Hi guys just started handloadig well it's been about a year now and most of the brass I've used has been new. Just got my CCW and after completing the course work we had do each do 200 rounds afterwhich we were offered the spent brass!! no one was into reloading so I got literally thousands of empty once fired brass cases. My question is because there are probably from a lot of different manufactures I was just wondering if it would be necessary to trim the brass before I reload them, or could I just clean and deprime them. I know you're suppose to trim rifle brass because it tends to lengthen but these are mostly 9mm and 40 cal cases with few 45's and 44 magnum thrown in, Heck one guy brought 454 Casull, just to fire a few test rounds. So for the 9mm and 40 stuff and even the 44 magnum stuff (I'm buying a new 44 magnum) do I have to or should I trim them I'm not going to use this brass for anything more then just practice ammo. I used to think I would roll my own self defense ammo but after hearing horror stories about getting sued thought I would just load for practice and hunting (45/70 Gov) Looking forward to your thoughts and observations. Thanks!

Tom j

Would try and sort the brass by headstamp...better to not mix-n-match.

Would trim the revolver rounds. The best way to get a nice even crimp is to start with nice even brass.

Might be tempted to just sort out the semi-auto stuff, looking fto remove the exceptionally long or exceptionally short cases. Semi-autos seldom stretch much (usually you lose them or step on them before they get long enough to really need a trim).

The best thing would be to trim them all once for uniformity. After that, you'll likely not need to do it again.

The best thing would be to trim them all once for uniformity. After that, you'll likely not need to do it again.


Hummm... 2,000 rounds that what I was hoping you weren't going to say o-well whats a good not to expensive trimmer that's quick and easy if such a thing exists. Thanks

Tom j

Get a Lee trimmer/case length gauge. Chuck it in a drill press or electric drill and go to town. You can't mess the brass up and it's quick.

Get a Lee trimmer/case length gauge. Chuck it in a drill press or electric drill and go to town. You can't mess the brass up and it's quick.


Say what do you think about that Lee Zip Trim found this video on You Tube. Thanks

Tom j

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW0VCej_nz8

For 9MM-45ACP check the case length if they are in spec or +/- .002 don't trim. As said before the revolver rounds trim to spec.

For 9MM-45ACP check the case length if they are in spec or +/- .002 don't trim. As said before the revolver rounds trim to spec.

Now that's what I'm talking about! sounds like a winner everyone agree if they all fall within that range it's ok to just use them and forgo the trimming? Anyone have a chance to check out the video??

Tom j

I've never come across auto brass that needs trimming. It comes trimmed from the factory because mfrs know that its OverAll Length has to be right for it to function in customers' guns. Then, reloading doesn't stretch it significantly.

Revolver cases vary a bit more, but I check a few of each headstamp to see whether any are too short. For practice ammo, I load lighter than max, and use a faster powder than the heavy-duty mag powders, so ignition is not very affected by crimp. Straight-wall cases don't stretch much on reloading. So, I never wind up trimming them, either.

Buy a trimmer once you start reloading bottleneck rifle cases.

:)

If you clean them do please sort them first, made that mistake when a fella gave a mixed 5 gallon bucket full of all kinds of brass mostly pistol. The 9mm and 40s get stuck together with media in between and you ruin the cases before you get them apart. Just some of my mistakes to share.

I've never come across auto brass that needs trimming. It comes trimmed from the factory because mfrs know that its OverAll Length has to be right for it to function in customers' guns. Then, reloading doesn't stretch it significantly.

Revolver cases vary a bit more, but I check a few of each headstamp to see whether any are too short. For practice ammo, I load lighter than max, and use a faster powder than the heavy-duty mag powders, so ignition is not very affected by crimp. Straight-wall cases don't stretch much on reloading. So, I never wind up trimming them, either.

Buy a trimmer once you start reloading bottleneck rifle cases.

