I've been reloading for about two years now, and up until recently I've only reloaded for my 1903a3, m1's and k31's. I've determined the max OAL by using fired cartridges with the mouth bent in a little and inserted the particular bullet then placed them in the chamber, closed the bolt, removed the cartridge and measured the OAL (repeated several times), then set the bullet back .010 - .030 when seating. On the m1's I seat the bullet to 3.340 and crimp using a Lee crimp die. This worked fine for the above mentioned rifles, and the groups have been very tight.

I bought a couple of m96 swedes in the past year and a half, but only shot Wolf gold 6.5x55 through them because it was relatively cheap and performed well. I wanted to get an m38, but the prices have been getting so ridiculous, I opted to buy a Ruger M77 in 6.5x55. It was a little less than what some of hte better m38's are currently going for, brand new, and can handle higher pressures than the old swedes.

I picked up some Win 6.5x55 brass and some RP-PSP bullets at a local reloading supply store. I sized and trimmed the brass, checked some reloading manuals for powder and charges, then set about putting together some rounds to take to the range. Now, since it was a bolt action, I figured I'll just seat them and be ready to go. When I used the old fired case/bullet in the chamber measure trick, I was a little dismayed the bullet didn't get pushed into the case at all, and retried this several times. After determining that I was not going to get he bullet anyhwere close to the lands, I realized I was just going to have set them at the SAAMI OAL of 3.150 and live with it.

So, a couple of weeks ago I went out to the range to try my loads out. 43 - 47 grains of H4831 behind the PSP's were clocking from about 2240 to 2498, and there was a spread of at least 100 fps in the individual load measurements. I was getting 2-4" groups at 100 yds. I began to wonder if this new rifle was just a piece of junk... I didn't get a chance to get through the 50 rounds I had loaded up that weekend, since I took time to clean every few rounds.

I started search the web and boards to see if I could figure this out. Now in the past I've only heard that crimping is recommended for semi auto rifles, tube mag rifles, and handguns. A lot of the stuff I've seen recommends not crimping, and a lot of people have written they rarely do this. I have also read that due to the amount of freebore in the 6.5x55, a lot of people do not get very good accuracy with any thing other than the 160 grain bullets. However, I did read a post on one board about a M77 in 6.5x55 that was a tack driver with the same components I was using, so I figured there had to be a way to do it. I read about putting a 3rd party trigger in, glass bedding etc. Then I read a post that recommended using a Lee Factory Crimp Die. The rational was that the crimp provides uniform starting pressure, just as seat close to the lands does. I figured it was worth a try, so ordered one from MidwayUSA last weekend. I received the die in the mail yesterday, so I crimped the remaining loads I had. I took the rifle and the loads out to the range today. My 43 grain loads clocked around 2350, 44 were 50 more. 45 was about 2450, 46 - 2500, 47 - 2550. I haven't figured out the SD's, but the highest and lowest measurements had a spread of about 40 on the low end and 10 on the high end. I was quite impressed with the difference over last session. The worst groups were just under an inch; the best group was with the 46 grain load were I got a 3/8" group of three bullets at 100 yds. Definately the best 8-9 dollars I've spent to improve my groups in a while. I've always been a big fan of Lee's dies because of cost and quality. For me this is one more reason to stick with them.

I just thought I would share my experience, in case there's anybody out there in the same situation. If anybody has a favorite die other than Lee, that's fine. I'm just describing what worked for me.

I realize there are people out there that probably already know about crimping rifle cartridges...

And I'll probably still have something done about the M77 trigger - it just doesn't feel quite right.

Craig - You are on the right track. However, less S.D.'s are not always the biggest indicator of accuracy, although the smaller the number the better chance the powder is a good choice IMO. Bullet weight and design match-up with your particular rifle's barrel has a great effect on accuracy. I have a M96 and a CZ550FS in 6.5X55, and like your rifles I'm also dealing with two different pressure criteria regarding loading limits. It's not that the "Swede" is not strong enough to handle your "Ruger" loads (it is made of excellent steel), but it does not have the gas ports to alleviate the effects of a "pearced" primer or a "separated" case that lets go due to a "pressure spike" from to "hot" a load or a "mistake" (which we all can make :( ). The amount of "freebore" can certainly help in reducing pressure, but usually doesn't help accuracy; I've not found it a problem with the M96 on reducing OAL and as you have found, there is little choice when using the "shorter" bullets. The Swede also has a "steeper" twist of 7 1/4 than the Ruger and 140gr (and up) bullets usually print closer to the sights than the faster, lighter bullets (mine loves the 160RN Hornady). To crimp or not is up to you, ie. if it seems to improve accuracy (as Lee claims) do it, for it is the only die to my knowledge that does not require a "crimping groove" to be effective. (I use them a lot in "levers" and some "hard kicking" big bolt guns.) The most important part related to crimping is C.O.A.L (make sure your cases are not too long), even though Lee states, correctly, that their crimping die is not dependent on OAL, making sure the cases are all trimmed the same theoritically "imparts" the same amount of bullet pull when the case is fired. As for your Ruger trigger, I'd get a "Timney" replacement, which to me is the only "down side" of the excellent Ruger 77 (new "Hawkeye" rugers have, reportedly fixed the trigger problem). Besure and keep your "test" ammo for both your rifles separated until you can, for sure, determine that what works in one is not over "max" for the other (the Swede's maximum is usually set at 45,000PSI where that is just getting your Ruger started). Congrats on your purchases and I hope you enjoy them to the MAX :D . Riley

Craig,

Congratulations on finding a "cure". The slower the powder, the more having significant start pressure helps. Note that when you changed the start pressure you also affected how quickly the chamber pressure peaked, and also the barrel time, which alters the position of sweet spots. You also lowered the residual pressure at the muzzle by burning the powder a little earlier in the barrel. High muzzle pressure exaggerates the effect of any muzzle crown or bullet base imperfection.

