I am new to the sport. I am looking for a all around bush gun. I have had a love affaire with the leaver rifle since childhood. My dad has a 22lr leaver that I use to shoot targets at the pits years ago. So just last fall I whent on my first deer hunt with my father inlaw and I am hooked.
Now that the store is out the way I am looking that all around bush gun for critters from deer, moose and bear. If that caliber of leaver gun exists :confused:

Are you interested in brand new levers there is only really Marlin and Browning making lever actions?

If Moose are really an option then the three redily availible choices would be the Marlin 444, 45-70 or Marlin 450. But you better not be recoil sensitive! A much harder to find and much more expensive option would be the Marlin 336ER which was chambered in .356 Win.

If you take moose off the list the field really opens up to virtually any chambered lever action. My personal choice would be the 35 Remington.

Winchester and Browning also made or make lever actions. If you can stand the looks the Browning, they offer the most caliber options.

There is also the Savage model 99 in .300 savage, 308 Win and a few in .356 Win may also fit your criteria.

Marlin 1895 in 45/70.

I've got an 1894 that I really like and a Savage M99 in .308 that it turns out it's rather accurate.

Welcome to the forum wolfpack795. Rules are simple, be nice and join in. There are lots of lever fans here and lots of good information.

For the game your considering you might look at the Browning lever in 358 Winchester or the Winchester 1895 in 30-06 or 405 Winchester. As Michael said there are still a bunch of the Savages 99's around and the 308 is also an outstanding cartridge.

Get yourself a nice Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun and have at it.

http://marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigbore/1895G.aspx

I am looking for a all around bush gun.

I hope you arent confusing brush-busting with handy-to-tote brush gun. There is no cartridge that will make up for bad shots in the wrong place. Bullets do not knock twigs and small saplings out of their way, homing on target like some demented berserker.

That being said, it should be noted that large and/or dangerous game like large bear can, and often do, offer shots at extended range. Truth be told, for the toothy ones, that might be best - unless you are confident that you can outrun your hunting partner.

For the versatility of range and handiness, I'd suggest you do the unthinkable:

Get a Browning BLR in the greatest sleeper cartridge of the modern era - .358 WIN.

Plenty of whallop at any sensible range, it can be handloaded all over the place, from .357 Mag level squib loads to bear busting slammers suitable for all but the biggest bruins.

For little blackies, hog and local woodlot dear, the factory stuff will be all you will ever need.

I'd second the motion for a 358 WIn. In a lever gun, the BLR is the only one currently made, but there are many bolt actions available.

IMHO, the ultimate 358 levergun is a Savage 99, but the price on those is multi thousand. You can get a 308 Savage 99 bored out to 358. I've also heard of folks getting 308 Savages bored to the new 338 Federal, which is also a good midrange cartridge.

If you can take the recoil, the MArlin GUide gun in 45-70, 444 or 450 Marlin is very accurate and reasonably priced. It'll knock down dang near anything you will likely come across in the woods.

My choice would be the Marlin .35 Remington. Nothing against any other brands or calibers mentioned here, but the .35 offers a wide range of choices now, especially if you handload. In my experience it fells game quicker than the 30-30, you will no doubt get differing advice but that's how it's been for me.

The factory loads take down deer, hogs and black bear very well, plus the new leverevolution rounds add new range and power to the old .35 Remy. For extra power, Buffalo Boar has their heavy .35 ammo; a 220 grain Speer @ 2200 FPS.

You may also find that the 1894 design in either .44 mag. or .45 LC to be a more compact design suited to your needs. Of course your .45 loads would need to be full power and not low velocity cowboy ammo if you're out hunting.

Now, I'm not sure where you are hailing from in Canada, but of there's a possibility of running into an irate browny, go with a .444 or 45-70 chambered Marlin.

I think for the conditions you'll be hunting in you will want to consider one of the ones with a 20 inch or less barrel or the guide guns.

Haven't shot any bushes :D but I'll second the .35 Rem suggestion. Mine has worked great on deer, hogs, and quite a few other critters.

Marlin 1895g with a 400gr+ bullet at 1800+fps. Take anything anywhere!

When you say "bush" gun I envision limited range shots, say out to 120 yards or less.

For this purpose you'd do well to consider any of the multitude of replica lever guns.

I have a Rossi (Puma) in .45 Colt that when loaded with the really big "thumper" loads will kill anything you may encounter in the lower 48.

