I love the shooting sports because there is so many different avenues you can pursue. I'm not really into Military rifles except I keep seeing ads and at gun shows some of the old bolt actions. I'm seeing Russian Mosin M44 and M91/30 for 75 to 80 Dollars and Swiss K-31 for about $175.00. My question to those who are into these types of guns is can I buy one of these and the inexpensive ammo and safely shoot them? At these prices it's tempting to try them out but I know nothing about them. If safety is not an issue maybe you can have a lot of fun with a minimum investment? :confused:

I have to include the Enfield #4 MK1 I also keep seeing for a little over $110.00.

I love the shooting sports because there is so many different avenues you can pursue. I'm not really into Military rifles except I keep seeing ads and at gun shows some of the old bolt actions. I'm seeing Russian Mosin M44 and M91/30 for 75 to 80 Dollars and Swiss K-31 for about $175.00. My question to those who are into these types of guns is can I buy one of these and the inexpensive ammo and safely shoot them? At these prices it's tempting to try them out but I know nothing about them. If safety is not an issue maybe you can have a lot of fun with a minimum investment? :confused:

I have to include the Enfield #4 MK1 I also keep seeing for a little over $110.00.


Oh My, A convert in the making!! Yes the 91/30 is a great rifle, very easy recoil, and very accurate! The M44 is a shorter model of the 91/30 but has much more felt recoil. Ammo will run around .14 cents a round(7.62x54r). The M95 is another great carbine, ammo is a little higher in price, but an excellent rifle/ round. The K31 is the best of the bunch. is is so accurate, ammo is expensive, but well worth it. 8mm is all done, so unless you have a stock of 8x57, don't bother. A Wasr2 AK74 is also a great buy now, at 289.00 for the new Wasr2 and 149.00 for 1080 rounds of 5.45x39 it is the best deal there is. The 7.62x54r is a great deal, but it will also be gone soon. You missed the best(last 20) years! JP

Oh My, A convert in the making!! Yes the 91/30 is a great rifle, very easy recoil, and very accurate! The M44 is a shorter model of the 91/30 but has much more felt recoil. Ammo will run around .14 cents a round(7.62x54r). The M95 is another great carbine, ammo is a little higher in price, but an excellent rifle/ round. The K31 is the best of the bunch. is is so accurate, ammo is expensive, but well worth it. 8mm is all done, so unless you have a stock of 8x57, don't bother. A Wasr2 AK74 is also a great buy now, at 289.00 for the new Wasr2 and 149.00 for 1080 rounds of 5.45x39 it is the best deal there is. The 7.62x54r is a great deal, but it will also be gone soon. You missed the best(last 20) years! JP
Do you reload for any of them or just buy the surplus ammo & if so which is easiest to reload for?

Do you reload for any of them or just buy the surplus ammo & if so which is easiest to reload for?

jpattersonnh gave you solid advice. It is possible to reload for any of the surplus arms calibers available on the market. Surplus ammo is available and when it is not, I reload. All the best...
Gil

jpattersonnh gave you solid advice. It is possible to reload for any of the surplus arms calibers available on the market. Surplus ammo is available and when it is not, I reload. All the best...
Gil

Now I think you two are going to cost me some money! But at least at those prices it won't be enough to get me in trouble! Thanks

Ok, now you have me really reading the shotgun news. I gotta ask some more questions. Is it worth paying $10.00 more for them to hand pick you one? Maybe you would rather buy it at a gunshow where you can pick it? Also is there any ammo to avoid? And finally if I buy a K-31 I see Stripper clips for them. Are they necessary? :confused:
Thanks ahead of time!

Stripper clips are not required to load any mil surp, especially the K-31.

As mentioned, the K-31 would be the pick of the litter. An extremely well made rifle - almost (bear with me) as good as a Swede Mod 96 or 38. :p

Graf & Sons carry a line of fairly inexpensive boxer primed ammo for this 7.5x55 cartridge. Sometimes they have their house brand of unloaded cases available, but they go fast. Although .307" bullet, the standard .308" can safely be loaded for it with great results.

A disassembly manual is a good thing to have for field stripping the bolt.

Various manufacturers make both side and "scout" type non-gunsmithing scope mounts that add to the rifle's inherent accuracy. Just installed a S&K scout mount to mine and it works well with a Burris 2x7 Signature posi-lock pistol scope. You may want to install a strap-on cheek rest for better cheek weld when mounting a scope.

I have both Russian MN's, Swede's and the Schmidt-Rubin K-31 for mil surp's. The Swedes and the K-31 are my favorites.

Stripper clips are not required to load any mil surp, especially the K-31.

