Should a hungry person be arrested/fined for taking wild game to feed his family? Not to be confused with poaching for fun or profit. If you were the Judge, what would you say?

Should a hungry person be arrested/fined for taking wild game to feed his family? Not to be confused with poaching for fun or profit. If you were the Judge, what would you say?


Sorry, in my book that is poaching. I doubt you could convince a judge differently. There are enough programs, food shelves etc that exist that would be better options than taking wild game illegally.

Brad S
Hebrews 10:39

At least in Alaska, there are laws and regulations that govern subsistence hunting and fishing...

yep! In Alaska there are rules and regs. Am glad I am not the Judge to make the call whether it is a just "shot" or not-what that will do for public opinion is going to be based on the judgmental call. Starvation would be the only criteria I am sure but who knows.

Out in the bush where there are no food shelves do what you got to do to survive.In the city thats another story

When I was a kid in Maine in the 40's and 50's and living in a small rural village we heard night time rifle shots at all hours of the night and early morning. They weren't constant but heard several times during the week. We all knew what was happening. We had several families with 9-10 kids to feed. These small farmers did subsistence farming, also worked in our small mills, and had hard times to feed all those mouths. We also knew our Fish and Game Wardens. They were known for frequently looking the other way when they found the farmers red handed. My Dad owned a small auto repair shop. Many of his poorer customers would pay him in venison, produce, fish, sausage, eggs, etc. as they could not pay for some of the repair jobs. When poachers for money were found red handed it was a mob mentality in our village. Some Tassachusetts poachers were actually held until the Wardens could arrive and take over. We even caught one of these a**holes with an old headstone of a young lady in the trunk of their car. Their answer was that it would look good in their basement bar!!

Whether this was right or wrong, you can be the judge. They're were no Welfare State at this time. No food, and one went hungry!

Here in NY we have more than enuf welfare programs that no poor folks get off the couch long enuf to go poaching!

Besides, they'd pawn off all their long guns for drug money, anyway.

\

Before FDR and the freeloader, oops I mean welfare system, do what you had to to feed the family. Nowdays, no way, there's a lot of programs where it's not a reason unless you're lost and in a life or death situation.

Should a hungry person be arrested/fined for taking wild game to feed his family? Not to be confused with poaching for fun or profit. If you were the Judge, what would you say?

Convict him....give him time served and probation if he can truely proove the game was required to survive, sentence him if he can't.

Convict him....give him time served and probation if he can truely proove the game was required to survive, sentence him if he can't.

That's kinda like guilty until proven innocent isn't it? If there is a clause for sustenance hunting, then the proof should be on the prosecution. However, I think poaching is poaching, and I am against poaching. But if my survival required it, you better believe I will use many illegal techniques to acquire food. I'd deal with the penalty later.

In any but very rare cases subsistence hunting legally allowed or not is a false argument around sound management and the rules and fees that apply to and protect hunting for everyone else.

All the various costs involved in hunting or even poaching make game meat quite expensive.

Fireplug

I should have made this into a poll. So far it's running near 50/ 50.

Rabbits taken with a .22 are cheap enough meat. No reasonable judge would hold it against you for killing game in a bona-fide survival situation. But, as others have said, within range of "civilization", it is pretty hard not to find more free handouts avalilable than subsistence requires, and that pretty much knocks out arguments for non-emergency subsistance hunting where the law makes no provision for it.

Should a hungry person be arrested/fined for taking wild game to feed his family? Not to be confused with poaching for fun or profit. If you were the Judge, what would you say?

It seems to me that all kinda agree on this one. We are just saying so in different ways. "If" I were that hungry man. "If I could find no other source of food. Now I am the judge! I know it is illegal. I also know that illegal does not allways=wrong. I am hungry and would do it. Would also try very hard to not get caught. I have enough trouble as it is. A good time to put all my hunting skills to work. Close range. One shot in the ear with a .22 rimfire (assumes the quarry in question has ears).

The upside of getting caught might be a bologna sandwich in the local crowbar :D .

Cheezywan

Should a hungry person be arrested/fined for taking wild game to feed his family? Not to be confused with poaching for fun or profit. If you were the Judge, what would you say?
If I was the judge and that would be a laft, I would ask how much the gun you used to kill your illegal game was worth?Q ;)

If I was the judge and that would be a laft, I would ask how much the gun you used to kill your illegal game was worth?Q ;)

but your honor, what do you think put me in the poorhouse and in this situation???