I hand load, so this caliber is just right for me. I load a 255 grain bullet at > 1750 fps and > 1750 fpe out of the rifle and 1500 fps and 1260 fpe out of my Ruger Redhawk sidearm. An excellent combination of guns and bullets for the "bush" country.

I suggest you forget the levers and get a new Ruger Hawkeye in 338 Federal or 358 Win. This would be a handy rifle with not a lot of recoil. You are new to the sport and I doubt you are up to the recoil that some of the suggested rifles offer. If you must have a lever, the Browning BLR in 358 Win would meet your requirements.

Frank

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/321T.jpg (http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=7127&return=Y)

I suggest you forget the levers and get a new Ruger Hawkeye in 338 Federal or 358 Win. This would be a handy rifle with not a lot of recoil. You are new to the sport and I doubt you are up to the recoil that some of the suggested rifles offer. If you must have a lever, the Browning BLR in 358 Win would meet your requirements.

Frank

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/321T.jpg (http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=7127&return=Y)

Ruger Hawkeye, synthetic stock
8 Pounds, overall length 40 3/4

Marlin 336
7 pounds, 38.5 overall length
Marlin 1894
5.6 pounds, 37.5 inches

Well now lets be fair about it. The Ruger has a 22" barrel and weighs 7lbs. The Marlins you quoted have 20" barrels.

Frank

Caliber:.338 Federal
Capacity: 4 Rounds
Finish:Hawkeye Matte Stainless
Stock: Black Synthetic
Barrel Length:22"
Groove:6
Twist:1:10"
Overall Length:42"
Weight: 7 lbs
Features:Three-Position Manual Safety
Suggested Retail Price:$ 749.00
Miscellaneous:M77 Hawkeye All-Weather

I'll throw in with the triple 4 crowd since I have one. It's handy for me,especially when I want to dig trenches when I'm not hunting :D

Love my .444, but it kills on both ends. :eek: Same with the .45-70 (if not worse). Probably not the best choice for a beginner.

Yea, I agree that the .444 would probably not be the next step up from a .22, but what about a .44 Rem Mag.? One would want to pick their bullet and shot carefully on Moose or Bear though I would think.

My vote is for 45 LC big enough to wack the big qritters yet doesn't punish a newbe to much. You'll want to reload for it so you can get all the benefits of the cartridge. Bullets any good 255gr cast to 300gr for dear to moose. Then 325 gr + for big bear. You'll be limited to 100-150 yds but that just make the hunt better and more of a challenge for your hunting skills!:)

Well now lets be fair about it. The Ruger has a 22" barrel and weighs 7lbs. The Marlins you quoted have 20" barrels.

Frank

Caliber:.338 Federal
Capacity: 4 Rounds
Finish:Hawkeye Matte Stainless
Stock: Black Synthetic
Barrel Length:22"
Groove:6
Twist:1:10"
Overall Length:42"
Weight: 7 lbs
Features:Three-Position Manual Safety
Suggested Retail Price:$ 749.00
Miscellaneous:M77 Hawkeye All-Weather

My point exactly; less rifle to hang up in the bush. :)

Ok, you're in central Canada, which means Black Bear, not Grizzly or Alaskan Brownie, so you don't extreme power. Unless you live close to a very well stocked gunshop, scratch the .45 Colt. This is Canada. You might find .44 Magnums in small towns, as there's some old Ruger semi-autos and Marlin 1984s around. If you don't live close to the big city, check out what ammo you can buy locally before you buy a rifle. If you want a lever, that means a Marlin in .35 Remington or .444 Marlin, or a Browning in .308 Winchester or .30-06.

Bye
Jack

Has anyone suggested the new 308 Marlin Express in the new 24" Marlin levergun?

To me, it would be the minimal, especially where moose is on the list. But, if recoil is a big deal, it might be a good compromise.

Staying w/ leverguns, I've heard the 35 Rem can be handloaded up a bit, depending on the rifle, but I've no personal experience with that.

Ok, you're in central Canada, which means Black Bear, not Grizzly or Alaskan Brownie, so you don't extreme power. Unless you live close to a very well stocked gunshop, scratch the .45 Colt. This is Canada. You might find .44 Magnums in small towns, as there's some old Ruger semi-autos and Marlin 1984s around. If you don't live close to the big city, check out what ammo you can buy locally before you buy a rifle. If you want a lever, that means a Marlin in .35 Remington or .444 Marlin, or a Browning in .308 Winchester or .30-06.

