Hello everyone! Ok, this is post number 2 for me. I had a big long deal written up to post, but the computer ate it. Bummer.

Anyway, I have a very sad tale to tell, and some questions I need some assistance with. Here goes. I recently came into possession of my grandfather's old 1903 Springfield Mk.1. For those of you that know anything about these guns, this was the one year only model that accommodated that strange piece of hardware known as the Pedersen Device (sorry, don't have that rare piece of history!). The gun has been in my family for a long, long time, and my father recently handed down the gun to me. I don't know a lot about the gun itself, other than the fact that it has been sporterized, and is not original in it's current configuration. Here's where the story gets sad.

My father had let my second cousin borrow the gun a fews years ago, and while in his possession, the gun met with a bad turn of events. He had left the rifle in the trunk of his car for quite some time, and ended up with a bad case of the rusties. Now there is rust, and then there is RUST! The left side of the barrel has some very deep pitting that will not just buff out. The rust has eaten into the barrel. My dad had tried to use some steel wool to get the rust off (it's not like he was going to hurt the barrel or anything!), and he also was able to get some of the lighter rust off of the receiver. When I got the gun, I had to let the parts soak in WD-40, in order to get the bolt and safety to work properly. There is not any rust inside of the barrel, or in the actual receiver mechanism itself, just the surrounding area. In it's current condition I suppose one could shoot it, but I'm scared to death to do it! (call me crazy but I like my eyeballs and facial features!!) The bolt now performs as it should, as best as I can tell.

So here I am, with a gun the apparently needs a new barrel, and all of the other parts that were original to the gun, ie, stock, sights, etc. I'm wondering if I should even worry about getting the gun repaired, how much this is going to cost me, if I have to get parts that are SPECIFIC to the 1918 model year. Also, I'm wondering if the stock is specific fo that Mk 1, and if there are any other sources I can use to repair my rifle. I'd love to be able to take the gun out and shoot it, and would really prefer that it was back to it's original state. I presume that a correctly dated barrel will make a difference. I would likely have the barrel replacement done by a qualified gunsmith that could do the proper headspacing and all. I know that from and "original" standpoint, this gun may no longer hold the value that it did, since the receiver will need to be re-blued and all, but I'm sure that this gun MUST have some inherent value, even in it's current condition. Am I mistaken?

I don't have a lot of experience with thistype of gun. The oldest one that I have in my possession is my Yugo SKS, and that one's a piece of cake compared to this one. I do love the war history that the 1903 has, and want to preserve that if possible. I just want to get your opinions on what can be, and SHOULD be done with the gun. I don't have a bottomless checking account, and would really like to do the work myself if I can. Has anyone else out there run into this type of project before? Did I just become the proud owner of a wall-piece that will never be functional? Please, please, PLEASE....if anyone out there has words of advice, I would greatly appreciate it. Sorry for the novel!! :)

I had a Mark #1 1903 Springfield also.I bought it from the DCM for 15 dollars.I thought that ir was made in 1919. It is,as is all those made at that time,double heat treated steel.It is as strong as any of the later-manufactured nickel-steel rifles.It is also.in your case,was,a smoother action then them.
I would'nt bother to get matching parts for it;it's not a collectable any longer.Any '03 part will suffice for a "shooter"
I would not shoot it without the blessing of a qualified gunsmith,but 'if all the rust is outside,it should be safe.
Frank

You have a very desirable rifle and it can probably be restored. It is a 1903 and if the serial number is above 800,000, it would be a"high number" Springfield and above 265,000 would be the same from Rock Island Arsenal. I believe all the Mark I rifles were made at Springfield.

A replacement 1903 barrel may be available from Gun Parts Corporation at www.gunpartscorp.com or Sarco, Inc. at www.sarcoinc.com. A competent gunsmith should be able to rebarrel your rifle. hope this helps. All the best...
Gil

In my neck of the woods someone who returned a borrowed item like your cousin did would never borrow anything from anyone in the future. The sad tale would be all over the community before he got home. Talk about an irresponsibility individual.

