Has anyone tried resizing 307, 308, or 356 Winchester brass? If so, how did it work?

Has anyone tried resizing 307, 308, or 356 Winchester brass? If so, how did it work?
I made some from 356 win. brass. You push the shoulder back slightly and the case needs trimming. I didn't load any yet so you should check the neck dimensions in case reaming or turning is required.But if you have 307 or 356 brass it is an easy way to get your brass for the 308.

So far, all I've used is fired LeverEvolution brass. I think the 307 brass would be the easiest. I haven't tried to locate some 307 brass, yet.
The LeverEvolution ammo shoots really well in the 308MX. I wonder how long it will be before we can buy the brass.

307 Winchester brass is thicker than 308 Winchester brass. Is 307 Winchester brass thicker than 308 Marlin EX brass? If it is, don't you need to use less powder for 308 Marlin EX recipes? I wonder, if 308 Winchester brass were used, would 308 Marlin EX recipes would need to be reduced?

Also, does anyone have any reloading recipes? I heard some people say they were going to use 300 Savage reloading recipes as a starting point for 308 Marlin EX reloading recipes. How do you feel about using 300 Savage reloading recipes?

Busy week, I thought I had posted on making .308ME from .444 brass.This is the hard way to go about it and requires inside neck reaming. Makes a good case though.
I believe .307 Winchester - or .356 - would be the way I would go if I were planning to make very many.
I have been looking at Hodgdon 4895 and 150-grain bullets. So far just with starting loads from .307 data. I am looking for the gilt-edge accuracy some others have seen but I have not got there yet.
I have a Burris straight 4X Short Mag scope on mine and I sure like it.

Edit] Forgot to mention the .307 is on the lef and the .308ME on the right.

Also, does anyone have any reloading recipes? I heard some people say they were going to use 300 Savage reloading recipes as a starting point for 308 Marlin EX reloading recipes. How do you feel about using 300 Savage reloading recipes?

Taylor,
Hornady recorded some load data. It's posted over at MarlinOwners in the 308ME froum.

I personally have worked up some Sierra 150gr FP's with Varget. 42gr averaged 2555fps 1-1/2" groups.
I loaded up some Hdy 165 BTSP over Varget, but haven't tested them yet.
I am one of those folks who feel that the .300SAV data is in the same ball bark as the 308ME. I intend to try 150gr Spitzers and maybe even some 125 or 130gr spitzers. I have 3 bullets on order: 150gr Nosler BT, Nosler Solid Base, and Hdy BTSP. One of these bullets at 2600fps or so, IMHO would be just what the doctor ordered :cool: .

I found the load data at Marlin Owners web site. It looks very interesting. I still wonder if 307 brass is thicker than 308 MX brass and if I should use a little less powder. I have a couple hundred 307 brass and a forty or fifty 356 brass. I am going to try 308 Winchester brass also. I have several hundred 308 Winchester and 358 Winchester brass, and it is also a lot easier to find. I am ready to go, if my dies will just hurry and get here.

Oh, did I mention I traded for a blue 308 MX rifle. I just read too many good things about the rifle.

I got to thinking about .307 brass neck thickness this morning. When I formed the .308 Marlin Express cases from the .444 Marlin cases I was very surprised that I had to inside ream the necks to give clearance for the bullets.
This morning I formed some .308 Marlin Express cases from.307 Winchester and Winchester .308 cases.
The new-unfired .307 Winchester case weighed 184.2 grains with a spent primer and 237.7 grains filled to the mouth with water for 53.5 grains of water.

The same .307 case formed to .308 Marlin Express (but not fire-formed) and trimmed to 1.930” weighed 182.7 grains with a spent primer and 232.7 grains filled to the mouth with water for 50.0 grains of water.

The Winchester .308 case weighed 162.2 grains with spent primer and 217.5 grains filled to the mouth with water for 55.3 grains of water.

The .308 Winchester case formed to .308 Marlin Express (but not fire-formed) and trimmed to 1.930” weighed 162.8 and 215.0 grains filled to the case mouth with water for 52.2 grains of water.

I chose the 1.930” trim length as my once fired .308 Marlin Express cases are just cleaned up on the case mouth at this length. I trimmed all of the .308ME cases to the same length for water and weight measurements.
I have not fire-formed these case but the Hornady .308 Marlin Express case when full-length sized has an outside neck measurement of .332”. The same measurement on a formed .307 Winchester case is .333” and the .308 Winchester case measured.332”.
I’ll fore-form the cases using Alliant Bullseye and corn meal to see if they require inside reaming.