Bye
Jack

Thanks for wading into this Jack and expressing exactly what several of us were trying to say; far too many words and bits of advice the several of us including me.

You think getting the Marlin 308 Express would be a pipe dream up there in the balmy part of North America?
SFT

Has anyone suggested the new 308 Marlin Express in the new 24" Marlin levergun?

The new .308 Marlin Express (not to be confused with the .308 Winchester) shows quite a bit of promise in both increased range, flatter shooting and more downrange energy. I think it's basically the same as the old .307 (?) but has the same polymer tip as the rest of the Leverevolution loads from Hornady. That improvement alone adds a lot to any of the levergun calibers, 30-30, .35, .444, 45-70, and .450 Marlin as well I think, correct me if wrong. But can you get one and readily obtain ammo for it in Canada?

To me, it would be the minimal, especially where moose is on the list. But, if recoil is a big deal, it might be a good compromise.

Staying w/ leverguns, I've heard the 35 Rem can be handloaded up a bit, depending on the rifle, but I've no personal experience with that.

Quite correct. Handloaders are the ones who've really saved the ol' .35 from going out. Factory ammo, w/ exceptions is loaded pretty low velocity, but the Core-loct bullet has never failed to bring down and hogs or deer I've hit with it. Re-loaders have a good choice of jacketed as well as cast bullets that work well and can push the velocity up nearly 400 FPS in same cases. A friend in Southern Canada loads up the Speer FN 180 grain to near 2400 fps (he does, just don't go out and try it your first or even second time!) and finds it a great elk and moose killer. Plus premium ammo makers like Buffalo Bore load a 220 grain Speer flat nose at 2200 fps, and I've personally taken, unintentionally, but legally, two animals with one of those.

I am looking for a all around bush gun.

I hope you arent confusing brush-busting with handy-to-tote brush gun. There is no cartridge that will make up for bad shots in the wrong place. Bullets do not knock twigs and small saplings out of their way, homing on target like some demented berserker.

That being said, it should be noted that large and/or dangerous game like large bear can, and often do, offer shots at extended range. Truth be told, for the toothy ones, that might be best - unless you are confident that you can outrun your hunting partner.

For the versatility of range and handiness, I'd suggest you do the unthinkable:

Get a Browning BLR in the greatest sleeper cartridge of the modern era - .358 WIN.

Plenty of whallop at any sensible range, it can be handloaded all over the place, from .357 Mag level squib loads to bear busting slammers suitable for all but the biggest bruins.

For little blackies, hog and local woodlot dear, the factory stuff will be all you will ever need.

My vote is for the 358 Win also in the BLR. This, IMO, is your best choice and gives you power to take anything you'll encounter along with some range if you need it. This with recoil, at least in my BLR, similar to my 270 Win (which doens't have a pad BTW). Just yesterday I chrony'd 225 Sierra Gamekings at 2500 fps, which, with a 100 yard zero drops only 5" at 200 yards. You can lighten up with 180 grn Speer FPs or some great 200 grn loads for deer if need be. Oldschool said it best in it's the greatest sleeper cartridge of the modern era and no doubt why Ken Waters called it the best non magnum cartridge out there.. :cool:

The most common .35 Rem factory round is the 200gr. Rem loading. It's perhaps a tad underpowered, but I've shot a lot of stuff with it before I moved over to cast bullets. No problems and I don't think any deer or hogs ran more than a few steps before expiring.

Last deer I shot with that load took a bullet in the right front chest at about 80 or 90 yards, exiting at the end of the ribs on the left side. You could have poured out the insides of the chest cavity, it was all pretty much liquid.

Last hog I shot with that load just dropped in it's tracks.

Cast bullets - you can crank up the RCBS 205gr. FNGC a little over 2,000fps with no problems, if you can find someone with a mould. I doubt if you can find the same mould that Marshall uses for his 180gr. "+P" bullet, but that one will easily run 2300fps and is devastating on critters.

Another idea, a 35 WHelen in a Remington 7600 pump...a step up on the 358 WIn.

Not a lever, but a quick handling, accurate rifle.

You can also get the 7600 pump in a 30-06 carbine (18.5"), which wouldn't be a bad choice either.