You say it has been sporterized - does that include sights other than the original issue military? Has the barrel been shortened, or can you still read a date stamp and see an ordnance bomb symbol at the muzzle?

You say it has been sporterized - does that include sights other than the original issue military? Has the barrel been shortened, or can you still read a date stamp and see an ordnance bomb symbol at the muzzle?


There are no sights on the rifle at this time. I'm not sure who modified it, but it had a scope added at one time. There is no blade sight on the front, and there is no date that I can see. I thought that maybe the barrel was shortened too, but the end of the barrel looks "normal"? Maybe it's because I've never seen one that's been shortened, so I have nothing to compare it to.

I'm just really struggling with what to do to this rifle. I don't know if I should just change the barrel and stock, leave the reciever sorta rusty-like on the outside, and just shoot it.....or if I should go through the trouble of having it restored. I'm not even sure what they would consider restorable. Also, does this stuff cost an arm and a leg?

I'm trying to post pics, but it tells me that my file is just too big! Argh!!

Let's try this on for size.....

You say it has been sporterized - does that include sights other than the original issue military? Has the barrel been shortened, or can you still read a date stamp and see an ordnance bomb symbol at the muzzle?

KDub
If he has a Springfield rifle with the cut in the right side of the receiver for the Pederson device,it is,in my opinion,one of the ffinest Springfields made.It cannot be mistaken for a low numbered or a niclel-steel rifle.That cut is a date stamp,of sorts.Hatcher's Notebook states that all nickel steel receivers are marked"NS"on the fron,where it engages the barrel,and can be seen when the barrel is removed.These were introduced onnApril 1,1927;at #1,275,767.We all know when the single heat treated receivers were no longer made.

Also,the barrel has to be discarded anyway.
Frank

Gil Martin was asking about serial numbers, Frank.

Yeah - I owned an all original Mk 1 a few years back and sold it before I got funny ideas about sporterizing it. Last time I saw it at a gunshow, the rifle had a $1,000 price tag hanging on it.

Mydejayvoo - sorry to say, but any collector's value has been destroyed with the drilling/tapping for scope mounts on the receiver, let alone the rust deterioation and lack of military stock. It is now considered a "shooter" as long as the bore, bolt lugs and bolt face have not been damaged.

If it were mine, I'd have a gunsmith restore it the best he can, reblue the metal and use it for my hunting.

Gil Martin was asking about serial numbers, Frank.

Yeah - I owned an all original Mk 1 a few years back and sold it before I got funny ideas about sporterizing it. Last time I saw it at a gunshow, the rifle had a $1,000 price tag hanging on it.

Mydejayvoo - sorry to say, but any collector's value has been destroyed with the drilling/tapping for scope mounts on the receiver, let alone the rust deterioation and lack of military stock. It is now considered a "shooter" as long as the bore, bolt lugs and bolt face have not been damaged.

If it were mine, I'd have a gunsmith restore it the best he can, reblue the metal and use it for my hunting.

I'd agree. It's long past collector material. But they are fine rifles and there's no reason to not enjoy it.

You basically have a receiver that's worth maybe in the $100 range, and whatever you could get for the rest of it.

Sorry.....

I'd agree. It's long past collector material. But they are fine rifles and there's no reason to not enjoy it.

You basically have a receiver that's worth maybe in the $100 range, and whatever you could get for the rest of it.

Sorry.....




Ok....I definitely see your point there. So, my question now is, do I keep the same sporter stock and refinish that one, or find one of the original stocks? Also, is there a difference in the barrels? I see that there are some listed on eBay, and the dates are more in the 40's. I don't need a perfect barrel, just preferably one that doesn't have rust eaten halfway through it! LOL I guess my dad would be happier if I were to restore the sporter stock and get it looking the way that it did when my grandfather owned it, but I think I might like the original look a little more, who knows.

Also, is there a good book that I can use that will show me all of the little parts and pieces that the original rifle had on it? I go online and see 9 trillion parts, but I don't know if they will all fit my gun. A3...m1903...?? It's all a little greek to me, ya know? Any help is truly appreciated! Thanks for the info thus far. Oh, and should I blue it myself, I mean if it's basically screwed as a collectors item anyways?