:)

Sounds like a winner to me! so even though these cases are coming from different manufacturers I still wouldn't have do any trimming? just basically sort 9mm 40 cal ect them clean
and prep prior to loading? Thanks

Tom j

Say what do you think about that Lee Zip Trim found this video on You Tube. Thanks

Tom j

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW0VCej_nz8
Tom,
I have been using the Lee Zip Trim for several years now and think it is a great product. I probably trim my brass more than the average guy and have used it a bunch. 95% of the bullets I shoot are cast lead and I use a role crimp into the crimp groove. I like the cartridge length to be uniform from cartridge to cartridge. I have had no problems with it. It is reliable and simple to use.
Cary

Zip trim looks good. If you are lazy, you can effect the same thing using an electric screwdriver with the Sinclair case holders with 1/4" hex stems or adapt the standard Lee trimmer. Saves you pulling the cord. If you need serious trimming speed for just one chambering (setup takes time), then you get a Gracey or Giraud power trimmer.

Most pistol cartridges that fire at below around 25-30,000 PSI never need trimming. This is because what lengthens a case is that the firing pin shoves the cartridge forward in the chamber before igniting it, then the pressure rises high enough to stick the brass to the chamber before the neck finishes peeling away from the bullet to let it go. The only way the casehead can then get back to the breechface is for the brass to stretch. If the case has not stuck to the chamber before the bullet it let go, then the whole case just moves back against the breechface like a small piston. It also is expanded to fill and seal the chamber breech, so it is actually stretched wider in this scenario, and since the brass for being wider has to come from someplace, this makes it slightly shorter.

It doesn't take 25-30,000 PSI to effect the sticking of the brass to the chamber hard enough to stretch the brass. Rather it is just that cartridges loaded to lower peak pressures than 25-30,000 PSI typically let go of the bullet before reaching high enough pressure for the case to stick. Obviously, the exact PSI number will vary with bullet pull, brass thickness, powder burn rate, case-to-bullet diameter, bullet mass, etcetera, so there is no hard number for all cases. It is just a ballpark thing. I have found the .45 ACP actually shortens about half a thousandth with each reloading at target pressures. Some report their .357's grow, but only with hotter loads. Some commercial level loads don't grow the case, either. How tight your chamber is, matters, too. The 1911 .45 ACP has a generous chamber, while some revolvers don't. In the latter case you may not grow, but may also see little or no shortening.

Take the advice to simply measure all the cases. If they are long, trim them. If they are short, just shoot them and don't worry about it. I got up around 50 reloads in one lot of Winchester .45 ACP brass shooting about 3.8 grains of Bullseye under 185 grain cast bullets. These accumulated shortening of about 0.025” and still worked fine. Pistols wind up headspacing on the extractor rather than the case mouth when the cases get this short or if the chamber is too long. Aside from wear and tear on the extractor, this doesn't seem to have much affect on jacketed loads. It causes groups to open up with cast and swaged bullet loads, though, and in those cases, if your magazine will let them load, you want to seat the bullet out to headspace on the bullet to get that accuracy back.

Zip trim looks good. If you are lazy, you can effect the same thing using an electric screwdriver with the Sinclair case holders with 1/4" hex stems or adapt the standard Lee trimmer. Saves you pulling the cord. If you need serious trimming speed for just one chambering (setup takes time), then you get a Gracey or Giraud power trimmer.

Most pistol cartridges that fire at below around 25-30,000 PSI never need trimming. This is because what lengthens a case is that the firing pin shoves the cartridge forward in the chamber before igniting it, then the pressure rises high enough to stick the brass to the chamber before the neck finishes peeling away from the bullet to let it go. The only way the casehead can then get back to the breechface is for the brass to stretch. If the case has not stuck to the chamber before the bullet it let go, then the whole case just moves back against the breechface like a small piston. It also is expanded to fill and seal the chamber breech, so it is actually stretched wider in this scenario, and since the brass for being wider has to come from someplace, this makes it slightly shorter.

It doesn't take 25-30,000 PSI to effect the sticking of the brass to the chamber hard enough to stretch the brass. Rather it is just that cartridges loaded to lower peak pressures than 25-30,000 PSI typically let go of the bullet before reaching high enough pressure for the case to stick. Obviously, the exact PSI number will vary with bullet pull, brass thickness, powder burn rate, case-to-bullet diameter, bullet mass, etcetera, so there is no hard number for all cases. It is just a ballpark thing. I have found the .45 ACP actually shortens about half a thousandth with each reloading at target pressures. Some report their .357's grow, but only with hotter loads. Some commercial level loads don't grow the case, either. How tight your chamber is, matters, too. The 1911 .45 ACP has a generous chamber, while some revolvers don't. In the latter case you may not grow, but may also see little or no shortening.