Just to clarify, some of you are confusing subsistence with what is referred to in Alaska as "Emergency taking of game".

I'm not sure how subsistence is treated elsewhere, but the Alaska Constitution requires a hierarchical system of fish and game management under four different catagories. Subsistence is the top priority, then personal use, then sport, and finally commercial use. The subsistence and personal use harvests are available to residents only. Both Federal and State agencies share management of resident subsistence hunting and fishing in Alaska. In Alaska there are also personal use regulations that allow residents to harvest fish and game from specific areas above and beyond limits in the sport regulations.

The subject of this thread is covered in the Alaska regulations under "Emergency taking of game". There are 2 catagories of emergency: First, defense of life and property, and; Second, for food in a dire emergency. A dire emergency is described as follows:

"If you are in a remote area and unintentionally run out of food and cannot expect to get food from another source soon enough, you may take wildlife as food to save your life or prevent permanent health problems...." You are then responsible for reporting the take and salvaging and turning over to the State any leftover meat.

In Maine we have a Burglary law that allows for emergency entry of any camp out in the wilds if you have no other shelter. You must leave your name and information for the camp owner to discover in the spring. In Maine it's only criminal trespass if you do not commit any other crime once in the building, such as Theft, Criminal Mischief, Arson, etc.

Are there any other states out there with the same provision????

I'm not sure what the Alaska regulations are for emergency use of private cabins on private land, but any private cabin on public land (where most are located) must be left unlocked and minimally provisioned for emergency use.

If I was the judge and that would be a laft, I would ask how much the gun you used to kill your illegal game was worth?Q ;)

I see your point! It is similar to trading your fishing pole for a big fish? You will eat well tonight, but loose your ability to catch more? One could also trap small game for a meal "out of season". What is a snare or simple trap worth? Bologna, beans, and bread are held in high regard around here.

No argument! Hungry and desperate is one thing. "Hankering" for a (pick your favorite) is not!

I recall a story titled;" Stone Soup".I remember the lesson. I have forgotten the story. It started with a pot of water and some stones.

I remember a couple of other books that "made me feel" hunger. The "Wooden Horse" and "The Tunnel". The same auther I think?

Poaching is wrong. Staying alive is OK. Anything cooked in lard "tastes" good and is bad for you.

I love lard.

Cheezywan

That's kinda like guilty until proven innocent isn't it? If there is a clause for sustenance hunting, then the proof should be on the prosecution. However, I think poaching is poaching, and I am against poaching. But if my survival required it, you better believe I will use many illegal techniques to acquire food. I'd deal with the penalty later.


Are you the reincarnation of Victor Hugo?.... for the lead in the reopening of Le Miserable?

In a purely legal sense, all that counts is if he did or didn't poach....so you convict....but the sentence can be adjusted for the circumstances....so you give time served and probation.

Kind of reminds me of those stories about people lost at sea in a rowboat having to eat each other. Interesting how far a person will go. Does the hungry man eat or starve? Court's in session.

Are you the reincarnation of Victor Hugo?.... for the lead in the reopening of Le Miserable?

In a purely legal sense, all that counts is if he did or didn't poach....so you convict....but the sentence can be adjusted for the circumstances....so you give time served and probation.

I must confess, I am unfamiliar with Les Miserables :( But, I understand where you are coming from. :)

Also, I have been thinking about this lately and what I would do if I had to hunt to survive here in TX. I decided I would kill hogs, you only need a license (which I have) and can use any technique you want, kill as many as you want and not report anything, and they aren't bad tasting either. :D The only problem may be finding land and getting permission, but nobody wants these guys around anyway so they'll welcome you.

If you own a gun and you need food, sell the gun and buy the food.

How many people do you know that are homeless that are sitting around the campfire eating deer steaks?

Nobody would miss a rabbit - if you did it one time.

If you went out and shot 1 deer every two weeks - that would be 25 deer a year + in most cases if they were doe's - would also kill the two fawns that they would have held next year so in all you just killed 75 deer.

Will the state miss 75 deer? Yep

Tell the ****** to go out and get a job and forget about living off the land.

If you are smart enough to get around the censoring software you are smart enough not to use that langauge here.