Will a Smith Corona barrel work on this gun? I just need to find a barrel, and don't want to spend an absolute fortune on it. If anyone has any sources, or even has a barrel laying around that they want to sell, please let me know. Inexpensive is the key word here! :)

Will ANY 1903 barrel work??

Any '03 or 003A3 barrel will work for your action. It will have to be removed by a gunsmith, the new one installed and headspaced properly.

Will ANY 1903 barrel work??

An original surplus Springfield 1903 or 1903A3 barrel will be expensive, if you can find one in decent condition. The cost of a G.I. stocks and handguard and the metal will run between $150.00 to $200.00. So it might be better to leave this rifle as a sporter.

Midway sells '98 Mauser barrels by Adams & Bennett for about $90.00 and the series 3 with an F34 contour can be rethreaded to fit a 1903 or 1903-A3 Springfield receiver. You end up with a 23 inch barrel instead of 24 inches. Midway has various calibers listed including .30-06. I have had several Springfields rebarreled this way in.280 Remington and .338-06. Hope this helps. All the best...
Gil

An original surplus Springfield 1903 or 1903A3 barrel will be expensive, if you can find one in decent condition. The cost of a G.I. stocks and handguard and the metal will run between $150.00 to $200.00. So it might be better to leave this rifle as a sporter.

Midway sells '98 Mauser barrels by Adams & Bennett for about $90.00 and the series 3 with an F34 contour can be rethreaded to fit a 1903 or 1903-A3 Springfield receiver. You end up with a 23 inch barrel instead of 24 inches. Midway has various calibers listed including .30-06. I have had several Springfields rebarreled this way in.280 Remington and .338-06. Hope this helps. All the best...
Gil


So just out of curiosity, what does a gun smith charge to remove an old barrel and swap it out with a replacement barrel? Does their fee usually include headspacing too?

I spoke to my Dad last night and he has concerns that the receiver may not be sertifiable. I don't think that there are any issues with the reciever, since it just has some suface rust that SHOULD come off with some effort. He said that a gun smith will chekc for cracks and make sure that there are no safety concerns. I have never had any gun smith work on anything of mine, and have absolutely no idea what to expect for a charge. I don't want to get taken for a ride when it comes time to pay for their services.

My father said that if the smithy says the gun is "junk", then I should just scrap out the gun and walk away. I just have a hard time with that notion, and feel that this gun MUST be salvageable....it's gotta be, right??

Whatever the market will bear. I'm sure it varies quite a lot by region, and depends on any additional work that is involved or perceived.

To screw on a barrel and check it with a headspace gage is simple; the tools are readily available and probably won't cost any more than the gunsmith visit. But, if it doesn't headspace right, then you've got a problem that the gunsmith will need to attend to.

If you are in doubt of the receiver's condition, it can be magnafluxed for cracks. However that will not tell you how deep any rust pits are, nor if they are making the receiver unsafe. That is a judgement call. Two different gunsmiths may give you two totally different opinions.

Judging by your excellent pictures,The gun appears to be servicable.If a Gunsmith calls it junk;get a second opinion.
However,returning it to it's previous state is a lost cause.A Sporter is your best course of action.Numrich Arms had barrels for the )03 for $93.00 in their 2001 catalog.
Frank

The only way you're going to know is to check around with some of your shooter friends for gunsmith recommendations and go visit the 'smith.

You might be making more out of this than needs be. A good 'smith should be able to inspect the rifle and determine if it is restorable to some sort of cosmetic condition and if the action/barrel/bore is satisfactory for normal shooting. I'd go that route before envisioning stock/barrel replacements.

