I was thinking of purchasing a 9 mm Glock for personal protection, target shooting, and something to take with me while in the woods. On another website I got the following response. Just wondering what your feelings are.

<<I didn't mean to start an argument. I know that there are alot of guys out there who own 9mm's and I'm not tring to trash-talk your guns. For self defense purposes, I believe that a 9mm is a poor choice. I have personally been involved in several incidents where people have been shot w/ nines "up close and personal" and survived. On one occasion, a man was stabbing a woman and was shot 9 times w/ a 9mm. He didn't stop his attack until the last 2 or 3 rounds were fired and still lived for 6 hours. Most police departments have switched to .40 or .45's for this reason.>>

This was the quote:


I didn't mean to start an argument. I know that there are alot of guys out there who own 9mm's and I'm not tring to trash-talk your guns. For self defense purposes, I believe that a 9mm is a poor choice. I have personally been involved in several incidents where people have been shot w/ nines "up close and personal" and survived. On one occasion, a man was stabbing a woman and was shot 9 times w/ a 9mm. He didn't stop his attack until the last 2 or 3 rounds were fired and still lived for 6 hours. Most police departments have switched to .40 or .45's for this reason.

Nothing at all wrong with the 9mm. I personally have problems with semi autos because I reload and it ruins my whole day if I lose an empty case.

Just ask my wife (a better woman than I deserve) who has joined me for 20 minutes on our hands and knees hunting a lost case.

Here's the thing you have to remember about the internet.

Most people lie.

Anybody can say "yeah I personally saw a guy shot lots of times with a certain caliber, therefore it sucks".

The simple truth is people are hard to kill. And by that is they don't die immediately unless you shoot them in the head. People die of gunshot wounds by bleeding to death.

Name a cartridge and someone will be along with an anecdotal experience that will cast doubt on it.

My personal one involved a .45 acp and a starved pitbull with mange over 95% of its body that I felt needed putting down.

KenK and Army GI are right about the 9 MM tales of not being a good round. there isn't any magic round that will kill anybody with one shot unless they are shot in the head and I've seen stories where some people survived a head wound. It's a good cartridge for selfdefense and you can get ammo dirt cheap. Not as cheap as .22 lr but dirt cheap enough to where you can afford target practice more than other calibers except the .22 lr.
If you keep track of your local ads you'll find 9mm on sale during the summer and hunting season and I do know that Midwayusa will sell you 9MM by the case load and they throw sales too.

All shooting incidents are different. Especially when you sre dealing with human psychology. You'll get fights from 7' 4" 350lbs guys stopped with a scratch on the arm from a .22LR on the ground screaming "I've been Shot!! I'm dying!!" You will get the other extreme of having to empty 6 rounds of Heavy duty .44 mag into a drug crazied 4'9" midgets. Then there is every type of incident in between. The psycology of the attacker also plays a part in the shooting.


One suggestion though if you are going to carry it in the woods you might want a good .357 mag as a minimum rd (I'm .44 mag fan recommending the .357). I don't know what part of the country that you live in but if you encounter a black bear in the woods that is the minimum rd I would want to have. While Black Bears rarely attack people it does happen on rare occasions. You can find good heavy duty .357 mag hunting rds. at Buffalo Bore and Corbon.

I like a 9. I've owned several and have an Iowa State Police trade in Berretta that I would probably reach for if I was able to pick only one handgun. Ammo is affordable and you have a choice of FMJ, cheap hollow points, good hollowpoints, frangible ammo, and others. I have been a deputy sheriff for 9 years and can't carry a 9mm, but would if I could. It's easy and fun to shoot. As far as getting an argument about the 9, you will get an argument about any round. And most people are going to speak as experts when sometimes their info was gathered over a cold beer with people who have not seen what a 9 can do in the hands of some very untrained people. I've seen it several times and it ain't pretty. By the way, I've SEEN one shot of #6 bird shot kill a man as qhick as a stick of dynamite, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a defence round.

Caliber is far, far down the list of importantant factors in a defensive sidearm below the most important -- your ability to place a shot where it needs to go. Is a .45 better than a 9mm? Arguably, yes -- but ONLY if you can place the bullet where it needs to go.

Now, I find a .45 very easy to handle -- but some folks don't. And, there's no question that if a .45 is easy to handle, a 9mm is a downright pussycat. If you find a 9mm comfortable and east to shoot accurately, a good reliable pistol in that chambering will serve you admirably well.

I like the M9 we have to shoot in the service. Its a real flower to shoot. So is the M16.