It is interesting to note the extractor cut on the Hornady case is very similar to the .308 Winchester case.

Edit] Taylor, we have had plenty of rain too. We need the rain but I have a new rifle…
I completely forgot to add the Hornady .308 Marlin Express case. The empty case with primer weighed 170.4 grains; the case filled with water to the mouth weighed 222.3 grains for 51.9 grains.

I also forgot to add the .444 Marlin case to the earlier picture so I replaced the picture. From the left: .307 Winchester, .308 Marlin Express (formed from .307 Win), Hornady .308 Marlin Express, .308 Marlin Express (formed from .308 Winchester), .308 Winchester, .308 Marlin Express (formed from .444 Marlin), and .444 Marlin.
This gives a view of four different extractor cuts.

William,
How many grains of water did the once fired and re-sized 308 Marlin case hold?

It has been raining every day and the dirt road to the rifle range is in bad condition. I am really wanting to shooting the new rifle, but can't. That is why I do not have any empty cases.

Taylor, I edited the post but forgot to ask what powder and bullet weight you will start with?

I am planning to start with Remington 150 grain and 170 grain round nose bullets, H4895 powder and either Hornady cases or Winchester cases.

Somewhere I came up with 100 military once fired brass. I don't know, but it looks thicker than regular Winchester brass. I may try it also. Heck, might as well try everything, including 307 brass.

I have a tendency to load bullets when I can't go to the rifle range. With a new gun in the gun safe, reloading fever is worse than normal.

Come to think about it, I have 200 hard cast gas check 30 caliber BTB that I may try also.

Taylor,
I have quite a few bulk Remington 150- and 170-grain bullets. I’ll use some of them.
Snow and I are looking at H4895, H322 and Benchmark in the .307 Winchester so it will be a good comparison to run some of the same through the .308ME.

Forum member Marlin Shooter has been loading the .308ME and his early posts on case capacity can probably be found by going to the members section and looking at his posts.

I’ll fire-form the cases this afternoon and look at the necks. It appears the .308 Winchester cases will not be a problem but I will not be surprised if the .307 cases require inside neck reaming. In six Months when component brass becomes available this will probably be forgotten.

I don’t have any military .308 brass but I may have a good quantity of Remington.

Taylor,

I fire-formed the .307 and .308 cases this afternoon.
The .308 Winchester cases allow a bullet to slip fit in the fired case. The fit is not quite as loose as I would prefer in a hunting rifle but I feel it will be acceptable as long as case length and neck thickness is monitored closely.
The .307 Winchester cases allow the bullet to “just slide” into the case. This is too close a fit for me and I will inside ream the .307 Winchester cases prior to loading them with bullets.

I posted some where on the cases overall length and found that my rifle will just chamber a case with a 1.960” case length. I am more comfortable with a 1.9550” case length prior to fire forming. Cases this long will shrink about .005” and will require final trimming after the fire-forming load. I am trimming to 1.920”.

I have heard military .308 cases are heavier and I would check the neck thickness carefully after fire-forming.
I’ll ream the necks on these cases and load them for comparison.

Taylor,

It rained 1.10” yesterday, .25” this morning and it is sprinkling now. The humidity is way up and the biting bugs are everywhere. So, I am forming more brass. I have formed some Federal .30-06 cases to see if there is a difference in neck thickness.
The .308 cases were just “skimmed” by the inside ream. I probably could have gotten away with not reaming these cases.
The .307 Winchester cases were very lightly reamed inside. I feel better having reamed these cases.

These rimless cases are full length sized and while they extract easily the cases often drop onto the lifter rather than being ejected clear of the action. The cases extract and eject clear of the action when fire-formed. It will be interesting to see how my rifle handles them when I shoot them with full power loads. I am going to load all of them with a 150-grain Remington JRN bullet to an estimated 2,500 fps as a start. This is a full power .30-30AI load and should be an above mid-range load for the .308ME.