A reputable gunsmith should be able to inspect your rifle and give his opinions on its condition, options to repair or replace the barrel and his cost estimates. I would not deal with a gunsmith that did not give a reasonable quote before doing any work. My local gunsmith is a terrific craftsman and does excellent work at fair prices. He charges me about $100.00 to rebarrel, fit and headspace my barrel and blue it. All the best...
Gil

measure the barrel if its 24" its right.the cmp may have barrels.a 03a3 barrel will work but will not take origanal rear sight.wonder if it was scoped in ww1.if you wanted to shoot deer fine.a nice load for target is 311291/309-170 with 13 gr RED DOT at 1680.it still is a mk1 and would have value for that.you would need all the hardware and stock to restore.Its a family heirlom keep it as such.

measure the barrel if its 24" its right.the CMP may have barrels.a 03a3 barrel will work but will not take original rear sight.wonder if it was scoped in ww1.if you wanted to shoot deer fine.a nice load for target is 311291/309-170 with 13 gr RED DOT at 1680.it still is a mk1 and would have value for that.you would need all the hardware and stock to restore.Its a family heirloom keep it as such.


See the link below from the CMP site. The surplus parts are gone. All the best...
Gil

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/sales.htm

Will ANY 1903 barrel work??
Yes they should. If you find a 03/A3 barrel it may be of the 2 groove variety. It will shoot just fine.

I have an '03-a3 that was very tastefully sporterized after WWII, cutting and forming the original stock and using the original sights. I thought about restoring it, but then thought that it was also an excellent example of a "period" rifle and decided to leave it as-is. I have an '03-a3 and an '03 from the DCM also for my "collectors". Just a thought, you might have it checked by a 'smith (money well spent, either way) and if its sound enough to shoot, restore it as well as you can for your grandfather's gun. That would make it priceless to me, anyway.

If the inside of the barrel is rusted out then buy a surplus barrel ($125), add a scope ($150)and beadblast and reparkerize ($100) the action parts, and put it in a boyds stock 1903A3 C stock ($125).

Or sell the action/rifle for $100-150 and buy a surplus rifle.

With your rifle in such bad surface condition you may want to consider having it parkerized. Many of the Springfield guns from that era ended up parkerized during and after WW2 - so the finish (while not original) would still be authentic. With bad pitting parkerizing will give the best possible re-finish without having to buff out too much metal. Most arsenal refinished guns have a mixture of parts (my 03A3 is a Smith Corona with a Remington 1903 bolt). Odessa

PS do a Google search for Culver's Shooting Pages - all the MILSURP buffs hang out there - you will get some recommendations for a gunsmith in your area who does milsurp work - who may have some or all of the parts in stock.

If the bore and chamber have no rust. Load it up, tie it down, and with a long string let er bang. If you are afraid of that scenario, let me ask you this did you shoot that SKS before you had a competent gunsmith check it out? Them crude things scare the heck out of me, and I have shot them. If the string pulling the trigger on five rounds does not blow it up, mount a scope take it to a range and check it for groups at 50-100yds. If it groups okay, tear it apart, have it sand blasted then give it a camo paint job. Makes back into a good hunter that way. Go visit the second cousin with a hired 300lb female, karate expert on PMS that loves old guns in good condition. As he deserves a good B!7C4 Slapping.

Hello again!! I just wanted to post a little update and thank everyone that has posted on this rifle of mine. There are a lot of great ideas and a lot of encouragement, and I truly appreciate ALL of it!

Since my original posting, I admit that I had not done a whole lot with this rifle. It had sat quietly in the corner, like it's done for the past year. I've looked at a lot of the Springfield sites and tried to figure out what on Earth I was going to do with the gun. The fact that it has been sporterized and had the Redfield sight holes bored in the top (not to mention the scary amounts of rust all over the gun) has really discouraged me from pursuing an original restoration. Also, the original resto stuff costs an arm and a leg! OUCH! So needless to say, I really shelved any ideas of this gun being like the way it was in 1918.

So I awoke one morning with this brainstorm. "Why can't I??" I figured since the gun has pretty much lost all value that it had in it;s original form, I thought why couldn't I try and salvage the gun using the parts that I have, and the tools that I have on hand?? This idea was sparked mainly because I don't have a lot of money to throw at the gun, and also just out of morbid curiosity to see if a total rust-bucket can be saved. There was that thought in my head that a guy really couldn't do any more damage than Mother Nature had already done in the trunk of my 2nd cousin's car! So here's where I've ended up so far. (Purists...please spare me the hate mail....she was a goner anyways!!)

