HI all i have been loading BTB 300gr WFNGC .452 in my puma 20" 454 casull and my .45 ruger bisley 5.5" with 45 long colt loads using winchester brass, WLPP primers, trimed to 1.285. with 25.0 grains of H110.

what i get out of my puma is 1765 fps i have worked up from 23.0 grains. to the 25.0 grains this is as far as i have gone.

my question is have any of you guys gone higher with this set up for a puma or your blackhawk. for 45 colt loads. i'm asking because my friend wants me to keep kicking it up to about 27.0 grains of H110.

at both 23.0 grains and 25.0 grains. what worked best in both blackhawk and the puma. the 23.0 grains had a tighter groop in both guns the best was 1.65" at 50 yards.

the 25.0 grains went out to about 2.25" at 50 yards.

thanks any info would be great.

Don't load that particular rifle/handgun/cartridge, but from the sound of it, you've established where the sweet spot is for them and would try to argue you out of going higher.

Others may disagree, but my personal opinion is that 1700 - 1800 fps is about max velocity for the gas checked bullets before you start stripping a bunch of lead down the bore. Again, just my thoughts.

Thanks kdub, my friend has the same guns as i do, he loves the hot stuff.

in the past month the 23.0 grains of H110 have droped 4 pigs all one shot kills under 70 yards.

for our elk hunt this year he wants to go a little hotter, i'm fine with the 300 gr BTB WFNGC loaded in 454 casull rounds. i would feel real comfortable using the 45 colt load for elk under 75 yards.

I'M in love with the 300gr BTB and will be buying more.

When the load gets hot enough to deteriorate accuracy, you also want to look at the chronograph and see that the increased charges are achieving a velocity increase? Failure to do so one of the many pressure signs. That said, it is unlikely 27 grains in that big Casull case will be any problem if you are not seating deeper than the crimp groove. I notice the only 300 grain bullet load on Hodgdon's site has a starting load of 28.5 grains and a top load of 30 grains in the Casull. Lead bullets can sometimes actually raise pressures a little, but your 27 grain load is probably still a very reasonable starting load, and your upper limit may be more like 29 grains.

The shorter .45 LC case won't take that much powder, though. The above is true just for the Casull case.

While it is possible to drive these bullets faster, I would hesitate to do so without firelapping and maybe even treating the bore with a semi-permanent lube, like MolyFusion, to help mitigate the tendency to lead. Cleaning lead fouling is not one of my more favorite passtimes.

I think you've hit about max, personally. What velocities did you get in the handgun?

I ran some similar loads to a little over 1700fps in my 24" Marlin 1894. While your .454 Puma will withstand higher pressures, your revolver won't much care for it.

If you want to run the rifle to higher velocities, I would certainly do it with .454 brass, to avoid getting an overly hot load in your Ruger.

By the way, 100fps here or there won't make any significant difference in the hunting fields. I'd go with what is most accurate.

MikeG in the ruger bisley with 23.0 grains of H110 i got 1255 fps, and with 25.0 grains of H110 i got 1480 fps in a 5.5" s.s. ruger blackhawk bisley. i think i will stay with the 23.0 grains since i had no problem taking pigs with it in the puma and ruger.

I have also got a pig at 30 yards with my ruger alaskan with 2.5" barrel with the same load.

for the puma and the alaskan in 454 casull i love the 300 gr WFNGC BTB with 29.0 grains of the good old H110.

so i will stick with the 45 colt load at 23.0 grains of H110, and when i load the 454 same bullet just 454 case and 29.0 grains of H110.

for pigs i see no reason to go any biger then the 300 gr BTB IN 45 colt or 454 casull with the 2 loads i like, i just wanted to see if any one took it a step further lol.

Think your 25gr. load is too hot for the Blackhawks, my opinion. Wouldn't go above 1300fps myself.

Best of luck.

If the 23 grain load shoots tighter than the 25 grain load, I would have to ask you is your goal to go faster or to shoot more accurately? Sounds like both are working great now, and if it ain't broken...

Yep, I like the Blackhawk in .45Colt too. Mine's not a Bisley but I really, really like it! I need to order some lead bullets and finally get going with them, but I'm having so much fun so far with 300 grain jacketed bullets. I've got the 4 5/8th inch barrel and I'm getting 1040 from 20 grains of H110 and I like the way it's shooting. :D

yes i'm happy with the 23.0 grain load works great in ruger blackhawk and the puma. all i wanted was to get at least over 1200 fps and still hold a good grop. the 25.0 grain was not to bad to but i will stick with the 23.0 grain i will get 15 more rounds i think out of a pound of powder.

the 23.0 grain did all i wanted on pigs cant ask for much more lol.

i still have not recovered any bullets yet on any of the pigs using 300 gr BTB. so i would have to say why go any hotter then 23.0 grains. i was just seeing how hot i could go.

thanks again.