Likes leverguns, lives in central Canada, has experience with .22LR...let's see, Marlin 336 in 30-30 is the logical choice IMHO.

Another idea, a 35 WHelen in a Remington 7600 pump...a step up on the 358 WIn.

Not a lever, but a quick handling, accurate rifle.

You can also get the 7600 pump in a 30-06 carbine (18.5"), which wouldn't be a bad choice either.
Hadn't thought about a pump rifle, but a good choice as well if it suits your taste. Overall length and "packability" in the bush are factors to look at. Remington made a special run of the 7600 (called it the 7400 I think?) in .35 Rem a few years ago, and that certainly will handle max loads.
Then you'd have to get a Marlin chambered in the same; your know, for balance...:D

I'd stay with the old Savage 99 in .308. Rotary magazine lets you use spitzer bullet and there's a big variety of ammo in .308. If you want versitility it's tough to beat. ;)

thanks for the info gent's

I sorry for the delay in the reply but had to work.
On my travels I had A little time to find a range just outside of vancouer B.C canada. lucky for me thay had 3 different marlins to try. thay were the 336a/30-30, 1894/44mag and the 444 marlin. I expected th 444 to kick alot harder than It did. But Jury Is still out

wolfpack795 :confused:

thanks for the info gent's

I sorry for the delay in the reply but had to work.
On my travels I had A little time to find a range just outside of vancouer B.C canada. lucky for me thay had 3 different marlins to try. thay were the 336a/30-30, 1894/44mag and the 444 marlin. I expected th 444 to kick alot harder than It did. But Jury Is still out

wolfpack795 :confused:

I know this will tick a few people off...but, please don't get the 30/30. You will likely regret it. If you must get a 336 Marlin, get it in 35 Rem.

I know this will tick a few people off...but, please don't get the 30/30. You will likely regret it. If you must get a 336 Marlin, get it in 35 Rem.

It is not high on the wish list!

wolfpack795

Thanks for wading into this Jack and expressing exactly what several of us were trying to say; far too many words and bits of advice the several of us including me.

You think getting the Marlin 308 Express would be a pipe dream up there in the balmy part of North America?
SFT


the 308 marlin experss will be hear buy the end of this year.
The browning is a bit out of my price range, thay start at $850.00 can. Marlins can be found in the 44mag and up from $450.00 can. the XLR's can be found for $750.00can.

I did find a winchster 94 in a 38! but I left it at the store.
$350.00can used.

I guss I should adjust my profile to be alittle less vage.

wolfpack795

Lets see, if you know your range will never be more than 150-200 yards max then I have a few suggestions.

Marlin in 45/70/444/450/ or 35rem.

If you might have an occasional shot in the 200-300yard range or want to spend your money on a rifle that is a great brush gun, but can handle the longer shots if needed check out:

Browning BLRs .358, 30-06, .308

Savage 99 in 358, 308

Out of all of these if I had the money I would pick the BLR in .358. One of the most underated rifle calibers ever.
I notice you said the BLRs were a little out of your price range. Maybe you can afford a savage 99 in 358?

If that is still a little too pricey check out the Marlins. I have a 45/70 and love it, however I have had a 444 and really liked it as well. The 45/70 will more than likely have more factory ammo availble for you where you are.

Well said Matt. Wolfpack, I sincerely believe that you will be more than satisfied with a 358. I checked gunbroker and guns america and there are a few on there, for much less than the BLR's you've seen, under $700. But being in Canada, I don't know if you can buy them that way. Anyway, check them out:

Savage 99's

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=69738130 - $425

http://www.gunsamerica.com/classifieds/none/_976865204.aspx - $450

Browning BLR's

http://www.gunsamerica.com/classifieds/none/_976664715.aspx - $669

http://www.gunsamerica.com/classifieds/none/_976796977.aspx - $635

http://www.gunsamerica.com/classifieds/none/_976859142.aspx - $619

http://www.gunsamerica.com/classifieds/none/_976859169.aspx - $649

I have killed allmost 50 moose with my 444, and it is a wounderful rifle/caliber combo.
If you handload, buy some Speer 300 gr bullets, or Hornady 265 gr bullet.
Load with Hodgdon 335, Hogdon 4198, VV n130 VV n120, or RL7 to 2150 + fps for the 300 grainer, or 2300 + fps for the 265 grainer.
That is for bigger stuff.
For smaller game, load with any of the better of the lighter 44 mag bullets, like Speer 240 gr GD, Swift 240 gr, 200 or 225 gr Barnes X.
If not a handloader, buy the Hornady Light Mag ammo for big game, and Remington 240 gr factoryammo for smaller game.

