The Pistol Cartridge Rifle Proposal

The final disposition Pistol Cartridge Rifle proposal will be decided at the NRC meeting on Monday, March 26 at 6 p.m. (Local Time) at the Garrison Conference Center at Fort Harrison State Park in Indianapolis.

Time for emailing, phone calls and letters have been extended until March 31 - but please submit your comments before the March 26 meeting.

Ladies and gentlemen,

It is CRUNCH TIME - the opposition (both the anti-gun/anti hunting extremists & the Indiana and anti-rifle faction) are vigorously opposing this. The random Public identifies Deer Hunting with ALL hunting - and it will set BAD precident to have a State imply that a particular type or class of firearm is "unsuitable" for hunting.

I would like to ask each and everyone on here that has an interest in this proposal to contact the NRC with your input, feelings and data, especially data even if you have already contacted them before.

This is about the FREEDOM to CHOOSE between ballistically equivilent tools, and should be framed as such.

The proposed deer firearm season rule change language reads:
- The rifle cartridge must:
(A) have a bullet of three hundred fifty-seven thousandths of an inch (.357) diameter or larger;
(B) have a minimum case length of one and sixteen hundredths (1.16) inches; and
(C) have a maximum case length of one and six hundred twenty-five thousandths (1.625) inches.

Please do not email about the .30-30, .35 Rem, .444 or .45-70. While I understand and sympathise, that will NOT help this pass. The LeverEvolution pulled them out of the equasion by extending the range envelope.

Comments can be e-mailed to either or both:

jkane@nrc.in.gov - who gathers the input and catergorizes it.

http://www.in.gov/nrc/contact/

If you ever want to hunt indiana with somthing other than a Slug Gun, muzzleloader or Pistol, please do your hunting civic duty and take a few minutes out of your time to make that email.

Guys, this is a MUST DO. Even if you don't ever think you will hunt Indiana, you MIGHT.

If this DNR Proposal fails because the Anti's are loud enough, it will set a BAD precident for the entire US hunting community. If one State can declare a firearm "unsuitable" for hunting not because of any objective criteria, but because some people don't like it, we will in serious trouble.

Thanks.

Thanks for making me aware of this. I've long been hoping Indiana would make an allowance for pistol-cartridge rifles (it always seemed silly that we could hunt with a 30-06 pistol but not a .44 rifle). I will send an e-mail shortly.

An update, folks: this from the DNR website:

Administrative Rule (Regulation) Changes

RIFLE PROPOSAL

The public comment period for the proposal to allow rifles with pistol cartridges is now over. At this time, the Natural Resources Commission (NRC) and DNR are reviewing all of the public comments. A report of all of the public comments received, as well as a response by the DNR, will be posted on our website after May 1.

The Natural Resources Commission will vote on this proposal to allow rifles with pistol cartridges at their meeting on May 22. If the NRC gives final approval to the proposal, it will be in effect for this year’s deer firearms season.

The proposed language reads:

* The rifle cartridge must:
1. fire a bullet of three hundred fifty-seven thousandths of an inch (.357) diameter or larger;
2. have a minimum case length of one and sixteen hundredths (1.16) inches; and
3. have a maximum case length of one and six hundred twenty-five thousandths (1.625) inches.

* Some cartridges that would be legal include the following:
o .357 Magnum
o .38-40 Winchester
o .41 Magnum
o .41 Special
o .44 Magnum
o .44 Special
o .44-.40 Winchester
o .45 Colt
o .454 Casull
o .480 Ruger
o .475 Linebaugh
o .50 Action Express
o .500 S&W

This administrative rule proposal, as well as several others, can be viewed at the link below:

* 2006 Additional Wildlife Administrative Rule Changes

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/about/wildliferules06.pdf

Since Indiana is my home state, when I return there in a little over two years it will be great to start hunting with a rifle. I hunted for many years with my TC .45-70, FA .454, and TC .50 AK, so it will be great to take my AR .458 SOCOM or .500 Phantom into the deer woods. I can't see anything wrong with a shorter version of the .45-70 in semi-auto form but it will be sure to make an officer or two scratch their heads.

Which is somthing we want to keep relatively quiet until final approval...

We've had enough trouble with the Fudds who think Leverguns "hold too many & shoot too fast"...

Let's just keep the specialty Uppers to ourselves, eh?

Latest PDF by the INDNR. Dated 4/4/2007.