But I'm also pretty accurate with the 1911, and the recoil isn't much worse than the 9mm. Though it is noticeable.

Gents,

Elmer Keith used to say, "Shoot as big a gun as you can shoot accurately."

If you can shoot the 9mm accurately, excellent. If you can shoot the 45 ACP accurately, all the better. Much better to hit the badguy with your 9mm than spray 500 S&Ws all over.

Lobo in West Virginia

Why don't you just get a shotgun? You won't miss and close will get you the cigar with a scattergun.

I think that the 9mm would be a good choice for police work and that must be right because so many police officers use it.

But here is the difference: police are usually on the offensive, they need many rounds when a criminal is trying to evade them, or if there is an open assult against them. The Glock 17 is good for holding many rounds, so is the Beretta...for defence, you need to put the aggresser down fast and to do that, the 45 ACP with more than a few quick back-up shots is hard to beat!

For concealed carry, I like a real pipsqueak, the 380 Wather, but it is small enough to conceal anywhere. My wife believes that the smaller you are, the bigger desense weapon you need, since you are more likely to come out worse when attacked, seems reasonable?

I would not falt anyone who carried a 9mm

For concealed carry, If the price of 9mm will help you practice more, ie shooter 600 rounds/month in practice instead of 300 .45s, yes its better. Shot placement being the most important part of stopping an attacker.

personal defense in the home, shop, business,

I always prefer the short barrel 12 ga. pump with 8 shot magazine. with buckshot or slugs

just what role will this 9mm play for you?

In the defensive training I've attended, a pistol helps you fight you way to a rifle of shotgun.

I've posted this opinion b4 and I'll post it again: One's first pistol should be a .22! You'll do a whole lot more shooting at .22 ammo prices than you will at any centerfire prices! With .22 recoil levels, you'll be able to develop good shooting technique, and avoid developing a flinch.

Get a Ruger or Browning Buckmark semi-auto, and you can plink like mad, or join a club and shoot in a league. You'll shoot and develop much more in league with other shooters, cuz it's more fun to have company.

You'll never outgrow that .22, I guarantee. Your second pistol can be something bigger!

I didn't mean to start an argument. I know that there are alot of guys out there who own 9mm's and I'm not tring to trash-talk your guns. For self defense purposes, I believe that a 9mm is a poor choice. I have personally been involved in several incidents where people have been shot w/ nines "up close and personal" and survived. On one occasion, a man was stabbing a woman and was shot 9 times w/ a 9mm. He didn't stop his attack until the last 2 or 3 rounds were fired and still lived for 6 hours. Most police departments have switched to .40 or .45's for this reason.



I don't know for sure, but he MUST be right.

Why, "everybody" knows that the 9x19 will often bounce right off of people who are shot with it. It makes them meaner and madder. Now, the .45 ACP, on the other hand, will knock a 350 pound man backwards about 30 feet if you just hit him in the little finger.

With modern, well designed expanding bullets, the 9x19 is a very effective self defense cartridge, assuming you can hit with it! My usual carry gun is in .45 ACP, but I do not feel underarmed or handicapped when I do carry a gun in 9x19.

Personally, I think the 9mm is too big and powerful for a self defence/ccw gun. The 9mm is and always will be a military cartridge.

I like the .380 or .32 for self defense. I can fire those faster and cheaper than any 9mm.

I don't like 9 mm's and won't own one. That doesn't mean it is a bad round, that is just my opinion. However, if you want a semi-auto to use for personal protection and for a woods gun I would look at a 10mm or the .45. I am thinking of getting the Springfield XD compact because I can easily use it as a carry weapon and I can put the larger magazine in and take it in a regular holster into the woods. I would go with a .40 S&W before the 9. With that said, many like the 9 and I can't fault them for those opinions. Shot placement is critical and if that is what you are most comfortable with then that is what you should use.

The 9mm has probably killed more people than any other cartridge based on its useage by the Germans in WWII.

But before you buy a Glock, check out the Smith & Wesson M&P, or Military & Police. They are outstanding pistols.

I'm willing to bet artillery killed the most people, followed closely by the 7.92x57mm on the German side.

I never bet on the side of the enemy even if I am proven wrong later. Therefore, the .30-06 killed the most people in WWII and I know that because we won. The .50 or .54 caliber may have killed the most during the Civil War, so I guess we should all be carrying muzzleloaders as our carry weapon. :)

ArmyGI and Riflefan,
Nope. Airdropped high explosives. Worldwide, I'd be willing to bet a cup of good coffee that did it.