VV data:
www.vihtavuori.fi

Hodgdon data:
www.hodgdon.com

Alliant data:
www.alliantpowder.com

Vihtavuori is the rocketfuel for the 444 Marlin!

Jack M
I thought all you canucks reloaded anyway!! So the 45 LC would be O.K! Or cant you all get components up there?

The .45LC is no problem if you reload, even in Canada. Let's face it though, most shooters don't reload. Since handgun ownship is much lower in Canada than the USA, finding ammo is a hassle.

Bye
Jack

Jack M
I thought all you canucks reloaded anyway!! So the 45 LC would be O.K! Or cant you all get components up there?
I am thinking of reloading but for the 444marlin
wolfpack795

I have killed allmost 50 moose with my 444, and it is a wounderful rifle/caliber combo.
If you handload, buy some Speer 300 gr bullets, or Hornady 265 gr bullet.
Load with Hodgdon 335, Hogdon 4198, VV n130 VV n120, or RL7 to 2150 + fps for the 300 grainer, or 2300 + fps for the 265 grainer.
That is for bigger stuff.
For smaller game, load with any of the better of the lighter 44 mag bullets, like Speer 240 gr GD, Swift 240 gr, 200 or 225 gr Barnes X.
If not a handloader, buy the Hornady Light Mag ammo for big game, and Remington 240 gr factoryammo for smaller game.

VV data:
www.vihtavuori.fi

Hodgdon data:
www.hodgdon.com

Alliant data:
www.alliantpowder.com

Vihtavuori is the rocketfuel for the 444 Marlin!


Have you tried the 180gr. load form loadswap? IF you have let me know. I am thinking For target and smaller game.
wolfpack795

Lets see, if you know your range will never be more than 150-200 yards max then I have a few suggestions.

Marlin in 45/70/444/450/ or 35rem.

If you might have an occasional shot in the 200-300yard range or want to spend your money on a rifle that is a great brush gun, but can handle the longer shots if needed check out:

Browning BLRs .358, 30-06, .308

Savage 99 in 358, 308

Out of all of these if I had the money I would pick the BLR in .358. One of the most underated rifle calibers ever.
I notice you said the BLRs were a little out of your price range. Maybe you can afford a savage 99 in 358?

If that is still a little too pricey check out the Marlins. I have a 45/70 and love it, however I have had a 444 and really liked it as well. The 45/70 will more than likely have more factory ammo availble for you where you are.

I am leaning to the 444
wolfpack795

Before you buy, I would check out the Browning BLR in 30.06 or 300 wsm. I think you will be able to reach a little further than the 444. Of course, it all depends on what your hunting terrain looks like.

THe BLR is a beautiful rifle.
-Dan

Oh, and don't forget, 30.06 ammo is available at walmart, canadian tire, the local farm store, the general store, your brother in law, even in quebec!;)

Not sure about 444

-dan

Oh, and don't forget, 30.06 ammo is available at walmart, canadian tire, the local farm store, the general store, your brother in law, even in quebec!;)

Not sure about 444

-dan

I don't think I will be looking many if any shots past 200 yards. I have done a lot of reading forums and banging my head against the wall to come to this almost firm decision.

wolfpack795

p..s
I also took a 444 with a 22" brl. for a test shoot and fond it to be a nice rifle. I have a strong fondness for leavers.
I looked at the blr leaver in the 30-06 but she is a bit rich for my blood
thanks for the reply.

Hey man, the 444 sounds like a good choice for you. I'm a 45/70 guy now, kinda like a ford/chevy thing I guess. One really isn't better than the other, they each have their strengths and weaknesses. As already mentioned the 265gr hornady loading is a great place to start. If you are looking to handload (and I think you mentioned you were) the possibilities really open up. Read up on Marshall's tech notes on the 444. Great reading on that cartridge and his hardcast bullets are top notch. Good luck and let us know what you end up with!

