I have had very good results with a case full of H-322 in my 32-20 with cast bullets. Conventional wisdom says this powder is too slow too dirty etc.. It is dirty, seems like about half the powder stays in the barrel or ends up in the action. It is; however, very accurate with plain base cast bullets.

What powder selection would give me 1,400 fps with a 150 grain cast bullet in my 30-30 at 95-100 % load density?

I'm thinking about trying H-4831

Your velocity will be more like 1950 and accuracy will be excellent if your experence is anything like mine. You will get a few old maid kernals in the barrel with a very noticible report and recoil. For 1400 fps in a 30 30 I would try 2400 in moderate doses. It gives good groups and a mild report and recoil

I've been using a Lyman recommendation of RL-7 with BTB cast bullets in my grandson's 6.5x55 with great results. Might want to look at their recommendations. They list for 170 and 173 gr cast.

I have had very good results with a case full of H-322 in my 32-20 with cast bullets. Conventional wisdom says this powder is too slow too dirty etc.. It is dirty, seems like about half the powder stays in the barrel or ends up in the action. It is; however, very accurate with plain base cast bullets.

What powder selection would give me 1,400 fps with a 150 grain cast bullet in my 30-30 at 95-100 % load density?

I'm thinking about trying H-4831

I am working a similar project KenK. 171 grain cast for 30-30 Winchester. I used IMR-4227 with 150 grain jacketed bullets to get my son shooting a Winchester 1894. I was near the velocity you want but nowhere near the load density. Slowest powder I have data for is WW-748. That is what I am using now with my 171 grain homecast. I still am not near 100% load density. This is still a work in progress for me too! I am running near 1600fps with a published start load.

If you concider H-322 to be too slow, what is H-4831 going to do?

Cheezywan

Cheezy, I meant that I want a powder that works in my 30-30 the same way H-322 does in my 32-20. A full case that gives the velocity I want.

I looked a little further and I agree with Horseman that I will be over my velocity goal with the 4831 at 100% density. Maybe 75 % full???

Anybody ever use Retumbo in a 30-30?

For what its worth I have had fairly good results with 20 grains of 4895. Going the more conventional fast powder route, 2400 has worked well. Both of these are position sensitive.

I have had very good results with a case full of H-322 in my 32-20 with cast bullets. Conventional wisdom says this powder is too slow too dirty etc.. It is dirty, seems like about half the powder stays in the barrel or ends up in the action. It is; however, very accurate with plain base cast bullets.

What powder selection would give me 1,400 fps with a 150 grain cast bullet in my 30-30 at 95-100 % load density?

I'm thinking about trying H-4831

I had an old friend many years ago that used 4831 for everything. Never had a problem so I am sure it would work. If I wanted to fill the 3030 case and limit my velocity to 1400 or so I would use SR4759 as it's intended use is such. Chief aka Maxx Load

Aside from wasting powder, you need to be sure not to use any light bullets with the slow powders. This can lead to the secondary pressure phenomenon that Charlie Sisk has been able to blow up muzzles with on demand (repeatable, unlike detonation).

.45-70 shooters used to use a duplex load with a couple of grains of black powder to get a really slow powder to light up. In the straight wall case this came close to mimicing original black powder performance, but without the smoke or fouling.

You might try Rocky Raab's 9 grain load of Unique. He swears it is very acurate in all .308 bores. That should run around 1500 fps with a 150 grain cast bullet. If I were conducting the experiment, I would try 7-9 grains of Trail Boss. It is bulkier and will take up 60% more space, but is also faster, so pressure is a bit higher. 9 grains is a listed max load with a 160 grain cast bullet, according to IMR data. Their starting load is 6.5 grains. This goes from just under to just over the speed of sound in a 24" barrel.

Aside from wasting powder,

I can't consider it wasted if it does what I want.


you need to be sure not to use any light bullets

Where would you draw the line between light and not light?

Ken,

You're right about the waste comment. I tend to automatically think of low ballistic efficiency as defining waste because you could probably get the same result with a lower charge and fewer hours spent disassembling and cleaning if you used something faster. The trick is that "same result". Lighter loads of position-insensitive powders might give you the same MV and ES, but the barrel time will be different. That can move you off a sweet spot in the barrel vibration, if you've found one? If so, that will swamp out the accuracy disadvantage of having higher muzzle pressure deflecting off the base of the exiting bullet. Every gun is still an individual.

I'm going to guess that the reputation for slow powders being a poor choice in cast bullet loads comes mainly from two things: First would be slow spherical powders. They are enough harder to light than stick powder that they benefit significantly from the added backpressure encountered in coaxing a jacketed bullet onto the lands. An equally slow stick powder could well produce more consistent results. The other is a common mistake: People using improperly undersized cast bullets for their bores. They would also suffer problems if they don't get the extra obturation produced by a faster jump in pressure.

I don't know precise answers for the light bullet question. If you look at the RSI website and see the secondary spike traces, it looks like anything under about 50 grains in the .223 qualifies. I would guess anything under 150 grains in the .308 Winchester would be at risk if the powder is slow enough. Charlie Sisk had some information posted, I think maybe in the 24 hr. Campfire forum? If not, it was linked to from a thread there. IIRC, he said the the muzzles can burst with loads that produce no pressure signs in the case; a disturbing thing in and of itself. He has apparently blown up several .338's, including demos for industry people, who seem to be indifferent to the problem. RSI claims one of Winchester's commercial loads produces the problem, but that they pressure test in an 18" barrel, just short of the position at which this typically occurs, so they don't see it. Curious business. Google on the topic and you will find out more. RSI has a pressure plot of a 40 grain V-max over 26.9 grains of AA2230 doing it. It is the last plot at the bottom of this page (http://www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm).

I just bought a pound of Reloader 10X, which claims to have been developed specifically for light bullets. It isn't extremely fast, but I am hoping it proves to be about right with the lighter .22's, and for 110 grain bullets in .30 cal? I have an RSI Pressure Trace instrument, so I should be able to see a problem if there is one? I'll put up a thread on it if one develops.

A few have stated they use a surplus powder intended of the very large cals such as 50BMG and 22mm with a full case it duplicates the black powder loads. Though dirty it is cheap, when buying 8lbs at a time. I have used H870 in a 30-30 with good results for low vels with jacketed. I was given a pound of H5010 with about the same results, dirty but it works and is cheap.

The "slow" pistol powders do work pretty well KenK. Alot of reloaders before us have worked the 30-30 Winchester.

Have you concidered blackpowder? You can get your load density there! Might find your velocity goal too? I have used it with jacketed bullets but, never clocked the loads.

You just "fill er up" , and dump out enough to get the bullet seated. You will end-up somewhere near 30 grains. They shoot just fine. I may go back there myself? Pyrodex? I have never done that :confused: .

I have been using the 30-30 as a substitute for a .22 hornet around here. 75 yard "critter-getter". The low speed, lead bullet, open sight rifle is working! Fun to shoot too!

Powder on my shopping list is; IMR-4198. I have never used it before.

Cheezywan

It is your opinion as to whether or not the powder is wasted', but there is a cautionary note about using case full of slow powder. If the powder is operating at a low pressure you will get a lot of unburned or partially burned powder in a barrel. In a repeater some of that will fall back down into the chamber and action, and will eventually cause problems.
You would be far better off with a different powder choice - 2400 or Reloder 7 would give you a range of powders and velocities, and the right choice would minimize unburnt powder.