Cleaning lead fouling is not one of my more favorite passtimes.

Resurrecting an old thread after I used some cast lead bullets in my 1885 45-70 this weekend (pushing them a little over 1800 fps). Don't know what the pedigree on the bullets is as they are 340 grainers given to me.

Ran the brush through, then a jag with patch, and a horrible scraping sound pushing that patch through (like fingernails on chaulkboard!). Anyway, I had some forewarning that something wasn't right because accuracy really went to the dogs, and the kick was getting harder (higher pressures I assume).

So, what's the best way to clean that lead from the bore? When I start getting a clean patch, I then brush it again with Hoppes #9, then a filthy patch again. Do I just need to keep doing that, or is there a better lead "solvent"? Thx for helping a lead bullet virgin.

The most certain ways are the old mercury amalgamating approach (hazmat approach; barrel plugged and filled with liquid mercury for half an hour or so; the resulting amalgam brushes out easily), and the Outers Foul Out electrolytic remover. Cowboy shooters swear by wrapping a strand from a copper (be sure it really is copper, and not just copper-washed steel) scouring pad, like Chore Boy, around a one or two caliber undersize bore brush and scrubbing with it. I find that method, like the Lewis and Hoppe's lead removers (bronze gauze pad over expanded rubber plug) gets the bulk of the lead out well, but leaves some traces.

I recently saw recommended, but have not yet had a chance to try, plugging the bore and filling it with Kroil for 24 hours. That is supposed to let the Kroil get under the lead well enough that the lead would come out on a patch, though I would still brush out a heavy deposit. Certainly the Shooter's Choice Lead Remover bore cleaning formula helps a brush get it out. Fairly effective. Bore Tech makes some good cleaners and their Elimenator brand claims to get everything out. I have found it extraordinarily effective on copper, and it does etch lead, but not as dramatically as copper. I think maybe they have a special one for lead? I'd have to go check?

There is also a product called a lead wipe. The patent expired out and I think Outers or Birchwood Casey picked the product up. This is an abrasive polish and penetrant saturated cloth that you cut up and use in place of a patch. It is good for the final step, but be aware it polishes the bore (probably a good thing) so it always comes out black (from steel as well as from lead). That makes it a little tough to tell when you are done without a borescope? I would use the Choreboy first, then the lead wipe, if the mechanical approach appeals to you more than investing in more cleaners or a Foul Out?

Thx unclenick, I'll give one of the methods a try. Probably not the mercury kind (don't want Al Gore visiting me :rolleyes:).

Does the leading and velocity limit depend on the lead/tin recipe, or is it just good advice to stay below 1600 fps or so?

There is no hard and fast alloy rule, because barrel surface condition and correct bullet diameter sizing are big factors in what velocities you can achieve with cast bullets. You will find firelapping the barrel results in a substantial reduction in the lead accumulation (and in copper accumulation firing jacketed bullets, as well). It has to be done correctly, however. In particular, I've read the terribly inadequate instructions in the Wheeler kit sold by Midway and would avoid it both because of that and their abrasive choices. Our sponsor, Marshall, sells a kit that employs a much more careful and conservative method. I would buy his kit if you have never done this before. You'll find it here:

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/firelapping_kits.htm

In general, harder bullets are used to avoid distortion and lead loss at rifle driving pressures. However, adding alloying components lowers the melting point, making its bullets more vulnerable to temperature. That is one reason a slightly softer alloy, with just enough antimony and arsenic to allow it to be hardened by heat treatment rather than composition alone, has an advantage over using a very hard alloys, like monotype and hard copper-bearing babbit. You will hear some reports of good, smooth barrels, with the right powder choice, getting 1800-1900 fps without unacceptable leading, but I've never tried to go much over 1600 fps with a plain base myself.

The most common insurance against lead buildup is to get bullets with a gas check on their bases. That prevents exposing the base directly to hot gases, and prevents gas cutting of the lead alloy by gas bypassing the base. If you have plain base bullets, you can sharpen an old case mouth to cut low density polyethylene sheet material to make wads that will protect the base. Even cardboard helps. If you already have gas checks and are still getting lead deposits, slug your bore to be sure the bullets are at least 0.001" to 0.003" bigger in diameter than your bore. If so, firelapping is your next step. I do it even to commercial barrels that will only shoot jacketed bullets, just because of the fouling reduction it achieves.

Thx unclenick. The link doesn't work for some reason, but I'll search it out. And, sorry to all for diverting the thread; I did a search of "lead" and this came up, and I thought it was an old thread, but it isn't very old at all.

Sorry for the link polution. Couldn't make out what I did that hadn't worked before, but redid it and it now works.

Got it, it worked, and order placed. Thx unclenick.