Yeah well my answer was closer ;p

*laughing*
tell that to the Air Force. Even if they were Army then... ;)

30+ million dead Russians in WWII and I don't know how many in WWI probably will sway the vote to 8mm mauser, not to mention other Allied casualties, and misc. civilians that were rounded up and shot.

30+ million dead Russians in WWII and I don't know how many in WWI probably will sway the vote to 8mm mauser, not to mention other Allied casualties, and misc. civilians that were rounded up and shot.
HA! That's TWO for 8mm Mauser.

Take that MichalAK:D

See why I like the 98 action? ;)

If you included WWI I'd have to say maybe the 8mm mauser. I still have a sneaking suspicion its bombs overall if we could count noses from 1936 to 45.

In my short career as a LEO I had a S&W Model 19 and a Model 39. I preferred carrying the 9 because it wore better in the car and when running but I always felt more secure with the .357 and SuperVel ammo.
I spent many more years carrying the government issue M1911A1 and fired it much more. I maintained Expert status with it and felt secure enough if I ever had to use it. Never did. I still own one and still enjoy shooting it.

I am of the school that believes a handgun for anti-personel use should have adequate stopping power and at a minumum, that is 9mm/.38 Special. But yes, you have to be proficient and that means firing a lot of rounds. If you aren't comfortable with your weapon you need one that is.
My take anyway.

I just bought a .444, but what Marshall says elsewhere on this site about a .357 mag lever carbine makes a lot of sense for a home defense gun if you also believe what Clint Smith says about the little actual difference in length of hold for a long gun compared to a handgun. I've personally observed people accurately raacking levers faster than a semiauto will cycle. 12 ga. ain't bad, but a double or triple tap from .357 should be final enough in most circumstances. that said, what I've been reading about the Barnes X pistol bullet has sure got my attention for a good defensive round in any caliber starting with 9mm if you believe factory ammo will ultimately cause you less grief in the legal system than handloads.

See why I like the 98 action? ;)

If you included WWI I'd have to say maybe the 8mm mauser. I still have a sneaking suspicion its bombs overall if we could count noses from 1936 to 45.

I'd guess most of them went down in bayonet charges against machine guns, forget the model names, but "Hitler's zipper" was one nickname. Forget both-action rifles - there just weren't enough german soldiers to work the bolts fast enough. The standard russian tactics appeared to be a contest to see how many of their own soldiers could get killed per battle; the early British / French stragety in WWI wasn't much better.

Read some of the accounts of battles on the eastern front. Horrifying when you consider the Russians lost more people in numerous battles, than the U.S. did in both wars combined.

Conventional wisdom is that artillery causes 75% of casualties, rising to 90% in open areas like deserts.

I'd guess we got far enough off topic with this one :rolleyes:

As far as personal defense - think you'll find that most people just don't want to get shot, with anything, under any circumstances. Including criminals.

And most of them who get shot, would just as soon not get shot any more.

It is simply amazing how people downtalk the 9mm for self defense... A lot of those people get that idea from some early studies on that round's stopping power with FULL METAL JACKETS. Seriously, raise your hand if you wouldn't mind getting hit with a 124gr. Speer GoldDot going over 1200fps.!
As for woods carry, the 9mm would be great if your main concern was cougar or people...that's the excuse I used to buy mine. If you are worried about something bigger, leave the semi-auto at home and get a revolver...

Jim

The 9 mm is a fine round for women and men that like that type of gun. :)

Joking guys, just joking...note the smiley!

its just as elmer keith said, carry the biggest gun you can shoot. if you can shoot a 9mm better than you can shoot a handgun in any larger caliber, by all means carry it! any gun is better than no gun. also if you are talking about ccw or self defense, look at different types of bullets. using an expanding bullet like a gold dot HP over jacketed ball ammo will offer different effects. personally i favor revolvers, and my favorite handgun chambering is the .357 magnum paired with the 125 grain semi jacketed hollow point. its been proven time and time again, and carries a one shot stop rate of somthing like 96.8%. my grandfather carried one when he was a deputy, heck even my mother carried one while on duty as a deputy. if i was going to pick three ccw or self defense cartridges, they would be the .357 magnum, .44 special or the .45 acp. but by all means, if it works for you, use it. but if you have trouble shooting other ccw chamberings, get some handguning and or self defense training. it might help you handle a larger caliber more accurately then you think.