DISASSEMBLY! I took the old girl out to the garage and took her apart...not down to the nuts, springs, or screws, but I removed all major parts from the gun and carefully bagged the parts. I need to get a manual or a good online site that shows how all of the firing pin pieces and safety parts go together in order to progress to the final stages of the "resto".

HANG ON TIGHT! There was one part of this project that really frightened me the most, and that was getting the rust off of the barrel and receiver. I know that there are like a million ways of doing that, but there was one thing that I had on hand....a Ryobi corner sander. With a myriad of sanding grits on hand, I set to work carefully moving the sander back and forth across the barrel. The bluing came off and to my shock, so did the RUST! After a few hours of using various grits, I now have a barrel and receiver that are completely free of rust. There are a few pits in the metal, but after actually looking at the factory casting of the receiver, the metal was not perfectly smooth to begin with. I've done my absolute best to ensure that there are no low spots, and I'm actually quite pleased with the results. There is still some work that I have to do on the reciever and bolt assy, but I have high hopes.

I've wrestled back and forth with the finish that I am going to use on the parts, as there are a few different routes to go. I've looked at Brownell's, considered Parkerizing, but have ultimately settled on a company that makes DuraCoat. The cool thing with this process is that it's a cold process (no baking), has a step called DuraFill that will fill in the low spots, and has a color choice of like 50 colors. It costs 50 bucks for the kit, not including the DuraFill. Now I'm just debating on which color. I really like the silver color of the barrel, the way that it is now, but I don't have the tools to get the metal to a mirror-like finish before coating it with a clear enamel. So I think that I will go with one of the following colors: Park Gray, Silver, Matte Black, or tan. The last one is a bit different than the others, but I've thought that a desert camo '03 would actually look cool! Never seen one before. The finish should look nice when it's all said and done, and they say that the finish is as tough as nails. Tough is good.

TAKE STOCK!! The sporter stock that I have is an old stock that is pretty dark from the years of use, and rust abuse. I've thought of just sanding it down and refinishing it, but there's a part of me that wants to just linseed the snot out of it and use it. The stock has some "stains" on it from the rust that it endured. I guess you could call them battle wounds of sorts. It really has a history, and would like to keep some of that. I used Simple-Green to get a lot of the dirt and (??) off of the wood, and it did not raise any of the grains. I then oiled it down to keep it from drying out, and it has this wierd/cool old rust/camo look to it. My buddy loves the look, and he says that I should not change it. I'm still not sure if I will keep it that way or not. I really would like to see some sort of custom stock made to look like a military tactical rifle, but they don't seem to exist. There's either the "stock" stocks, or the sporter stocks. I don't really want mine to look like a run-of-the-mill deer rifle. I actually came across a custom stock maker that had a BLUE stained stock, and it looked cool! Way different....way cool. If anyone knows of a stock maker that makes a tactical style stock, please let me know.

SCOPE THIS!! The Bushnell that came with the rifle (3x9) is a pile of poo. There are wierd rusty marks on the optics, and it's just really crap. I plan to get a decent long-eye relief scope, preferrably an illuminated reticle for covert ops. Wait....who am I kidding? I think a nice Tasco would get the job done, since I'm sure I won't be making any sniper shots at 1200 yards!! I can't see dropping $500 on a scope, especially where this is a project rifle anyways. I need to either refinish the Redfield mounts and rings, or just spring for a new set. Budget is the key phrase here.

So there is is folks. My project in a nutshell. I'm hoping to have the rifle completed within the next month or so, depending on finances and all. It will definitely be one of a kind when the rust settles....I mean....dust settles. I have not taken any recent pics, but I will need to take some so that others can see what I've done. I think before I get her all painted, I'd like to take her out and sand bag her down and fire a few rounds through her, just to see if I need to even bother with refinishing it!! I mean heck, if it blows up, what's the point, right?! LOL. I'm sure it will be fine, and I will keep you updated as time goes on. Thanks again for all of your encouraging words!!