Taylor,

The rain has slowed my shooting a little.
I formed some .308 Marlin Express cases from Federal .30-06 cases. I just did this for a little fun. The FC .30-06 cases are tough and I thought it would be interesting to compare them to the other cases. The .30-06 cases require quite a bit of inside neck reaming.
All cases have slight variations in them so I grabbed one of each case primed with a Federal large rifle primer and weighed them.
The Hornady .308 Marlin Express weighed 170.6 grains.
The Winchester .308 case weighed 161.6 grains, +9.0 grains.
The Winchester .307 case weighed 183.1 grains, +12.5 grains.
The FC .30-06 case weighed 184.5 grains, +13.9 grains
The R-P .444 Marlin case weighed 185.9 grains, +15.3 grains.

I have not yet looked at the formed .30-06 cases for capacity but if I form any more .308 Marlin Express cases from .30-06 cases I’ll break out the power adapter for my Forster trimmer!

The road is finally dry enough to get to the shooting range. I received the 308 MX dies and have formed some 308 Winchester brass to 308 MX cases. I trimmed the cases to 1.91. That's a little shorter, but my memory is not as good as it once was. I am going to start with a 150 grain Remington bullet and 36.5 grains of H4895 and work up to 39.5 grains in 1/2 grain increments.

I plan to go to the shooting range late today or tomorrow morning. It just depends on when I can get away. I will let you know how it goes.

What about the head size on the 308 Win vs the 308MX? They are different sized. The 308 MX has a larger dia head. The 308MX has the same size head dia as the 444.

I measure the case web – the solid portion above the extractor cut at .463” on a new-unfired .308 Marlin Express and .4655” on a new-unfired .307 Winchester. A twice fried .308 Winchester formed to .308ME measures .466”. A once fired .444 Marlin case measures .462” – I’ll dig out a new-unfired case tomorrow –
All of the cases I have formed feed through the action and chamber with no difficulty. I do consider it a good idea to inside ream the necks on the .307 and .308 Winchester cases. Inside neck reaming is mandatory on the .30-06 cases.
I have all of these cases loaded to an estimated 2,500 fps but have not had a moment to spare to shoot them yet.

EDIT] I do have some small trouble with the empty rimless cases ejecting, particularly when not fired. Some of the cases drop off the extractor and remain in the action. All of the rimmed cases cycle with no difficulty.I have shot the formed .444 cases twice eash with 110 grain bullets. These all shot well in my rifle.

EDIT] I do have some small trouble with the empty rimless cases ejecting, particularly when not fired.

Do they eject ok when fired?

Yes, they seem to eject fine when fired. It may be the bit of extra “cling” caused by the cases snapping out to meet the chamber walls.
The same when fire-forming cases. I am using 6.6 grains of Alliant Bullseye (the .7cc Lee dipper – I have never weighed the charge) and the case filled to the mouth with cornmeal. The fire-form loads extract and eject just like a case fired with a bullet.
This is a problem when checking the cases to ensure they chamber properly after fire-forming, inside neck reaming, final trimming and full-length sizing. Three out of four full length sized cases will extract fine but will drop off the extractor and lay on the carrier rather the eject clear of the action.
For hunting ammunition I would use one of the rimmed cases to ensure reliable functioning.
I am currently forming some .270 Winchester cases to load with 170-grain bullets for this weekend. As soon as the brass becomes available from Hornady this will all be just a mildly interesting little experiment.

Willaim,
I made several 308 MX cases from once fired 307 Winchester cases. After full length resizing, I ran a 308 neck expander through the case mouth. Then I loaded four cartridges with 150 grain Remington bullets. They cycle and chamber fine. I don't understand the need to trim the inside of the neck? How does it help the cartridge or the gun?

Taylor,
My .307 cases formed and loaded chambered fine also. After firing the cases I slipped a bullet into the expanded necks and the bullets were an “interference” fit. This is to say the bullets would just slip into the expanded neck – they were a tight fit. I prefer a little more clearance. By reaming the expanded cases necks with a .308” inside neck reamer the bullets are an easy slip fit in the expanded neck after firing. The full length sized cases still have good neck tension and hold the bullet against slippage, even without a crimp.
After you fire your cases try a bullet in the expanded neck and see if they have good clearance. If they do you are fine. I probably would have done fine using the .307 and .308 cases without reaming the necks. I just felt better with a little more clearance. All of our brass will have slightly different neck thickness so try a bullet in several fired cases to ensure you have tested a good sample.
With the .30-06 and the .270 cases the bullets will not slip into the expanded neck when I fire form the cases and the ream cuts quite a bit of metal when it runs through the neck.

Thanks for explaining why inside neck reaming is sometimes needed. I think I will try some with and without reaming.