This is a family forum, remember. :mad:

Bye
Jack

I must confess, I am unfamiliar with Les Miserables :( But, I understand where you are coming from. :)

Also, I have been thinking about this lately and what I would do if I had to hunt to survive here in TX. I decided I would kill hogs, you only need a license (which I have) and can use any technique you want, kill as many as you want and not report anything, and they aren't bad tasting either. :D The only problem may be finding land and getting permission, but nobody wants these guys around anyway so they'll welcome you.


So would I...no doubt about it, the rules go out the window if breaking them is the only good way to stay alive.

But was also raised to be a man, so if they caught me, would expect to be convicted...would proably confess...but would HOPE for a court who would take my plight into account and set the punishment accordenly.

In Indiana, wild game is owned by the people of the state. Taking wild game out of season is stealing from the people who own the game. There is ample opportunity to kill deer during bow, firearms, and muzzleloader seasons. Each legal age member of the family could legally harvest at least 5 deer in their county of residence alone, and probably 5 more in each of the adjacent counties - DURING SEASON. There's legal seasons to kill wild game ranging from squirrels to beaver for almost 8 months out of the year.

There is NO EXCUSE for poaching around here. If you're that hungry, there's plenty of fish to catch all year around with no seasons. State parks and forest areas are full of walnuts, hickory nuts, mushrooms, dandelion greens, persimmons, mulberries - all sorts of edible nuts and fruits.

If your pride doesn't force you to feed yourself from legal means, or if you are infirm and unable to feed yourself, there are plenty of churches and parachurch organizations that would gladly make sure you have enough food. And STILL you haven't asked for the first government handout which is another option before needing to steal for food.

If I were the judge, I'd give out a medium sentence for the first offense. But if they had any priors, I'd prosecute to the full extent allowed by law.

Game wardens around here know many of the local people. Landowners often get passes that other don't. I'm sure in some cases, depending on the situation, possable offenses are let go with a warning. If someone appears before the judge on a game violation, there is usually good reason.

Bearing that in mind, if I was in a position of judging, I'd lienant on the first offense and increasingly tougher on future violations.

Should a hungry person be arrested/fined for taking wild game to feed his family? Not to be confused with poaching for fun or profit. If you were the Judge, what would you say?

OK this thread strikes me really funny...... I hear a bunch of hunters saying that it is better for the government to take care of the less fortunate or lazy if you will then for them to take care of themselves.

The original ? was of survival. You know we could always hunt rats in the city and live quite well I would imagine. No limit or regulations except you would have to hunt with an air rifle or blow gun. In a city dwelling there is assistance but the ? doesn't refer to other options just eat or not.

I haven't hunted in years and though I live in Texas land is hard to find to hunt on and Houston iis a city where time is even more valuable. I envy you guys that have this blessing.

Let's take the question further and ponder would theft be acceptable to live. Not armed robbery or even burglary but theft of food which is what we are speaking of. Some of you have seen it from this perspective. I was always raised that 1 should ask! The Word instructs us to do so of our Father so why should this not apply to our fellow man?

The government has taken on things that it was not ever intended to absorb. The inexcusable high taxation and erosion of the rights of the citizens has lead to socialism and its acceptance. In the past We the People attended to the poor and displaced or affirmed which used to be orphans and widows.

My point is that People help People and the government just muddies the water and squanders Our money and officials become wealthy because of it.

Ok my answer..... hunger drives one to feed, period! It is a requirement of survival. Should theft be ok....of course not.
If I or my family was hungry I would ask for help but if we were alone then I would ask God and since all things belong to him I would wait for his provision.

If that was in the form of a deer or rat or bug I would accept it and be thankful. God has taught me to fish so that I may fish for tomorrow. No license...doesn't matter. I'm hungry and need to eat until such time I can work myself out of this predicament that I have found myself in. Find land, home assistance from others who can help me put it back together.

We know many who do that every day, stand along side the road and ask for help. Do they really need it? That's not for us to judge! We just respond as the Lord would have us. Sometimes that means do nothing, sometimes give them money, sometimes go to McD's and drive back and give them food.
I know a number by name. As time goes by I get to know them better. Slow tedious process but maybe someday they will return to where they belong in their role as useful citizens.

I look at them, eat with them and think "that there but by the grace of God goes I."

I know a long and convoluted answer to a short and simple ?.

Hope that I didn't offend anyone but I think Mr. C wanted me to open up my mind in thought.

Short answer to the posed question. No!

Would those who think it would be okay feel thesame way if the poacher decided he didn't want venison tonight and, instead, decided to have filet mignon from one of YOUR purebred registered brood cows?