~thebuckheadkid

If you are using ball ammo then the 45 is a little better. The 9mm has been upgraded by the +P and +P+ ammo. I use the CorBon 115 grain in my Glock 26. It goes 1260 out of the short barrel. The main advantages to the 9mm is cost of practice ammo and mag capacity. You have to make a good hit with anything in order to be effective. If it is a CCW then size makes a difference. I have carried all manner of guns and the Glock 26 is about the ideal size for concealment under a T-shirt. The Glock 27 and 36 would also be good. With the 45 I would use the Federal Hydrashock 230 gr. Just my .02.

If you are using ball ammo then the 45 is a little better. The 9mm has been upgraded by the +P and +P+ ammo. I use the CorBon 115 grain in my Glock 26. It goes 1260 out of the short barrel. The main advantages to the 9mm is cost of practice ammo and mag capacity. You have to make a good hit with anything in order to be effective. If it is a CCW then size makes a difference. I have carried all manner of guns and the Glock 26 is about the ideal size for concealment under a T-shirt. The Glock 27 and 36 would also be good. With the 45 I would use the Federal Hydrashock 230 gr. Just my .02.
Which makes the 9 mm ballisticly equivalent to the 357 Mag, NEED I SAY MORE!!! :rolleyes:

I have to agree with Jim. Chronoing the Cor-Bon .357 125gr. in my 2" snubbies yields between 1200 and 1250fps.

Tell me there is ten cents difference between that and the 9mm (0.355") 115gr. load at the same velocity....

See why I like the 98 action? ;)

If you included WWI I'd have to say maybe the 8mm mauser. I still have a sneaking suspicion its bombs overall if we could count noses from 1936 to 45.

Yeah the 98 bolt action is very nice. I like my 1903 it works good in my 1903 springfield :)

I disagree about the bombs though. The USAAF bombed strategic targets and ended up killing more civilians than troops on the field. Artillery almost always targeted enemy troops or vehicles, so I say that artillery has killed the most troops in war. After all, artillery is the "King of Battle".

"I do not have to tell you who won the war. You know, the artillery did." - Gen. George S. Patton

i love my 9mm. i used to carry it off duty. i wasn't worried about not having enough bullet or over-penetration. as long as you put it where it needs to be you can use a BB.

Technically.... if you look at total casualties from warfare, disease is generally the top killer, at least till antibiotics were widely used.

Getting back to the 9mm topic, if I could get my same .357 snubbie in a 7-shot titanium 9mm, especially unported, I'd take that instead. A little more controllable and not quite as LOUD.

I have a Berretta Brigadier model 92 in 9mm. I also have a colt 1911 .45. I prefer the 1911 because of the feel of the gun. The Berretta is a little fat on the grip compared to the 1911. I have medium size hands and it was very awkward to shoot after many years of the 1911. I bought the Berretta because it was cheaper than the 1911 and currently looking to pick up a 1911. Great choice of ammo in the 9mm, but still find the grip awkward after 5 years of shooting the Berretta. For self defense I have a Winchester defender 12 guage pump and prefer a .357 snub with hollowed points for the wife.

Technically.... if you look at total casualties from warfare, disease is generally the top killer, at least till antibiotics were widely used.

Getting back to the 9mm topic, if I could get my same .357 snubbie in a 7-shot titanium 9mm, especially unported, I'd take that instead. A little more controllable and not quite as LOUD.

Not really true unless you are considering infection after an area has been traumatized then no doubt antibiotics have made a huge difference. We did have casualties from cholera, typhoid, yellow fever, etc. but combat casualties were greater. Antibiotics don't do anything against chemical agents either except help to fight secondary infection. Also, the mortality rate for the military was probably lower than the general public (pre-antibiotics) because their physical condition was likely better overall but that one is just a guess.

I still say the .30-06 was the biggest killer because WE WON. I refuse to give that distinction to a weapon used by Nazi's.

Nothing wrong with a 9mm if that's what you want. I don't own one anymore but I had a nice Khar 9mm that I bought for my girlfriend.

The 9mm is losing popularity to the .40 cal (my PD went to the .40 cal over the 9mm about 13 years ago). The 9mm is a very versatile round you can get it 115, 124, 135, and 147 grains.

If that's what you want go for it.

I'm personally a fan of the .357sig right now.

Me too, .357SIG is awesome.

As you can see, everybody has their own opinion on what caliber should be used for this or that. I think the besst idea is to listen to what has been said over and over, carry what you can shoot. I have seen shooters that carry a .45 because that is the only thing that can stop a threat, some of them could not qualify with a .45, when they switched to a 9mm, suddenly their scores improved. I would say carry the hardest hitting cartridge that you can shoot accurately. If it is a 9mm, so be it, just practise more with the money you are saving.