As mentioned, the K-31 would be the pick of the litter. An extremely well made rifle - almost (bear with me) as good as a Swede Mod 96 or 38. :p

Graf & Sons carry a line of fairly inexpensive boxer primed ammo for this 7.5x55 cartridge. Sometimes they have their house brand of unloaded cases available, but they go fast. Although .307" bullet, the standard .308" can safely be loaded for it with great results.

A disassembly manual is a good thing to have for field stripping the bolt.

Various manufacturers make both side and "scout" type non-gunsmithing scope mounts that add to the rifle's inherent accuracy. Just installed a S&K scout mount to mine and it works well with a Burris 2x7 Signature posi-lock pistol scope. You may want to install a strap-on cheek rest for better cheek weld when mounting a scope.

I have both Russian MN's, Swede's and the Schmidt-Rubin K-31 for mil surp's. The Swedes and the K-31 are my favorites.


Now I gotta ask what are the Swede 96 & 48 like and are they available as cheaply as the others? How are they different?

kdub is correct, the K31 is the pick of the litter, and is easy to reload. It runs close to the .308 in all respects. The Swede's are in a class by themselves. You can reload for all surplus rifles. I started w/ a 1918 GEW98 years ago. Even though ammo was real cheap back then, I started to reload for it, for hunting. I am glad I have a stock of ammo for the rifles I shoot. A 24/47 or M48(a) will serve you well also, but 8mm is getting scarce. There is some metal case Romanian around, but that is it. A 91/30 is a great deal, and you can buy plenty of surplus ammo for it. I just picked up 440 rounds of Hungarian light ball from Aim for $39.00. After shipping it is still .10 cents a round. I shoot m48's,
MN 91/30's, K31's, Swede M96's and m38's,#4Mk1, M95's, etc, and love them all!! Great fun on a short budget, but be careful, they are addicting. If you do buy one let me know. I have manuals on my computer and will gladly send you what you need! Jim

kdub is correct, the K31 is the pick of the litter, and is easy to reload. It runs close to the .308 in all respects. The Swede's are in a class by themselves. You can reload for all surplus rifles. I started w/ a 1918 GEW98 years ago. Even though ammo was real cheap back then, I started to reload for it, for hunting. I am glad I have a stock of ammo for the rifles I shoot. A 24/47 or M48(a) will serve you well also, but 8mm is getting scarce. There is some metal case Romanian around, but that is it. A 91/30 is a great deal, and you can buy plenty of surplus ammo for it. I just picked up 440 rounds of Hungarian light ball from Aim for $39.00. After shipping it is still .10 cents a round. I shoot m48's,
MN 91/30's, K31's, Swede M96's and m38's,#4Mk1, M95's, etc, and love them all!! Great fun on a short budget, but be careful, they are addicting. If you do buy one let me know. I have manuals on my computer and will gladly send you what you need! Jim

I've been twitching the last couple of months looking at the ads and seeing them at gun shows but you guys have me quivering now so I guess it's just a manner of time. I'll let you know when I pick one up and thanks for the help. :)

MB -

The Swede M94's, 96's and 38's are probably the most expensive of the mil surp's on the market today, average bolt action rifle compared to average bolt action rifle. They are in 6.5x55 chambering, while the K-31 is 7.5x55 and the MN 91/30's and 44's are 7.62x54R. The 8mm Mauser's are 8x57.

As mentioned, be careful - they tend to breed in the gun vaults or closets, one begetting another until before you know it, you have an armory or them. :D

OK, now you have me really reading the shotgun news. I gotta ask some more questions. Is it worth paying $10.00 more for them to hand pick you one? Maybe you would rather buy it at a gun show where you can pick it? Also is there any ammo to avoid? And finally if I buy a K-31 I see Stripper clips for them. Are they necessary? :confused:
Thanks ahead of time!

Mike,
The hand picks are usually the better firearms of the bunch. Over time, you may see that some dealers overstate the condition of their surplus arms. If you are not familiar with the NRA grading system of used firearms it would be good to review the terms. See the link below. For example, Good Condition means it may not be all that good. So it depends. All the best...
Gil

http://oldguns.net/info.htm

I have a Turk Mauser. I got it for $110 and it was almost new. Soviet Army captured and stored for almost 60 years. I have almost 1,700 rounds of 8mm that cost me about $80 at the time. Jim is correct, it is getting hard to get at this time. My M44 was also a steal at $45, brand new. I have over 1,000 rounds of milsurp ammo for this also. My Enfield is the hardest to keep fed. .303 ammo is the hardest to get as far as I can see. I don't plan to reload but will probably have to when ammo like the 7.62x39 is going up and up. I got 1,000 of Wolf ammo for $100 delivered a couple of years ago. That same ammo is over $190 at this time. Cost of petroleum drives the cost of ammo up, why milsurp is included I have no idea why.