Theft is theft. No one is going to starve in this country. If he has too much pride to ask for help he should have too much pride to steal.

I think I will post something I wrote about this topic, but in a different venue. It will contain my opinion in the best way I can state it; without the context, the meaning is lost. Please look at it under hunting, as it is not really a general discussion topic, and tell me what you think?

Would those who think it would be okay feel thesame way if the poacher decided he didn't want venison tonight and, instead, decided to have filet mignon from one of YOUR purebred registered brood cows?

Theft is theft. No one is going to starve in this country. If he has too much pride to ask for help he should have too much pride to steal.

bagtek
Ilikeyour post;it's short and easy to understand.It's also correct for at least,most of the Country.
It may be possible that somewhere in the deep South,subsistance hunting MIGHT be the right thing to do.
But here in New York,people on Relief live better.I repeat,better,then low income citizens who are too proud to apply for it.
A while back,our city Manager tried to limit the welfare benefitsto the level of the lowest paid city employee,but the State pols rejected it as cruel and improper.
In our modern society,there is no excuse for poaching.
Frank

I was in Winston Salem North Carolina one day going to a engine shop to pick up some parts for a race team.

Along the side of the road was 3 Vietnam Veterans.

They had 3 chairs and a sign in both directions.

They went to the store and bought some string and were making them arm bracelets like they wore when they were in Nam some 37 or more years ago.

They were not asking for a handout. They were willing to work - to get money to eat.

The further I drove down the road, the more that it bothered me until I could stand it no more and turned around the car and went back.

It worked on my mind that this could have been me there standing beside the road.

A couple of days later I was in Gastonia North Carolina and there was a old man along side the road with no teeth and he had a cardboard sign that said to please help I'm hungry!

I offered to take him to the Chineese Restaraunt across the street to get something to eat and he told me where to go.

Ok, you want to say this is a family forum and you want people to watch what they say and they can't even use letters.
You all know where he told me to go and what he told me to do to myself.

He wasn't standing there because he was hungry, he was standing there because he wanted money probably to buy dope or booze.

There are people out there that could use a helping hand and I'm not ashamed to admit that I have helped as many as I could.

At the same time - you cannot live in the past - 37 years is a long time, and you cannot put up a sign that says that you need food and then refuse to take food.

Most people looking for a handout are bums.

EVen in Pennsylvania there is stuff the grows in the woods that you can pick and sell and there is stuff that you can pick and eat and can for the future and there are places where you can go to get food, surplus food and help.

You can pick up soda cans along the road, they are $.70 a pound right now.

You can haul scrap metal to a salvage yard, it is paying $200 a ton.

You can get a job doing menial labor in some powder metal factory for $7.50 a hour.

Anyone that tells you that they have to go out twice a month and shoot a deer so they can have something to eat is just a plain old bum.

When you offer then a ride to go for Surplus Food or to the food bank they are too busy to go. Have other things to do, or just plain forgot. That's the excuses that I hear.

Take all their weapons and make them get a job and keep a job - put them on a couple of years probation so that they cannot go back to their old ways.

Once you hold their hands a little, they will expect it the rest of their lives.

And isn't that exactly what our Governments handouts do! A lifetime of votes and payouts.
Greg

I never thought of that. It is paying for votes. It really is. But so is zoning changes and the like. Wonder how many developers are major contributors to local council? They know the poor smucks that get a mortgage for those houses probably won't go vote anyway. Or the people that move out of the zoned changed area because of the development won't ever vote in that area again. Sweet deal.

Here in Illinois it has long been illegal to give, sell any portion of wild game to another person. Yet there is now this program where hunters can donate their kill to feed the hungry. It's a simple way for people to feel good about taking game they don't intend to use themselves. Now instead of dumping the carcase off a bridge they can give it away. Wouldn't it make more sense to hand out a free permit to the needy and let them collect their own game?
Food Stamps, or Link Cards as they are used here cost a lot of money to the taxpayer. We are over run with deer. Why not give the poor a chance to feed themselves? If then they are not willing to hunt their own food, take away their Public Aide.

Here in Illinois it has long been illegal to give, sell any portion of wild game to another person. Yet there is now this program where hunters can donate their kill to feed the hungry. It's a simple way for people to feel good about taking game they don't intend to use themselves. Now instead of dumping the carcase off a bridge they can give it away. Wouldn't it make more sense to hand out a free permit to the needy and let them collect their own game?
Food Stamps, or Link Cards as they are used here cost a lot of money to the taxpayer. We are over run with deer. Why not give the poor a chance to feed themselves? If then they are not willing to hunt their own food, take away their Public Aide.