The 9mm has some real virtues: some very nice guns are available in it, and ammo can be very inexpensive. It also has a major downside: that cheap ammo is usually mil ball, and that round nose is a very ineffective shape for a bullet. The answer may be to shoot the cheap stuff for practice, but get good HP stuff for social work. Make sure the HP will function in your gun, though.
I have a very nice CZ-75 and SIG 226. They are great guns, but I prefer to make bigger holes in the target with .44s and .45, and when I want really big holes, a couple of .50s.

WARNING< MAJOR THREAD THEFT >

Army GI, yeah, Patton did believe that. The German army was disgusted with us for just dragging up larger guns whenever things got rough.

The original question was not about troops killed though. It was simply, people killed. Yes, troops are people too but this includes civilians.

"Warhawk
Beartooth Regular

Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Tejas The 9mm has probably killed more people than any other cartridge based on its useage by the Germans in WWII.

But before you buy a Glock, check out the Smith & Wesson M&P, or Military & Police. They are outstanding pistols". Copied form the original post by Warhawk.

I still maintain that between the USAAC and the RAF, the German and Russian airforces, the Japanese, Italians and everyone else in WWII, it's most likely air dropped bombs. Sad but true. Then maybe the 98 mauser action. Remember, the Russians chambered most of their SMGs for .45 we shipped them.

Remember, the Russians chambered most of their SMGs for .45 we shipped them.
[QUOTE]

? What happened to the 5 million plus PPSh-41s in 7.62x25 produced between 1941 and 1945? They were certainly not in .45 ACP!

Remember, the Russians chambered most of their SMGs for .45 we shipped them.
[QUOTE]

? What happened to the 5 million plus PPSh-41s in 7.62x25 produced between 1941 and 1945? They were certainly not in .45 ACP!

Doesn't matter what the Russians used.... have about a 10 or 11 to one ratio of Russians killed, vs. Germans, on the eastern front. And that's WWII. Don't know the numbers for WWI, offhand.

Remember, the Russians chambered most of their SMGs for .45 we shipped them.
[QUOTE]

? What happened to the 5 million plus PPSh-41s in 7.62x25 produced between 1941 and 1945? They were certainly not in .45 ACP!

Good catch. Needed more coffee. Can't see ammo that small when I haven't had enough coffee.
You are right Charley, it isn't.

*going to get another cup of coffee.*

I think some are missing the point!!! :confused:
The best 9 m/m loads = 357 mag loads = the BEST fight stopper available!!! :) (in a handgun)
Add this to the fact it can be placed in a SMALLER, MORE CONTROLLABLE PLATFORM, WITH OF A GREATER BASIC LOAD OF AMMO and it don't get any better than that! :cool:
1. It must be small, and light enough that it is not a hassle to carry. (a 25 in the pocket is better than a 45 in the safe)
2. It must be controllable enough to have good hit probability and fast, accurate follow up shots. (a hit with a 38 is better than a miss with a 357 mag)
3. It must be able to deliver as much 'trauma' to the target as possible. (see the equation above)
4. The less the need for a reload the higher probability of completing the mission with a favorable out come.(self explanatory) :D

Caliber is far, far down the list of importantant factors in a defensive sidearm below the most important -- your ability to place a shot where it needs to go. Is a .45 better than a 9mm? Arguably, yes -- but ONLY if you can place the bullet where it needs to go.

Now, I find a .45 very easy to handle -- but some folks don't. And, there's no question that if a .45 is easy to handle, a 9mm is a downright pussycat. If you find a 9mm comfortable and east to shoot accurately, a good reliable pistol in that chambering will serve you admirably well.

Probably one of the most imprtant things ever.

I own a 9mm and a .45. I am much more proficient with the 9mm than the .45.

theres more people in the ground from 22's and 38's than anything else.like alot of you say its shot placement that counts.and next on that list would be what load you use.thank god were not held to N. A. T. O rules of ingagment,and we can load the best man stopper for that caliber.wheather it be 9mm or 45acp.the 9mm is a good stopper when loaded right,like any of corbon,or fedral or buffalo big bore and so on.theres so many stories of the bad guy gitting back up after being shot,poor shot placement is the reason.theres also storys of people being dropped with sub calibers,and not getting back up.the mob likes 22,they work pretty well for them.but they use shot placement.[the back of an ear]dont be affaired of the 9mm its a great caliber that has a good track record,when used propperly,with the right load,and in the right spot.practise,makes perfect,and smooth is fast.it wont hurt to have 17 rounds in one mag etheir.just in case.