I bought a beautifully smooth m38 for $89 at a show a few years back. My experience is that when long, heavy bullets are used (I am assuming you have the 140 grain and not the 120 grain Remington PSP?) a very slow powder, like Reloader 25, can fill the case and burn pretty completely.

It is not so commonly known, but it appears, probably also for the reason of affecting start pressure and barrel time, that seating depth can have more than one sweet spot, and it isn’t always up near the lands. Read this post (http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/Englisch/Laddertest.htm).

M72 match, which was last loaded with 46.5 grains of IMR 4895, I think in 1972, was famous for the fact its velocity was 80 fps slower when the powder was forward in the case than when it was back over the flashhole (tip the muzzle down or up before firing). Any case filled less than 90-95% exhibits at least a bit of this problem. M72 is about 85% full. Your lower loads probably have a bit of this problem. Regardless of that variation, M72 was reasonably accurate ammunition.

Probably have more Swedes in the vaults than most folks here on the board.

My pet load for all of them is 46.5 gr H4831SC, a BR2 primer and W-W brass, pushing a 129 gr Hornady SST bullet at around 2750 - 2800 fps. I do not crimp these loads. Accuracy is generally around MOA or less.

On the Swedes, they have lots of freebore due to the long military full jacketed 140 gr bullet. The limiting COAL for them (if used as a hunting rifle) is set by magazine length - not distance off the lands.

The Ruger M77 has less free bore and should correspond to allowable magazine length better to get bullets near the lands.

To determine the COAL with the bullet near the lands, I take a jeweler's saw and split the case neck down to the shoulder in 4 pieces on a previously full length sized case that is trimmed to minimum. You can then finger press the sections together, insert a bullet of choice by hand to where the case will support it, but not pushed any further. This is snapped to the bolt face with the extractor claw holding it in place, the bolt carefully inserted into the action and the bolt closed. Then the dummy cartridge is withdrawn just as carefully and the length measured. This is done no less than three times to assure the same measurement. With that, you can back off whatever distance floats your boat - .010 - .020" and call it good. This length will normally not function through the military magazines.

Some folks will tell you this method isn't a positive step because of "bullet pull" from the case upon withdrawing from the chamber, but I've yet to find this to be the case (no pun!).

You can also seat a bullet in a FL sized case, paint the bullet black with a magic marker and check for land markings on the bullet body upon extraction. Keep seating the bullet deeper until the marks no longer appear and then add the normal .010" - .020". land standoff.

Probably have more Swedes in the vaults than most folks here on the board.



I think you have more Swedes than ALL the folks on the boards! :D

I think you have more Swedes than ALL the folks on the boards! :D

That sounds like a challenge Even the differences between Swede manufacture Military and civilian firearm chambers is very evident. A model 1600 Swede sporter has a much shorter throat. A 160 grain will have to be seated quite deep in the case. A 140 grain hits the lands when loaded to my M96's or M38's preference. Shoots well, but a scope may help it. That is another project. JP

I appreciate the replies - a lot of good info; some things I hadn't quite considered, so thanks...

I stopped by the Gander Mountain store after work today to get some RL22 - Hoping to get more velocity out of this rifle. Thinking of an antelope hunt.

While I was there I noticed they were having a sale on Mosin M44's. I found a 1944 Tula that looked as though it had never been issued - nice markings, etc. I put it back on the rack and walked around looking at the other stuff. I told myself I didn't really need this, so I went to the counter and checked out. After stopping at the grocery store to pick up a few things, I was still thinking about the Mosin. I said to myself - You've got the Izzy - you need a Tula... My truck took me 180 degrees out of the way back to GM; I asked if they had any other rifles in the back I could look at - the clerk replied no - I said 'well I guess I need this one'...

Guess I need to sell off some of my dups and stuff I don't need. I got my taxes done a couple weeks ago, and now I'm thinking of buying an M1A - Ahhhgggh... stop the insanity!!!

I appreciate the replies - a lot of good info; some things I hadn't quite considered, so thanks...

I stopped by the Gander Mountain store after work today to get some RL22 - Hoping to get more velocity out of this rifle. Thinking of an antelope hunt.

While I was there I noticed they were having a sale on Mosin M44's. I found a 1944 Tula that looked as though it had never been issued - nice markings, etc. I put it back on the rack and walked around looking at the other stuff. I told myself I didn't really need this, so I went to the counter and checked out. After stopping at the grocery store to pick up a few things, I was still thinking about the Mosin. I said to myself - You've got the Izzy - you need a Tula... My truck took me 180 degrees out of the way back to GM; I asked if they had any other rifles in the back I could look at - the clerk replied no - I said 'well I guess I need this one'...

Guess I need to sell off some of my dups and stuff I don't need. I got my taxes done a couple weeks ago, and now I'm thinking of buying an M1A - Ahhhgggh... stop the insanity!!!


There is no end! ;)

Heh! Heh! Heh! -

When you get the itch, you gotta scratch! :D