I think the most import thing is to check your cases after firing, just to ensure you have adequate neck clearance.
Years ago I was all excited about “real” accuracy. It is a lot like speed, the faster you want go the more it costs in time and money. Chasing small groups on paper can be just as difficult, and costly. It’s not too difficult to shoot small three shot groups, five shot groups are harder and ten shot groups are difficult.
There are a number of shooters who share the secrets of accuracy and Bob Pease has certainly been generous. Pease wrote a short, three part article (monograph?) many years ago titled: “Stuffing a tight necked turkey.” Few writers have been able to simplify a difficult task with the seeming ease of Bob Pease. I don’t know if this article can still be bought but he used to sell it in a little spiral bound booklet.
Anyway, adequate case neck clearance is a vital consideration in forming cases for wildcat and factory cartridges. There are many ways to ensure adequate neck clearance and there are many reasons to “adjust” this clearance. Its just one of those things you need to consider.

Taylor,

I sprained my ankle at a gun show yesterday – running to catch the bargains. This made for a very interesting morning at the range. I shot at fifty yards and wished I had someone to walk down and paste up the holes for me.
I shot the 150-grain Speer bullets ahead of 39.8 grains of Hodgdon 4895 using Federal large rifle primers and seating the bullets to a COAL of 2.550”, I used no crimp.
The Hornady .308 Marlin Express brass gave me 2,532 fps with an E of 21 and SD of 11 fps. You cannot tell much about accuracy at 50 yards but these shot into about 0.75”.

I then shot the Federal .30-06 cases. These loads chronographed 2,552 fps with an E of 33 and SD of 13 fps. This was the most accurate 150-grain load and put five shots into 0.60”. Cannot say why, just one of those things.

Next the Winchester .308 cases chronographed 2,513 fps with an E of 29 and SD of 12 fps. Five of these measured a rough 0.80” and the group is nice and round.

The .307 Winchester cases chronographed 2,558 fps with an E of 1 and SD of 2 fps. I thought the chronograph was missing the shots. Five of these fell into a 0.75 to 0.80” group, depending on how I moved the scale around. I have never shot a string with .307 Winchester ammunition that chronographed so closely together – I may have never shot a string with velocities running this close together, it is certainly a fluke but interesting.

The .444 Marlin cases chronographed 2,543 fps with an E of 31 and SD of 15 fps. This group had one round open the group to 0.95 to 1.0” Its too bad as there does not appear to be a lot of difference between the .444 Marlin and .307 cases.

All of the rimless cases ejected clear of the action. While it is early I would say it will pay to make the cases from .307 or .444 cases and not fool around with the rimless cases.

I loaded the formed .270 Winchester cases with bulk 170-grain Winchester FN Power Points and the Federal primers. I the bullets to a short COAL of 2.500” and used the Lee .308 Winchester Factory Crimp die. The cannelure is well up out of the case.

I shot a sting of mixed R-P and Winchester .270 cases using a load of 36.8 grains of Hodgdon 4895. These chronographed 2,326 fps with an E of 31 and SD of 16 fps. Dropping two R-P cases out of the string gave me an average of 2,320 fps with an E of 28 and SD of 15 fps. This group was shot at 50-yards but all five bullets were touching each other and I was pleased. There does not appear to be a need to separate cases by headstamp with starting loads.

Increasing the powder charge to 37.6 grains raised the velocity to 2,393 fps with an E of 13 and SD of 6 fps. This was a string of mixed .270 cases, R-P and Federal.

Increasing the powder charge to 38.5 grains raised the velocity to 2,428 fps with an E of 21 and SD of 11 fps. This load shot into 1.25” and I believe it would be a fine hunting load.

While all of the .270 cases extracted from the chamber easily, not all of them ejected clear of the action. Several cases fell of the extractor and dropped onto the carrier. Re-forming the .270 cases is a pain and while I have a good batch of cases I won’t play that game again willingly.

This was a lot of fun to look at. I’ll form a few more .444 Marlin cases into .308ME and use them alongside the Hornady cases for a real test. In the mean time I have my ankle stuffed into a pan of ice-water and I am going to put the loads up on Greg Mushials graph to see if there are any trends.