I think it's the 444 for me. I dumped $200.00 on a deposit for a blued 444 in a 22"
so in 3 weeks I will be home. Now the ? is to scope or not to scope? Thare are a lot of good things said about SIMONNS for a low cost scope your thoughts.

wolfpack795
444 marlin

For what you describe, I have no doubt it's a good choice for you.

If you scope it, I'm a believer of get the best optics you can afford...but that said, for some that may be easier said than done. My personal opinion isn't very good of Simmons...maybe they've improved since I owned their stuff 15 years ago, but IMO, if you go Simmons, get the AETEC. Another scope that looks to be decent but not expensive is the Bushnell Banner:

http://www.bushnell.com/general/riflescopes_banner.cfm?section=Hunting

They have a 1.5-4x and are nitrogen filled and cost (US)...maybe $70. I have no personal experience with them so I can't say how good or bad they actually are, but may be worth a look.

If money is an issue I would whole heartedly reccomend the bushnell Banner 1.5x4.5x32 that M1 mentioned. I have had a few of these on my marlins and currently have one on my 336. Ranchdog has one on every Marlin he owns, Like 13-20 of them. They will hold up to all the recoil you can throw at them, they are clear with good reppeatable adjustments and just plain seem to fit the Marlins well. Especially since you are looking for a shortrange setup. With it set at 1.5 you have a very large field of view for the quick close up shots and at 4.5 you have plenty magnification for the 15-200yard max shots you might run across.

If money isn't an issue check out the Leupold VX-III 1.75x6, but this scope will cost almost as much as your gun. :0(

Even with my old eyes, I can still hit pretty good w/ a Williams aperature rear and firesight front. XS systems also makes great aperature sights for the Marlin.

http://www.williamsgunsight.com/
http://www.xssights.com/

Midway and Brownells sell them.

If you do decide to go with the scope, I'll confirm the value of the Bushnells.

Good luck

For what you describe, I have no doubt it's a good choice for you.

If you scope it, I'm a believer of get the best optics you can afford...but that said, for some that may be easier said than done. My personal opinion isn't very good of Simmons...maybe they've improved since I owned their stuff 15 years ago, but IMO, if you go Simmons, get the AETEC. Another scope that looks to be decent but not expensive is the Bushnell Banner:

http://www.bushnell.com/general/riflescopes_banner.cfm?section=Hunting

They have a 1.5-4x and are nitrogen filled and cost (US)...maybe $70. I have no personal experience with them so I can't say how good or bad they actually are, but may be worth a look.


I like two things about the simmions scope is that I read in this forum that the warenty and the cost.
I may run tall or removable mounts and a peep site .
wolfpack795

Just a note for you, the Bushnell banner carries a full lifetime warrenty. I have had only one experience with Bushnell's Customer Service departement and it was as good of a report as I could give.

Check out XS's website, they have a nice mount that allows you to traditonally mount a scope in QD rings and then take it off and put on their rear peep. Brockmans also makes a scope base that has a built in , pop up peep sight that comes up with the scope is removed. To me there isn't that much difference in the rear peeps, but XS's front sight post is way better to my eyes than the firesights from williams and better than a regular black blade. Folks eyes are different so I guess take it with a grain of salt and see if you can look at few first hand. But again if price is an issue I would highly reccomend the Bushnell Banners or Nikon ProStaffs.

Hey man, the 444 sounds like a good choice for you. I'm a 45/70 guy now, kinda like a ford/chevy thing I guess. One really isn't better than the other, they each have their strengths and weaknesses. As already mentioned the 265gr hornady loading is a great place to start. If you are looking to handload (and I think you mentioned you were) the possibilities really open up. Read up on Marshall's tech notes on the 444. Great reading on that cartridge and his hardcast bullets are top notch. Good luck and let us know what you end up with!

I drive a dodge.

Not to get between Frank and SFT, but I would rather have an 18 inch barrel than a 20 or 22 on a brush gun!

Utility is where you find it, and an inch or two of added barrel length can ruin the handling qualities. What I give up ballistically isn't going to be noticed by the critter I shoot with it at 50 yards!

Papajohn

Not to get between Frank and SFT, but I would rather have an 18 inch barrel than a 20 or 22 on a brush gun!

Utility is where you find it, and an inch or two of added barrel length can ruin the handling qualities. What I give up ballistically isn't going to be noticed by the critter I shoot with it at 50 yards!