Take the advice to simply measure all the cases. If they are long, trim them. If they are short, just shoot them and don't worry about it. I got up around 50 reloads in one lot of Winchester .45 ACP brass shooting about 3.8 grains of Bullseye under 185 grain cast bullets. These accumulated shortening of about 0.025” and still worked fine. Pistols wind up headspacing on the extractor rather than the case mouth when the cases get this short or if the chamber is too long. Aside from wear and tear on the extractor, this doesn't seem to have much affect on jacketed loads. It causes groups to open up with cast and swaged bullet loads, though, and in those cases, if your magazine will let them load, you want to seat the bullet out to headspace on the bullet to get that accuracy back.

Thanks for the detailed reply! ok I got roughly 1500 rounds so how would you an experienced reloader what would you use check the length of each case.

Tom j

Buy a set of stainless steel digital calipers. They are often on sale at Harbor Freight (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47257) or other tool stores for $20 or less. Close the jaws. Press Zero. Open them to the maximum case length specified in one of your reloading manuals or even a couple of thousandths more, then set the little thumb screw that locks the jaws in place. At that point they become a gauge, Just try to slide the cases between them endwise to see if the length fits. Drop the ones that don't fit through into a bin to be trimmed or tossed. You will never find enough in some calibers that it is even worth buying a trimmer. Those are the ones you pitch out.

You will discover the calipers are useful for other things, like checking Cartridge Overall Length (COL, sometime OAL or COAL). You can check bullet and case diameters if you aren't sure what one is when you find it? Pretty soon you'll be checking screw dimeters and lengths with them and all other manner of things and wonder how you got by without them?

If you clean them do please sort them first, made that mistake when a fella gave a mixed 5 gallon bucket full of all kinds of brass mostly pistol. The 9mm and 40s get stuck together with media in between and you ruin the cases before you get them apart. Just some of my mistakes to share.

THIS IS GOOD ADVICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The caliper is a very useful tool to have and will last a lifetime given proper care. All reloaders, especially those who reload rifle cartridges, should definitely have one.

A possible alternative to the caliper for handgun shooters who shoot a few calibers more than others, is the Frankford Arsenal Quick Check Max Cartridge Gauge (caliber specific) available from MidwayUSA for about $10 apiece. I shoot various handgun cartridges but moreso, .45 ACP and 9 mm, so I have both gauges on my reloading bench. Once I have the fired cases sized, I just drop them into the gauge which measures mouth diameter, base diameter, rim thickness and diameter, and case length simultaneously. A flip of the wrist and the good cases drop into a convenient container for reloading, whereas the "rejects" go into another container for further action i.e. trimming or disposal. The gauge is both quicker than the caliper and takes more measurements, a boon when you have a lot of cases to measure. I still use calipers on my other cases so having both is still worthwhile.

If you clean them do please sort them first, made that mistake when a fella gave a mixed 5 gallon bucket full of all kinds of brass mostly pistol. The 9mm and 40s get stuck together with media in between and you ruin the cases before you get them apart. Just some of my mistakes to share.
Thanks Swany, for pointing this out. Been there, done that too. Made the mistake of tumbling .38 Special and .45 ACP together. While the .38's could still be pulled out of the .45's, having them half tarnished and half polished didn't do anything for the cosmetics. Now, I check first to see if there's any possibility at all of one case getting lodged into another before putting cases into the tumbler. Also know now that .44 Special will and .44 WCF will not tumble OK with .45 Colt .

Sort them then tumble. yep, gotta agree there. Agree with getting the calipers because if you reload, you will need them at some point guaranteed.

For checking length and trimming the Lee Case Trimmer / Length Gauge, with the lock stud of just on your drill press works to do both at the same time. Inexpensive, efficient and if the case is short enough not to need trimming, you know right then and can move on to the next case.

