FYI before you open your wallets-My old Windows XP computer shot crapps. It ran the Sierra Infinity 5 like a champ. Picked up a new laptop to use at the range. The new computers all run Windows Vista as the operating system.

Caution: Sierra Infinity 5 will not run on a computer running Windows Vista. I called Sierra today and asked if they had a patch-No. I asked if they were getting a patch developed-No. I asked if they had any suggestions-No. I said so you have my cash and I have your program that won't run-Yep. Thanks for all your help... :confused:

Customer service at it's best. I can buy a different brand of bullet too... :mad:

I like Speer

The problem is Not Sierra! It iS Microsoft!

How can you expect Sierra to develop ballistic software for a opperating system that did not exist when they devolped it?

I a'm a'little surprised that Vista was not backwords compatable?

Cheezywan

I guess I don't see the issue. You've had the program and have used it for how long? They may write a patch in time but what do you want from them? Your money back because Microsoft came out with a new operating system that isn't compatible?

Wow! That is one impressive crash :eek:
Double Click to launch the program, instantly a box shows up saying it quit working, the shell (desktop) crashes and resets, machine freezes for a bit, and the hard disk stays solid active for a good 8-10 minutes. That takes talent!

More to the point: The problem is not Sierra, it's Microsoft. Or rather, the problem is with the security related architectural changes made to improve Vista. And yes, in the overall big picture, Vista is a monumental improvement over XP. The downside is there is a boatload of software (some estimates are in the 75% range...) out there in the world will simply not work in Vista, and the solution is well beyond a mere "Patch".

Don't blame Sierra, the fault is Microsoft.

Please understand, this was a conscious, deliberate decision on the part of the Windows Architectural Team to improve the security and reliability of the system overall. These decisions were not made lightly, and the consequences were fully understood. They also made the right choice! It stinks for those of us with software that won't work on Vista, but they still made the right choice.

Also understand that the bulk of the software available in the world (including a large quantity from the Evil Empire itself) is very poorly written and tested. Microsoft is largely to blame for this problem due to things like very poor documentation, poor support, How-To articles that teach very bad practices and tools that allow VERY sloppy practices. There is a lot of areas where applications are allowed to do VERY BAD things and get away with it, at least in previous operating systems.

It would be very ... misguided to expect Sierra to re-architect their software (at considerable expense), and provide it as a free "Patch". You probably wouldn't like the download size anyway :rolleyes:

I'm not aware of any ballistics software that will work on Vista, but if I find one, I'll definatly post back here. I have the Sierra program and, frankly, I don't like it. I do use it from time to time, but I am looking for better.

Full Disclosure: I work for Microsoft and have for over 10 years. I have also spent a large part of that time working with external developers to help them break the bad habits and practices that we as a company have taught them :(

I'm not computer saavy; for me it is merely a resource for information, like an electronic book. Frankly, for many reasons, I wish computers (and many other things!) had never been invented. I digress....
I'd be annoyed too, if suddenly software I paid good money for didn't work with my new computer. My first thought wouldn't be Microsoft (the all-knowing, all-seeing), because I don't know how or why this junk does what it does. My first impulse would be to blame the other guy, as Mr. Reaper did, and I can understand his POV.

I would guess that Sierra is depending on some libraries that no longer exist, maybe visual basic, or some of the MFC stuff.

Anyway there is not much Sierra can do but spend the money to re-write it. It's a business decision for them and maybe there will be enough demand, someday.

This is funny! My folks are having considerable difficulty just getting a printer to work with their new Vista machine. They specifically asked for an XP machine, but no one had any.

I don't love all things Apple just because, but I am happy to be well past the "big switch" from OS 9 to OS X. Even then, though, they specifically built support in the "Classic" environment for older apps. It's too bad that MS can't do the same. Presently, we use Codeweavers Crossover to run certain Windows programs on our Intel-based Mac with very good success. Mostly, though, we just run Mac apps.

Does Vista have the "Compatibility" function like XP?
If so, you should be able to click Start > Programs > Accessories > Program Compatibility Wizard, or access it by right clicking on the program icon.

I have some good news. It will work when run in "Windows 98/ME" Compatibility mode. I have verified this and it is currently running on my laptop at the moment. The down side is that Vista will annoy you with the dreaded "Allow/Cancel" dialog box. But it will run just fine.

To run in compatibility mode:
Right Click on the icon on the desktop, select "Properties"
Select the "Compatibility" Tab.
Check the box labeled "Run in compatibility mode".
Select either "Windows 95" or "Windows 98/ME" from the drop down box.
Click the "OK" Button at the bottom.