Taylor,

Shooting the .308 Marlin Express with Alliant Reloder 15 and Hodgdon Varget.
I have not scanned the targets into RCBS Load’s Target Tool yet but it appears I may have shot several three shot, 1” groups at 100 yards this morning. If so, the .308 Marlin Express may well prove to be the most accurate lever-action Rifle I have. Time will tell if it will out shoot my .25-35 Winchester Model 94AE. If the .308ME out shoots the .25-35 it will be one accurate rifle.
In the reformed Winchester, .308 cases 42.9 grains of Alliant Reloder 15 behind the 150-grain Speer flat nose bullet chronographed 2,561 fps with an E of 26 and SD of 12 fps. This is 100-fps higher velocity than I anticipated and I am scratching my head about this.

Loading the 150-grain Speer in the Federal .270 Winchester cases ahead of 41.7 grains of Hodgdon Varget gave me 2,556 fps with an E of 57 and SD of 24 fps. This is a wonderful load and deserves looking at in the Hornady .308 ME cases. This load was estimated at 2,500 fps.

The Winchester bulk 170-grain bullets seemed to deliver fine accuracy so I tried them again. Loaded in the R-P .444 Marlin cases ahead of 41.0 grains of Alliant Reloder 15 they chronographed at 2,526 fps with an E of 10 and SD of 3 fps.
This is a fine hunting load as I have shot quite a few deer with the .307 Winchester and .30-30AI at velocities varying from 2,450 fps to 2,550 fps and these loads kill deer very well using any of the 170-grain flat nose bullets intended for the .30-30. The .308 ME is at the ideal power level for our smaller deer and hogs.

Switching to the Hornady .308 Marlin Express case and 41.0 grains of Reloder 15 the Winchester 170-grain bullets chronographed 2,498 fps with an E of 19 and Sd of 7 fps. This will be my first hunting load. I cannot ask for more power or accuracy.

This load was estimated at 2,500 fps so it is right on target velocity wise.
My Marlin .308 ME has the smoothest barrel I have felt on a Marlin rifle. A tight patch moves smoothly down the barrel without a catch. Feels like a Winchester barrel.

I'll stop posting on this threa unless something new comes up. It looks to me like the .307 or .444 cases are the ones to re-form.

William,
I just got back from visiting my grandchildren and read your posts. They are very interesting. You may have mentioned it, but did you ream the inside of the 307 cases? I have not found a inside neck reamer yet.

Taylor,
Yes I ended up inside reaming all of the cases I formed. I probably could have used the .307 Winchester cases as is but the neck clearance is close enough that I would have needed to keep a close eye on case length and neck wall thickness to ensure I didn’t get any surprises. There is nothing wrong with a close neck clearance (TNT or Tight Neck Tolerance as Bob Pease termed it) but you need to take extra care that the cases do not grow over time as you load and shoot them.

I am using a Forster case trimmer and inside neck reamer. I also have a RCBS neck ream die but I prefer to ream on the living room floor while watching a movie. This removes some of the pain….

While you are looking for a reamer make up two or three fireform loads. Use 6.0 grains of Alliant Bullseye or 8.0 grains of Unique and fill the case with corn meal or grits and use a dab of bullet lube to cloes it off so the filler does not fall out. The next tme you are at the range shoot these last and then when you get gome check them to see how freely they admit a bullet. This will tell you if you need to ream or not.

Taylor,

I have shot over 700 rounds through my 308MX. A good majority of this shooting has been with formed cases from .307 Win, .308 Win, .30-06, .270 and .444 Marlin brass.
The .30-06 brass was once fired.
The .308 and .270 brass had been loaded and shot several times in several different rifles. Half of the .307 and .444 Marlin cases had been shot quite a bit and half were new unfired.
I have now discarded about half of the .308 and .30-06 cases because the primer pockets have lost some of their tension when the primers are seated – I consider this normal wear.
I have not lost any of the .270 cases.
I lost one .307 to a neck split and one to a worn out primer pocket – I cannot tell whether these were used or new cases.
I have lost all of the older .444 Marlin cases and one of the cases formed from new brass – all due to neck splits. I gave some thought to annealing the necks when I formed the .444’s to .308ME but decided against it.
My 308MX rifle does not handle rimless cases with enough reliability to allow their use for hunting. So it appears annealing the necks would be a good idea for .307 Win or .444 Marlin cases when formed to .308ME.
Ranch Dog has the better idea – keep up the requests to Jamison and Hornady for component brass.

Are you just forming this brass with the sizer die. I have looked for a form die for the 308MX and can not find one. Thanks

Well guess I have another question. Can I turn the necks and resize or do I need to purchase the reamers.