Jean,

Mil-surp ammo prices go up because of shipping, it's gotta come to this country before it goes to your house, oil goes up, everything goes up across the board.

Swiss are excellent rifles but I ain't got no gripes on the Mosin's and Mauser's either. Don't be scared of a dark bore either, if you plan on reloading, many will still shoot well with cast bullets.

Ammo to avoid is the Turkish 8x57, works but is not accurate and you have to sort out the cases with cracked necks.

No matter what you buy, first thing is get it checked by a COMPETENT gunsmith to ensure it has not been modified to a different chambering, it is in safe working order including headspace! Many mil-surp's have had chamber mod's to make them legal in other countries so as they don't chamber military ammo and these are finding thier way into the US markets.

Another things is to slug the bore so you know the exact groove diameter as they can vary by several thousandths. This will really pay off if you start reloading.

My personal favorites are the 91/30's, these are super shooters especially with a good barrel.

Jean,

Milsurp ammo prices go up because of shipping, it's gotta come to this country before it goes to your house, oil goes up, everything goes up across the board.

Swiss are excellent rifles but I ain't got no gripes on the Mosin's and Mauser's either. Don't be scared of a dark bore either, if you plan on reloading, many will still shoot well with cast bullets.

Ammo to avoid is the Turkish 8x57, works but is not accurate and you have to sort out the cases with cracked necks.

No matter what you buy, first thing is get it checked by a COMPETENT gunsmith to ensure it has not been modified to a different chambering, it is in safe working order including headspace! Many mil-surplus have had chamber mod's to make them legal in other countries so as they don't chamber military ammo and these are finding their way into the US markets.

Another things is to slug the bore so you know the exact groove diameter as they can vary by several thousandths. This will really pay off if you start reloading.

My personal favorites are the 91/30's, these are super shooters especially with a good barrel.


Mark:

That is the ammo I have, Turkish that is. I have fired about 500 rounds and so far had only one that had a split neck. I must state that I bought the ammo about 3 years ago through Gunbroker.com
Ammoman.com also has some deals once in a while. I also watch:
CenterFire.com
CheaperThanDirt

If I knew that I would be able to continue shooting after about five years I would probably bother with reloading. I anticipate that what I have now will last as long as I do, heh, heh.

I bought 2100 rounds of the turk ammo, all 1943 date. Just checked my notes, 78 rounds had cracked necks. Bullet weights from these rounds varied by ±4gr and powder charges by ±6gr (square flake powder). Case mouth crimp is applied so heavy it actually deformed the bullet jacket and closer inspection shows that most of these point crimps are not applied evenly, as in they are heavier on one side than the other. 4 rounds had crushed shoulders and 11 with bullets jammed into the case at an angle.

Something I forgot to note above, the Turk Mauser rifles have a slower rifling twist than 7.92's from other countries. The Turk's were made to use thier 147gr bullet while the others were made to use the 196gr German spitzer. My M48 & K98 both shoot the 196 - 200 grain jacketed bullets best and both show a considerable drop in accuracy with the 175gr and lighter bullets.

I noted the same thing with my 91/30's, these shoot best with the 174gr boattails or the 180gr flat base spitzers, dropping down to the 150gr range shows a considerable accuracy loss especially when you get past 150 yards.

Mike, the guys are right. Beware because the MilSurps do clone in the dark! :D

got a Turk first. Then a No.4 mk2, then an M27/48, now an M38 that was dropped into a synthetic stock and scoped. It's incredibly clean otherwise. I handload for all of them and shoot surplus ammo as well.

You will have fun with them.

I might have to talk a friend of mine out of his other Chilean mauser next. He's got two and the other one is still in cosmo!

I picked up a Yugo M48 when they were plentiful, paied $84 out the door, used 2 cans of carb cleaner and 1 can of EasyOff to get it clean!, I shoot the Greek and Yugo ammo thrue it, it's still plentifull around here, and the Turk stuff is cheapest, I paied $7.00 each for a 70 round bandoler of 8mm, all on stripper clips.
Shoots good!

Mike, the guys are right. Beware because the MilSurps do clone in the dark! :D

got a Turk first. Then a No.4 mk2, then an M27/48, now an M38 that was dropped into a synthetic stock and scoped. It's incredibly clean otherwise. I handload for all of them and shoot surplus ammo as well.

You will have fun with them.

I might have to talk a friend of mine out of his other Chilean mauser next. He's got two and the other one is still in cosmo!

The propagation of military firearm in the safe or closet is a common occurrence. Please keep them away from each other. The have no scruples! ;) Jim

The propagation of military firearm in the safe or closet is a common occurrence. Please keep them away from each other. The have no scruples! ;) Jim

Jim:

I don't think you would have any problem between the Mauser and Mosin, but if you would have a Chassepot nothing would be safe, not even an Enfield, heh, heh.