I can think of all sorts of headaches with that program.

Picture that comes into mind is a couch patatoe borrowing a gun and heads out to fill his larder. Armed with maybe no woodsmanship or knowledge of game habits and a desire "to get it over with".

Not having a clue how to process the meat providing he gets a bullet in a critter. I can envision a fawn with 2 broken legs and a gut shot.

Sounds yummy to me! LOL

Wouldn't it make more sense to hand out a free permit to the needy and let them collect their own game?

NO, not really. Those who take part in these programs in my area are mainly the elderly who have lived on deer meat all their lives. Women who are widows and never hunted, but have cooked deer meat for over 50 years. I think it only right that they should have access to what they have always ate.

Second. Some of us think that game is better for our health because it is natural food, not processed and full of chemicals. I for one, buy only local farm raised chickens and eggs, no factory poultry for me fellas.

Most hunters I know, old and young, are good caring community members who are not out to just shot a deer, they would not even apprehend that mentality! They volunteer to give up a portion of their kill to feed the poor and elderly. Believe me, those on the receiving end will not sell their deer at beef prices and I assure you they are not going to sell it for liquor money. That is how life is here, still decent and the way I hope it remains as long as I live.

Why not give the poor a chance to feed themselves? If then they are not willing to hunt their own food, take away their Public Aide.

It was to this statement my previous post was directed toward. I usually gift out unused meat when the new season rolls around. There is a program here that encourages it. Sportsmen Against Hunger. Another that welcomes game is Cornorstone Rescue Mission

Quote(Second. Some of us think that game is better for our health because it is natural food, not processed and full of chemicals. I for one, buy only local farm raised chickens and eggs, no factory poultry for me fellas.)
it's basically the same stuff, factory cages are smaller.
unless you buy level 5 organic it all has chemicals.In canada organic is full organic not reduced fertilizer.oops off topic.

In MB you can apply for special susdinces hunting permits that allow you to unt for your food. primarily farther north communities where everything is flownin and people can't afford it.

I guess it depends on the situation. I can't quite feature subsistence needs in cases where the violater employed a relatively new 4x4 pickup, his ATV, and a 19 foot boat with a new 200 Yamaha Outboard on the back of it.
Know what I mean....?
Or....If he has a meth problem and ran out of cash for food.
Or ...maybe he got fired for testing pos on the pee test for weed.

There are a few cases when I can see it. but... in those cases, like the old soudough or young survivalist living off the land out in the middle of the wilderness...no game warden is going after them....anyway.

Like most of you eluded to...is the guy really too poor to afford food? Or would he rather spend his money on smokes and booze???

Jim

In Maine a driver who hits a deer on a public way can keep the deer or give it away with a Game Warden Permit. Years ago the state (Maine) kept the deer, gave it to jails and paid the driver a stipend. It did not work out so now the driver keeps the deer, etc. Well we had a problem. Some city slickers did not want the meat and didn't know who to give it to and many cops, public works employees, firefighters of the local town would wind up with the meat. Well in my town (Fairfield, Maine ) I had a resolution passed by the town council with an assist from Game Wardens. Employees would not get the meat. A Game Warden certified Viet Nam vet on a venison diet because of heart trouble would be called to the scene of the car-deer accident. He would take the deer, cut up the meat, keep 25% of it and donate the rest to our local food pantries. The meat was packed up in pound amounts and kept in a separate freezer from other meats per state law. Clients would be given the opportunity to ask for the meat for their families. That way no favoritism was given to town employees, Wardens did not have to come to the scene of every car-deer accident, the driver could make a choice of keeping or knowing that if he didn't want it would go for a good cause.

Jean Pouliot

If you own a gun and you need food, sell the gun and buy the food.

And just how much food would they be able to buy with the $100.00 to $300.00 they get from selling thier gun?
After the food was gone, they would be back in the same position but even worse off now as they no longer have a gun to be able to provide for them selfes.


Hunting has become to much of a sport for the rich, the prices of a Lic./tag are getting to the point where only the wealthy can afford to buy them.