While you're sorting, since it appears you have mixed headstamps:

If you come across A-Merc brand, whack them with a hammer to flatten them, and toss them. Their case walls are oddly tapered, and new bullets tend to bulge them. Then, they don't feed well, and can jam about 3/4 of the way into the chamber. I've also found while crushing them that their brass is rather brittle.

S&B headstamp cases are controversial. I claim that the primer cup is probably made to metric gages, and is a hair too small. When I try to seat primers the flat face of the primer bulges outward. I ream the pocket a little to open them up, which is really tedious. Also, the corner on the mouth of the pocket is a bit sharp, and I've crushed primers trying to start them into the pocket. Others on this board have claimed that they've used S&B with no trouble.

Watch out for Berdan primed cases. Not too common in .45, but they do exist, and will bend your decap pin.

Toss any cases that are made of steel or aluminum.

:)

. . . Also, the corner on the mouth of the pocket is a bit sharp. . .

You might want to look into the Wilson trimming tool (Sinclair and Bruno have them). Their reamer accessory tools for removing military crimps have an inside radiused cutting shoulder at the root that make a nice smoothly radiused funnel profile on that corner and will correct any metric sizing at the same time. Sure makes tight CCI primers easier to use.

You might want to look into the Wilson trimming tool (Sinclair and Bruno have them). Their reamer accessory tools for removing military crimps have an inside radiused cutting shoulder at the root that make a nice smoothly radiused funnel profile on that corner and will correct any metric sizing at the same time. Sure makes tight CCI primers easier to use.
Midway has them, too; got the attached pic from them.
I take it that you remove the trimmer spindle & replace it with this tool?

You then place the case into the same holder as when doing OAL trimming? Do you then turn this cutter with the knurled knob at the right end? No crank? Sounds like an ergo nightmare...

:(

Buy a set of stainless steel digital calipers. They are often on sale at Harbor Freight (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47257) or other tool stores for $20 or less. Close the jaws. Press Zero. Open them to the maximum case length specified in one of your reloading manuals or even a couple of thousandths more, then set the little thumb screw that locks the jaws in place. At that point they become a gauge, Just try to slide the cases between them endwise to see if the length fits. Drop the ones that don't fit through into a bin to be trimmed or tossed. You will never find enough in some calibers that it is even worth buying a trimmer. Those are the ones you pitch out.

You will discover the calipers are useful for other things, like checking Cartridge Overall Length (COL, sometime OAL or COAL). You can check bullet and case diameters if you aren't sure what one is when you find it? Pretty soon you'll be checking screw dimeters and lengths with them and all other manner of things and wonder how you got by without them?

Great Idea!! now why didn't I think of that? I all ready have a set of good digital calipers like I said in an earier post been reloading for well now I guess two years off and on and like you know you can't do any reloading without capipers and guess what bought them at yep Harbor Freight this really seems like the best approach quick and easy. Think I'll pick up one of those Lee Quick Zips to seems like a nice little addition to my reloading gear.It's realatively inexpensive but the cost can sore one you add a few acessories to really make it convenient but I can at least get started sorting (going to get my neighbors son to sort them for me and all I'll have to do is measure and clean them up. Thanks for the help really great suggestion. If you have a moment take a look at that You Tube video on the Quick Zip.

Tom j

Do you then turn this cutter with the knurled knob at the right end? No crank? Sounds like an ergo nightmare...

:(

You are correct. It is. My fingertips used to get red using one much, but boy does it make a nice smooth profile that accepts primers perfectly. Notice that the trimmer cutter's bearing length is the full length of the jounal bushing, but the reamer only has a short little bearing band that can't fight excentric force very well. I think that's why it didn't get a crank. You'd wind up scoring the journal after awhile.

On the plus side, the cutter is attached to the knob with a screw, same as the trimmer cutter crank. I replaced the screw with a hardened shoulder screw (to extend outside the knob) that I silver brazed a short length of 1/4" hex stock to the back of. I drive this slowly with a flexible extension shaft on the end of an electric screwdriver, so I am motorized. The lexible shaft mitigates uneven human-applied pressure. I discovered this years ago when I mounted one of the Brownells hand-turned crowning cutters to a flexible extension and found it elimenated chatter.