Looking good...

http://www.ai.org/legislative/iac/20070404-IR-312070023PRA.xml.pdf

Thanks, Old...

It's too bad a 45/70 can't be used, but this does allow rifles, for the first time in a long while.

I hope getting the door open with pistol-cartridge rifles may pave the way for 45/70's and the like in the future. I personally think Indiana should rule something to the effect that rifles and handguns could use any straight-walled, rimmed cartridge at least .357 in diameter and at least 1.16 inches long, with no maximum length. That would keep out the super-range handguns chambered for necked-down rifle cartridges, while allowing short-range favorites like the .45-70.

Does anyone know when rifles were last allowed for deer in Indiana?
I don't recall a time when they were, but I'm only 42.

Does anyone know when rifles were last allowed for deer in Indiana?
I don't recall a time when they were, but I'm only 42.

Back in the teens and twenties? Before the herd was totally wiped out anyway. IIRC the herds were reintroduced in the 50s to very limited "pumpkin-ball-only" slug hunting.

45-70 only limited to short range? Is this not the carterige that the sharps, remington rolling blocks and winchester highwalls were chambered in? If they were only intended for short range, why have that very handy tang sight? I think that one might have to be a better range guesser, but I think that they would do the job on a whitetail at 300 yards

Sure they will... to an extremely well practiced shooter.

Point is, they are not, nor will they ever be "long range-flat shooting" like a .30-06.

People are the limiting factor on 45-70 range . If you know your gun and ammo 400yards is no problem at all and 800 yards is not unheard of if you aim really high .

People are the limiting factor on 45-70 range . If you know your gun and ammo 400yards is no problem at all and 800 yards is not unheard of if you aim really high .


True but how many people are practiced enough to get that kind of range. not many I'll wager. I'll bet most of us on this board don't live in areas where you could get a lot of practice at those 400-800 yard range. I certainly don't.

I know ONE guy who shoots his .45-70 at over 200yds (bench).... and he's a Sharps Nut.

And yes, he's within 5" at 200... With Black Powder.

Is anyone out there planning to take advantage of this?
I'd like to, but my wrecked back just won't allow it anymore.

Whatcha gonna use?

I'm going to be using my Rossi 1892 20" .357mag with 180gr cast bullets at 1800fps and Iron Sights in Dunes State Park. I'm doing 1" 5-shot groups at 50yds offhand, so I should be ok.

If I were able (and honestly, if I felt like sitting in the cold), I'd probably use my Marlin 1894 .41 Magnum.

The ammo choice would be a harder decision. Cast or Hornady XTP- hard to say.

I won't be able to make it out this year (getting married!), but I would use either my Browning 1885 in .454, or my Browning 92 in .44 mag.

I won't be able to make it out this year (getting married!), but I would use either my Browning 1885 in .454, or my Browning 92 in .44 mag.

Congrats for owning a B92. They are slick rifles.
I always get a little woozy when I see them mentioned because I owned one in .357 for around 10 years, but traded it off. It's one of the few trades I harbor any regret over.
That was double painful because 1) I returned to the gun shop to buy it back and it was already gone, and 2) this was JUST before CAS shooting drove the B92's prices up in this area, so I could have gotten a lot more out of it even six months later.

At least I got around 10 years of enjoyment out of it (I bought it for $280 new, so I feel I got my money's worth). And soon after, I found a nice Winchester 92 in that same shop that had been rebored/converted to .357 to replace it, so it wasn't all that bad.
I still wish I had that Browning back. They are way out of my price range now, though.

I gambled on the law being eventually passed when I first heard about it, and in May bought a NIB Marlin Cowboy in 44 mag. I spent several range sessions getting familiar with the rifle and was very impressed with it's accuracy. Then, in August, I had to have some surgery that will not allow me to deer hunt this year. :(

Hopefully, the surgery will allow me to be here to hunt next year. :)

I couldn't stand it, convinced my doc to let me hunt...... got one too . ;)

The B-92 is a slick little gun, and really beautifully made. I got a nice deal on it when the husband of a woman at work passed away, and she wanted to sell off his guns. I will have to say that the Marlin 1894 .44 mag I sold to buy it was probably a better option as a "user" gun - it fit me better and functioned without a hickup (the B-92 is very finicky about ammo length), but not much can match the quality of the little Browning, and it's quite accurate.