I think a Lic./Tag should be made available to the very low income/disabled/etc for free or a very low cost (restrictions to taking game in over stocked areas, not allowed to take a trophy size buck and other restriction would probably be needed), and the prices of Lic./tags for sport hunters after horns should be increased.
Maybe the cost of Lic./tag's should be a certain percentage of your yearly income, that would make it easier on the very low income people.


Michael Grace

I think a Lic./Tag should be made available to the very low income/disabled/etc for free or a very low cost (restrictions to taking game in over stocked areas, not allowed to take a trophy size buck and other restriction would probably be needed), and the prices of Lic./tags for sport hunters after horns should be increased.
Maybe the cost of Lic./tag's should be a certain percentage of your yearly income, that would make it easier on the very low income people.


Michael Grace

Michael, here in AK they do have a low income license. The combination hunting sportfishing license is $5.00.

Hunting has become to much of a sport for the rich, the prices of a Lic./tag are getting to the point where only the wealthy can afford to buy them.

Michael Grace


How much is a small game license nowadays? I am betting in most places it is under $20.

Jim

Around here I have no problem with anyone shooting all the deer they can eat. I understand things are different in other venues. Our limit is 12 or so per year.

I can't even guess how many pounds of venison is road killed in Georgia.

I really don't understand this limit we have in Maine. One deer per year with all kinds of restrictions, etc. PA is as bad if not worse than GA, with road kills everywhere.

Usually around here I don't think they are really doing it because that is their only means of providing for their family. They will go out and spot light deer and come back home to enjoy their beer and cigarrettes. Then they will sleep till noon and complain until four or so about how "the man" is keeping them down and not "giving" them a job. In my part of the country there is plenty of help around either through public programs or churches. I say convict.

Out here in my neck of the woods if you don't have a job it's because you don't want to work. Any and I mean any real go getter can get off the jet here and have 3 jobs in a week if he wanted too. Locals don't want to work, it's an ingrained government thing to have everything given too you instead of actually working for it.

There is no such thing as Subsistance as practised 60 or more years ago.

I have a disabled liscense for hunting game and fishing. It does not allow trapping, and I must buy tags just like everyone else.
I live in an area that is classified "subsistence" by the Federal Government, but not by the State of Alaska. I must get a seperate set of tags to hunt only on Federal land.
We have what is called a Tier II system to qualify for "subsistence priority", based on location, traditional use, number of years, ethnic background, for which ADFG assigns points. I like to call it the "LIARS SHEET".

AlleninAlaska, I sent the boys a box a few days ago. Hope they enjoy.

If you could prove that this person could only feed himself and maybe his family by breaking the law and probably teaching his kids that it was o.k. to break the law than say, oh, maybe selling the rifle or shotgun and not having to buy ammo and using this money to buy food, or maybe GETTING A **** JOB, then, sure, let him go. But I don't believe you could. As for doing what you have to "in the bush", laws are laws no matter what the real estate looks like. And there are also laws against helping someone break the law (Aidind and abetting) or knowing about it and not reporting it (accesory after the fact). I don't agree with all the laws but I do my very best not to break them. And remember, when somebody kills a critter illegally, that's one that somebody else didn't get to take LEGALLY! Think about that when you buy your hunting license. If you buy one.

I remember a time in Alaska. There was a subsistence fishery for red salmon. The picture in the paper showed a dirt road filled with motorhomes,mercedes and brand new 4x4 pick-ups. Do we still need subsistence from the wild?Q :(

In my case it's one of the only ways I can get a shot at a caribou. If I had lots a money and maybe an air boat or an airplane, or the physical agility of an 18 year old, I could just jump out of the rig and hike the necessary miles, and haul the meat out on my back. As AlleninAlaska said, there is no true subsistence. It's a pigeon hole the state and feds put you into to limit access to a resource that "everyone" pays to maintain mandated by Alaska's Constitution. This states resources were not intended or managed for non-consumptive users. Part of the problem is politics plays a major roll in who is on the game board. When the Dem's have it, pro non-consumptive boards rule. No predator control, and limited or shut down of areas to hunt. Lots of "Buffer Zones" get bigger or new ones pop up.
As far as starving or breaking the law? First I am going to survive, then worry about the consequences.
There is not a soul in Alaska that cannot order their food in bulk, have their meat flown in, or even try to raise a cow and butcher it for food. Food Bank of Alaska is great about helping indigent and poor when times get hard. You can drive into Brother Francis Shelter and Soup Kitchen and get 3 squares a day with a little preaching on the side.
You can do/get anything if you have enough money...without it it's a very short trip down. Sell your gun? That would take care of a few staples and some meat. If you have two, trade it for a tent( good luck finding a place legal to pitch it near welfare. Oh ya, no address, no welfare.)
Get work? If you are disabled or impaired, I wish you the best of luck.
What you would or would not do is difficult until your faced with the individual circumstances. Here's hoping you never have to make that decision, or at least have a sympathetic judge. Your best bet might be to sell what you can, file bankruptcy, and let the state sell the rest. Then you are in a position to get all the benefits of our very generous society.