This was the quote:

For self defense purposes, I believe that a 9mm is a poor choice. I have personally been involved in several incidents where people have been shot w/ nines "up close and personal" and survived. On one occasion, a man was stabbing a woman and was shot 9 times w/ a 9mm. He didn't stop his attack until the last 2 or 3 rounds were fired and still lived for 6 hours.

The objective of your shooting somebody in a defensive scenario, tactically, legally and morally speaking, is to stop them from inflicting serious bodily injury on an innocent person...not to kill them. The "up close and personal" poster that you quoted seems to think that a caliber is somehow useless unless it kills the person you shoot and kills them instantly.

Regarding the man reportedly "stabbing a woman and was shot 9 times w/ a 9mm. He didn't stop his attack until the last 2 or 3 rounds were fired", you'd need to see the investigative case file of that particular incident to determine if it was somehow a "failure to stop" on the 9mm's part. Apparently, as the 'story' is told, no one noticed any reaction by the man stabbing the female victim until after the 6th or 7th round hit him.

Having been in some shooting scrapes over a 35 year career as a metro area police officer, I find it hard to believe anyone could be that precise in counting shots versus impact effect during a flurry of gunfire in a real fight. But even beyond that, if I were to point you down range with your favorite 9mm, blew a whistle, and stop-watched you to see how fast you can get rounds off, how long would it take you to rip off 6 or 7 rounds at spitting distance into the silhouette target? What...two seconds, or less?

So...the elapsed time from when the first 9mm round hit the man stabbing the woman, until he succumbed to the incoming gunfire was one, one thousand...two, one thousand, something like that? And given the "up close and personal" poster's penchant for thinking a caliber is useless unless it instantly kills the target, who's to say what his definition of "he didn't stop the attack" is? What...he didn't turn into a shower of sparks, or get knocked flying through the air when the 9mm bullets hit him? You can kill a violent criminal, standing right there in his shoes, and it will still take a second or so for him to realize he's dead, and another few fractions of a second for gravity to pull him down, for Christ's sake.

My point is that too many people's expectations of what a defensive handgun (of whatever caliber) can do are colored by what they have internalized from watching Hollywood films. Plus, as effective as your choice of a defensive caliber and ammo might be, believe me when I say that it won't work fast enough for your expectations during a real gunfight. Before you put any credence to what someone says about the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of a defensive firearm, take a minute to size him up to see if he really even understands what the realities of a gunfight are. There is a lot of BS generated about virtually every defensive use of a firearm, and you just never know for sure until you look into the true facts for yourself.

As several have noted here, the 9mm parabellum cartridge is a good defensive caliber, made better by the improvement made in jhp ammo in recent years. The 9mm's biggest plus is that everyday, ordinary people can pick it up and hit well with it after a modicum of practice. If you don't have time to practice with your defensive handgun at least once a week, then you probably are better served by an easier to control defensive tool like a 9mm. You have to be able to dominate your handgun before you can effectively use it to dominate a homicidal attacker.

Snowman,

Excellent Sir, exactly on the mark. I couldn't agree more.

The one real weapon that a fellow has is that soft pink one between his ears, and everything else is just a tool, nothing more. This being the case, weapon and cartridge selection are far less important than a defensive mindset, marksmanship, and the manipulations of all the tools (firearm, cover, movement, etc.) than the inherent ability or "power" of the weapon.

I certainly beleive that the 9 is up to the task if the operator is.

Best to you Sir, well done!

Steve

An excellent summation of defensive handgun realities by Snowman and Whitehunter35. Posts like these are what keep me coming back to these forums.

Right on the money Snowman.
You can't shoot fast enough to make misses count.
Being shot in a vital is the only effective way to stop an attacker.
I use the word effective with caution when it cames to hanguns.

Just backing up the previous posters, A 9mm Is an Adequate self defense weapon. I too have heard many stories of people being shot with different calibers and surviving, But in most cases those shot were Jacked Up on some Illegal Substances. I have heard stories of someone taking 6 .357 shots to the chest and still able to stand, But that was Some case of adrenaline. Buy the 9mm By all means if you feel comfortable with it. Shoot it regularly (cost of ammo is cheap). I own a S&W 5906 and have an awesome supply of Federal EFMJ 124gr +P Ammo, with 3 10rd, and 2 15rd clips loaded at all times.