Papajohn

No problem! You'll have the 18.5 inch barrel Marlin 1895G "guide gun" in 45/70, blued or stainless steel, weighing in at 7 pounds, straight checkered stock with 4 round magazine- 3/4 length tube mag that doesn't extend to the end of the barrel, or the same dimensions chambered in the Marlin 450, both 37 inches total. Or you can choose the Marlin 1894 in .38/357, also with an 18.5 " round barrel, 9 shot tube mag (when using .38 special) , ballard rifling, straight checkered stock weighing in at 6 pounds and overall length of 36 inches.

You can try to find one of the Marlin RC models, with the "guide gun" shortened magazine, but I'm not sure of the barrel length, or find a nice used project gun and have the mag. as well as barrel shortened; but find a .35 Remington to do this with- :D

I like my Puma in 454 Casull. The .45/70 would be my other choice.

wolfpack,

I expect the .444 will be a good choice for you. I have a 444S (22" bbl., 3/4 magazine, walnut stock, blued steel, MicroGroove). I had an old Weaver K3 scope rebuilt and mounted it in Weaver mounts. The rebuild was about $45 and you can find these old Weavers pretty cheap in pawn shops, etc. http://www.weaver-scope-repair.com/

Before I mounted the scope I sighted in the factory open sights. In case of scope failure or damage the scope and rings can be removed and the factory sights are visible above the base. This can be done in the field without special tools.

In fact, the one-piece Weaver base has a profile like a big, rear, leaf sight. Out to about 75 yards I can use the scope base and front bead to shoot accurately enough to kill deer or larger animals.

I have only had my .444 for about a year. Last Fall I took a nice mule deer buck and a big cow elk with one shot each. It will do the job.

Good luck with your project.

I whent to the store to buy me a 444 in the blue but thay sold out! So thay said I had to wate or get the XLR and the rat in me just cold not resist the shiny. So that being said I am a owner of a 444XLR. that being said I spent aprox $1.200.00can on rifle, 60 rounds of ammo and a stainless case.
I think I will keep the factory sights for now and get good with them before I put a peep sight or scope or both (XS peep+rail) kind of a base line.
I am going to run about 100 rounds of factory through it be for I start reloading. Since I only PLAN to reload one cal. I was thinking of a hand press, scale,and tinker plus what ever else. If you have any ideas of a prefured reloading setup I would be happy to hear about it. Just keep in mined I am a little strapped of cash.

wolfpack795

p.s.
$1200.00 rifle ++++
$1450.00 for 2 laptops
some times It gets pricy kwik .
have a good day :D :D

I've never used one, but folks that do like the Lee hand press. I think they sell one in a kit with some other reloading components. Get a Lee perfect powder measure and powder scale and with your dies everything will about fit in a shoe box.

Be sure and check out some of Marshall's cast bullets for the 444 in the Beartooth bullet section here. I realy like cast bullets for the big bores.

I got the Lee Hand press since I do not have a place in the house that I can mount a press and I LOVE it. I think the press by itself is only about $20 USD or a kit with a ram prime, powder funnel, and sizing lube is about $30 USD from Midway last I looked. I went ahead and got the deluxe Lee Dies so I would not have to use lube if I just neck size, but I would recommend doing it anyway. Also, by getting Lee dies, you get the shellholder thrown in as well as a powder measure scoop, but I found that the one included with my .308 dies does not even throw a minimum powder charge. I also went with the Lee Trimmer, case length gauge, and chamfer tool. I bought a Lee powder funnel, but ended up also getting the Lyman Powder Pal funnel pan which duals as a funnel for putting the powder in the shell as well as a powder pan for a scale since I got a Frankford Arsenal scale instead of the Lee scale. You could get the Lee scale cheaper and it has a powder pan that hangs on it. I also got the Lee primer pocket cleaner since it was cheap. Also, you would want at least one loading block and a case to hold your loaded rounds. If money is really tight, you could get a Lee Loader and a hammer and pound your way into reloading!

My suggestion is the Lee Anniversary Kit. It's on sale from Midway for $64.99:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=149097

Add the dies and you have a great starting setup for under $100.

I think I am going to do the hand press thing. the stores up here sell a complete kit minus scale for about $60can. (including dies)
small scale is another $60can and loading blocks are $5can.
If I cross the line in the near future I buy it down there. ( about hafe price )
Is there a preferred way to ware in a new rifle? just want to do it right.

thanks
wolfpack795