Was this an Alaska only topic? If so, then I need to bow out. If not, then I know there are a lot of people here in Mississippi that are supposedly disabled and don't hunt and get by just fine. But I think it would be better if I quit before this turns into a big ole p***ing contest. Thank you, gentlemen.

It wasn't an Alaskan only topic. As long as everyone remains cordial, even if disagreeing, and the topic stays focused, I don't think it will turn out to be anything but a discussion.

I think there is subsistence hunting taking place in the Ozarks. One old lady asked my wife if I would shoot some squirrels for her to eat. Another old woman lives off game because, according to my wife’s friend, she would have to sell her burial site to get the welfare to help. I agree some might abuse the subsistence right being discussed in Alaska, however, I think some poor old folks are subsistence hunters and never seen or would be inclined to see the inside of a welfare office.

To me where I live and how I feel about things in general, it would depend on several things.

To name a couple,

If a guy had hungry kids and was doing his best and was proud and didn't want welfare I would help him drag it out.

If he was in a nice 4X4 and wanted to eat wild game instead of beef, I bet I could find a 800 number somewhere, and someone happy to chat to about it..

To me where I live and how I feel about things in general, it would depend on several things.

To name a couple,

If a guy had hungry kids and was doing his best and was proud and didn't want welfare I would help him drag it out.

If he was in a nice 4X4 and wanted to eat wild game instead of beef, I bet I could find a 800 number somewhere, and someone happy to chat to about it..

Marlin
I think that a man with starving children might be a better Father if he "swallowed his pride" and applied for Wwlfare.
For his own sake,and for other adults,it's a different scenerio.
Here in New York,where welfare people live better then low income people,some folks would rather die.
I recall,a few years ago,an elderly couple,in a rual Upstate area,died of starvation/body heat loss.They were eligeble for Welfare for many years,but chose to sell their property and possesions instead.When they ran out of things to sell,they died.Because they were not on the list of "official poor people"no government agency cared.Because they were in a secluded place,with no known Family,no help was available.
It was a true tragedy.
On th other hand,if "doing his best"included any work that he could find,help from Friends might be enough to see him through his problem.
Frank

--We have a special permit here that allows a property owner to kill thirteen deer and more if crop damage is proven. If the owner obtains the permit, should he be able to let someone else go kill the deer in his place? Wouldn't that be the same thing as giving the meat away?

"Marlin
I think that a man with starving children might be a better Father if he "swallowed his pride" and applied for Wwlfare."

As I said, " how you feel" I would say a man should walk a mile in another shoes before he made to harsh a judgment in a matter such as this. I have no idea but those " old folks" made their choice. It was theirs to make, whether we agree a or not.
Kinda a case in point is my Dad. His Father died in 1934 leaving my grandmother and 4 kids with practically nothing. I know this would have hurt my Grandfather as he was born wealthy but the family money was lost in 29. The government took the ranch for taxes her Grandfather had came west in a covered wagon and homesteaded in New Mexico. They made it to Yucaipa Calif. with $20 left and a old car with used tires. 10 of that 20 was spent on a tent to live in. There was no welfare. Grandma found a guy with a orchard they could pitch the tent in. They all survived. Dad has always been independent, owned his own small contracting business. Never made lots of money but he was/is his own man. He is on a small fixed income now and is eligible for food stamps. I think he would go hungry before he would accept them.

Lets not argue this but I will stand by my earlier post.
Swallowing one's pride is not what built this great nation even if that and political correctness does seem to be the popular way of thinking in todays America.

I am not wanting to go here either, but am not a fan of all this give em everything for our current immigrants legal or not. Or if the bully picks on you don't cower, and run for protection. Hit him with a stick if you have to but be your own man. I am the one to look me in the face, in the mirror in the morning, if you know what I mean.
Sorry I got on a rant here.

