being used.

I have an expander die that carries an expander/decapper rod in it exactly like the one in the picture. The expander die body is made of a material that appears to be a high quality aluminum as it is light for its' size and non-magnetic. The expander/decapper rod is threaded directly into the die body, adjusted and locked with a lock ring.

I removed the expander/decapper rod and attempted to thread it into the sizer die. There is no way this will work on my die set as the expander portion of the rod is much larger than the threaded hole in top of the sizer die.

It's possible that an expander/decapper rod bushing meant to be attached to the sizer die could be missing from zapzoo's die set, however as rocky raab pointed out, why would anyone attempt to expand in a sizer die? The expander/decapper rod would have to extend beyond the die body in order to do this. Maybe I just don't get it.

If I am seeing his photos correctly, he has #1 and #3, but not #2. The last photo showing the end of the expander, labeled .45 ACP, lets you see the knurled ring used to fix its position in the #2 body, but the #2 body itself is missing. He needs a blank die with 7/16x14 standard outside thread bored out and threaded inside for the expander. I wondered if the body from a Lee universal expander or one of their universal decappers would fit? We would need to know the expander stem thread spec to figure it out?

unclenick,

RCBS dies have no #2 marked die body, it is a universal expander body. Due to the diameter of the expander plug the lock ring for it is only about 1/8" smaller than the die body itself. If you look closely there is a die lock ring below his fingers, what did you suppose it was screwed onto? If you go back and read my post above you will note I worked for RCBS, I made these things! Again, except for the possibility of the de-cap stem bushing this is a complete die set.

There shopuld be a cylindrical bushing threaded inside 1/4x28, and outside 9/16x18. That bushing screws into the threads into the top of the sizer die and the de-cap rod you have then screws into the inside of the bushing. The knurled nut on the threaded stem is to lock the de-cap rod adjustment.

That would require the top shank of the expander/decapper rod that zapzoo is holding in his hand to be 1/4x28 in order for it to fit inside the cylindrical bushing wouldn't it? The thread diameter of the rod in the picture is far greater than that. It would be in the neighborhood of .450" and never fit that size hole. Suggest zapzoo needs a universal expander die body, not a bushing.

That still doesn't explain how the expander would work inside a sizer die. It needs a die body larger than case diameter of a .45 ACP in order to expand.

You're right about the expander die body not having a (#2) number. Mine is also unmarked.

. . . what did you suppose it was screwed onto? . . .

I assumed it was screwed into a locking ring, per Jack's picture. Just what you said, I think? I was unaware the die body would have no #2 stamped on it – I don't have any RCBS pistol dies that age (the more recent .45 ACP carbide sizer I have has no number on top, either), so it seemed like a reasonable assumption – but otherwise I believe we are in agreement. What is uncertain is whether the ring is obscuring a die body from view or not?

Zapzoo,

It looks like it would help and save some guesswork if you could possibly post a picture of all the parts you have laid on their sides?

OK, I got out the old dies, a caliper and thread gauge. The sizer #1 die has a 1/2"-20 internal thread. It's retrofitted with a decapper which has a 1/4"-28 thread, held by an inside and outside threaded bushing in the die body. The widest part of the decapper is the ferrule that hold the decapping pin, at .256".

The universal expander body looks like aluminum and has a 9/16"-18 internal thread. The lock ring at .768" is almost as large as the top of the die body at .895". This body is not stamped with a number or name. It looks like Old Fred used the smaller thread in the sizer body so that Bubba couldn't try sizing and expanding with the same die.

The seater #3 die has a 1/4"-28 internal thread. Getting the seater stem back into it was a bit tricky after cleaning as it went out the bottom. So you'd push it back up with a pencil and turn it until the threads caught.

This die set looks complete to me.

Bye
Jack

Marshall,

Good catch. Looking just at the small photo with its reflection it looks a lot smaller, and there really isn't anything in the photo for scale. What that is, is the expander plug from the expander die, the one marked on top RCBS 45 ACP. That is why I described the two possible styles of expander plug, both with and without the de-cap pin attached. This makes it a full die set with absolutely nothing missing. Many pistol caliber size dies had the threaded top and when RCBS went to the plain expander plug without the de-cap pin they provided the bushing and straight de-cap stem in the sizer die.

What I don't understand about this whole thing is this is a 3 die set with a separate expander die, why does everyone get hung up on the expander in the sizer?

FWIW, there were at one time (1950's) actual 2 die sets for straight wall revolver cases. These were made by Herter's and others. The sizer sized only minimally, in a ring similar to the Lee FCD. The case was then expanded in the die above the ring, and when withdrawn there was left a minimal flare on the case due to springback. It didn't work very well as would be expected, and that is why no company still makes that style of die set.

What I don't understand about this whole thing is this is a 3 die set with a separate expander die, why does everyone get hung up on the expander in the sizer?.
I believe you mentioned the bushing (presumed missing) that goes on the sizer die takes the decapping rod. A look at the photo of the rod (zapzoos second post) shows it to be a decapper/expander. This rod can't be used in the sizer die as there is no room to expand the casemouth in there. What you were telling us is correct, provided the rod is a decapper ONLY, then the rod would be 1/4" diameter. Since zapzoo's decapper/expander is much larger in diameter, that led to part of the confusion. At least in my mind. :confused:

To add more confusion, zapzoo's fingers did a good job of hiding the universal expander die and I missed it. I see it now in the last photo, first post. I believed the universal expander die was missing. So Jack was right all along, the whole die set is there and it is identical to the one I have except my set also has a separate taper crimp die.

We might have been tripping all over ourselves but at least everyone was willing to help! :D

If you think about it, you cannot flare a case inside the sizing die - how would you get it back out?

Curiously, this is not true! I have a very old Hollywood 2-die set for 38/357 that really does outside size and flare in one die. Worked well enuf that I could seat cast bullets without shaving off any lead.

I suspect it over-flares, and returns the flare to nearly straight on the way out, but it definitely left enough flare for bullet seating.

Only reason I replaced it with a 3-die set is because it was steel, and I wanted a carbide sizer so I wouldn't have to lube!

.