Then run the program by double clicking on the icon.

Unfortunately the OS will offer to run the program when you put the CD in the drive. Don't do that, just click cancel. You have to run it from the icon, but it will run just fine.

I also filed a bug with the Application Compatibility team about it. The program is written in VB and there is no reason that it shouldn't work just fine without compatibility mode.

Vista has to great stuff!! The older software won't run on it and the biggest advantage is the hackers will start going after it now. They will leave the older operating systems by the wayside in favor of who's the first to make the new system crash.
As far as Sierra go's I thought they made bullets not programs. You know the stuff we shoot out the end of our barrel's. The ballistics programs were a added bonus.
TF

I have some good news. It will work when run in "Windows 98/ME" Compatibility mode. . .

Thanks for the work-around. Curious that VB didn't go, but for high level languages in general, doesn't the software maker simply have to invest in a Vista compatible compiler (assuming he can find one) and recompile for Vista?

I was going to suggest a dual OS installation. I don't know if you'd need OS Commander or some other such software to have a dual boot system currently? It's been a long time since I tried to keep DOS and Windows and Linux all available for booting on a single machine. You would, of course, need a valid copy of XP to install for XP applications. Lots and lots of drivers still need to be re-written out there, too. There will be a full year of software catch up going on, I am sure.

Thanks for the work-around. Curious that VB didn't go, but for high level languages in general, doesn't the software maker simply have to invest in a Vista compatible compiler (assuming he can find one) and recompile for Vista?

The problem is not that simple, nor is it even related. The compiler they used will work just fine. The problem is in the design of the software itself. I managed to track down the actual failure and it is related to the database used by the program. Specifically, the database is in the "Program Files" directory, where we (as a company) told developers to store such things (common databases, etc) not too long ago. Since that time, we have learned about all manner of bad things that can happen when a common storage location for programs is not protected from tampering. We have now changed what we tell developers, but that change happened fairly recently, and would require significant changes to existing programs. The Windows 95/98/ME compatibility mode allows the program to write to it's database and therefore work. I have no idea why it crashed on my machine, it should have just not worked.


... There will be a full year of software catch up going on, I am sure.

We know. We KNOW. WE KNOW! Good Golly do we know :eek: Believe me we know, and the pain is not just on the customer end ;) All of us have to deal with these things daily, and help our development partners, and work with OEMs, and take a boatload of S*** from everyone under the sun :(

Life in the fast lane :cool:

Yeah, and you will, too, for long after programs have been revised. People will still want their old versions to work. I still have an old DOS machine running for a few items. Hardly ever turn it on, but once in awhile. . .

I'm glad the security thing is being dealt with in some more serious fashion, though I am sorry to see things become more hidden and less accessible to users. The Internet has made security a real mess. At my old company I actually kept the machine with development projects and patent work off-line, except for plugging it in to get updates once in awhile. Security has been a constant catch up problem, with software developers always behind the curve. I hope Vista helps.

Thanks for the work-around. Curious that VB didn't go, but for high level languages in general, doesn't the software maker simply have to invest in a Vista compatible compiler (assuming he can find one) and recompile for Vista?



You would think so, but.... sometimes the system libraries and calls themselves change, requiring new programming. All the PocketPC stuff that works through ActiveSync, at least the installers, have to be redone, as an example.

Anyway.... good thing that changes in the shooting industry occur on a much slower pace, huh? It would be the equivalent of changing all chamberings / cartridges every 3-4 years, and none of the old stuff working anymore, nor any components available.

The old joke about if the car industry worked like the computer industry we'd need all new roads and cars every year isn't far off the mark.

I guess I'm showing the age of my computer experience. Back in the good old days, one of the purposes of a high level language was being able to port it to different systems via compliers that interpreted for the differences. But when you are dependent on common libraries in place of writing subroutines, you really aren't writing the whole program. That's apparently what is happening here? And no system of substitution has been created, if it even can be.

...when run in "Windows 98/ME" Compatibility mode.

Good tip, Stanger73. I'll pass that function on to some family members who are really hating MS just now. I'm completely positive they are totally unaware of this function. Thanks!

We keep 3 working computers in our home, only one on line. Windows 95, windows 98, and the XP I'm on now. My sister has a Law office and I get her hand- me- downs, when I want them. So I have no problem with old software.

I have some good news. It will work when run in "Windows 98/ME" Compatibility mode. ....

Thanks much for the fix, seems to work well, so far so good!
:)

Point Blank seems to work fine, too. No fiddling required from what I've seen so far.