"Marlin
I think that a man with starving children might be a better Father if he "swallowed his pride" and applied for Wwlfare."

As I said, " how you feel" I would say a man should walk a mile in another shoes before he made to harsh a judgment in a matter such as this. I have no idea but those " old folks" made their choice. It was theirs to make, whether we agree a or not.
Kinda a case in point is my Dad. His Father died in 1934 leaving my grandmother and 4 kids with practically nothing. I know this would have hurt my Grandfather as he was born wealthy but the family money was lost in 29. The government took the ranch for taxes her Grandfather had came west in a covered wagon and homesteaded in New Mexico. They made it to Yucaipa Calif. with $20 left and a old car with used tires. 10 of that 20 was spent on a tent to live in. There was no welfare. Grandma found a guy with a orchard they could pitch the tent in. They all survived. Dad has always been independent, owned his own small contracting business. Never made lots of money but he was/is his own man. He is on a small fixed income now and is eligible for food stamps. I think he would go hungry before he would accept them.

Lets not argue this but I will stand by my earlier post.
Swallowing one's pride is not what built this great nation even if that and political correctness does seem to be the popular way of thinking in todays America.

I am not wanting to go here either, but am not a fan of all this give em everything for our current immigrants legal or not. Or if the bully picks on you don't cower, and run for protection. Hit him with a stick if you have to but be your own man. I am the one to look me in the face, in the mirror in the morning, if you know what I mean.
Sorry I got on a rant here.

Marlin
I'm not here to argue.
I was born in 1930;that is the depth of the Great Depression.
My Mother's Family had just lost their Farm,and moved to the City(Newburgh).I was born in The City(NYC)and my Father was a Policeman,with a steady job.
He was thus ableto help his In-Laws survive.
When He died,My Mother took me with her back home to her Mother.Previous to that,My Aunt was killed in a car crash;her two children were taken in by my Grandmother because their father deserted them,
We all lived"day to day",but survived because the Family "stuck together".
We never needed any Public Assistance,but we were always working or looking for work.I had a steady job,after school(grade school) at age 14.
My point is that it's better to do it yourself,if you can;but if you can't,it's not "fatherly" to starve helpless children.
Just Opinion
Frank

.

I did not think it was an Alaska only topic either. It is probably one of the last places in the country where a subsistence classification exists.
I did not mean to hi-jack the thread.

--A few years back there was an older woman that lived alone on the outskirts of town that was arrested for killing a neighbor's herford cow. The evidence was plain. A two mile long blood trail from the pasture, down the road, leading to this woman's front yard.
--A big spreading maple tree with a chain hoist and a 1200 pound cow swinging is pretty hard to miss. As I recall she got 3 months in the new jail and eventually paid a modest fine.
--During the brief court appearence the judge asked her why she killed the cow. "I was hungry" she answered. The cow's owner was at the hearing and only asked for her to pay for the replacement of the animal. Over time she kept her word and paid for the cow.
--I've met this woman and she seems to be a nice person, but she was just "hungry".

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I think a Lic./Tag should be made available to the very low income/disabled/etc for free or a very low cost
Michael Grace


I believe licenses should be free to everyone.

I also believe everyone should obey the law.

I remember a time in Alaska. There was a subsistence fishery for red salmon. The picture in the paper showed a dirt road filled with motorhomes,mercedes and brand new 4x4 pick-ups. Do we still need subsistence from the wild?Q :(

Again, the Alaska Constitution provides for 4 kinds of fish and game harvest: commercial, sport, personal use, and subsistence. You are confusing a "personbal use" fishery for "subsistence". Any Alaska resident can participate in State run "personal use" fisheries but, as others here have explained, in most cases the Federal govt. decides who qualifies to hunt and fish under "subsistence" regulations.

Overall I don't see subsistence in Alaska as a bad thing. I'm sure that many of those on the subsistence list don't need subsistence to survive and some who abuse the system. But there are also some people in Alaska who do need subsistence to survive and others who have real cultural and traditional needs for subsistence here as well. I think there is still enough fish and game here to provide for those few.

In Oklahoma subsistence is not a reason to kill game animals because all you need to do is call a Game Ranger and ask for some wild game meat. Our states Feed The Hungry program pays for processing the deer donations and anyone that needs it can get it. I don't know if you even have to qualify and prove your need or not. This eliminates the excuse that you killed it because "I was hungry".