I have a project that I was asked to look into that deals with accurizing the WASR 2 or the WASR 3. I am asking in this surplus rifle section because it is more than a gunsmithing issue as the cartridges are involved here too.

First, my understanding is that the rifles in question are:
WASR 2 in 5.45 x 39 caliber

And WASR 3 in .223.NATO
My questions are:

1) Do these rifles function fairly well with either cartridge, or is one or the other more prone to malfunction?
Are they both awful?

2) What mags are used with these rifles? Are the 7.62 x 39 mags interchangeable? Are other AK variant mags interchangeable?

3) All other things being equal, (which of course they never are) is accurizing one of these guns necessary or practical? The rifle will be used as a companion to an accurized bolt or single shot for coyote shooting.

4) Would I be better off to mess with a Mini 14 even though they cost at least $100 more? I have done some accuracy work on the Mini 14 with some success.

5) What would be a good first, second, third… step to see the accuracy potential of the WASR rifles, any low cost yet effective tricks could help.

6) There does not seem to be a practical difference between the two cartridges balistically, it seems that the 5.45’s only advantages are that it is the original(?) cartridge for the WASR and should have less feeding problems and it will be easier to chamber and feed in a Mauser since the bolt face is so close to the 8 x 57 bolt face. Does this seem reasonable?

7) How do I get myself into these projects? It seemed like we were discussing duck hunting then the conversation wandered…..

I’m doing this endeavor mostly for the curiosity factor, since I have a chance at a working with a design I’ve never had much experience with, but I’d like to tell the guy if it’s going to be extremely expensive or impractical.

Thank you for any input on this project.

Regards,
Gene

1) What you are dealing with are rifles with miscellaneous parts added at the factory.
With that said I have had 3 WASR and WASRgp rifles and all functioned very well with only minor filing of the feed ramp and or a good cleaning
Some from what I hear are pretty rough out of the box.

2)I use the brown bakelite mags for my 5.45x39. And steel Eastern block mags for my 7.63x39. I don’t know if you can switch between .223 and 5.45 mags. I would not.

3) These rifles are design for mass fire close combat. I have good accuracy out to 200 yards with mine. Good enough to take a coyote. You would be using the rifles potential better if you opened up on your target.

4) You will probably get slightly better accuracy with the mini 14. Ammunition plays an important role in accuracy. The available ammunition for the WASR is usually manufactured to meet the rifles original specs. Military applications.

5) Putting a good quality scope using the original scope mount bracket for the rifle is first and foremost. Shooting quality copper jacketed boat tail ammo second. The stuff manufactured overseas is copper/nickel. Third shoot the rifle 500 to 600 rounds for break in. Unless you want to get into a lot of money to add an accurized barrel and trigger group thats it.

6) The 5.45 for the WASR are not necessarily the original. Remember the WASR is a mutt when it comes to ak’s. I would not chamber the 5.54 in a 8x57 mauser. Your asking for a catastrophic event

7) My advice would be to get a crate of ammo and have a fun day a shooting with your WASR. Shooting is fun. Nobody I know says you only get one shot at a coyote. Good luck

Thanks 5150:
By the way, the intention was to rebarrel an 8 x57 Mauser to 5.45 and accurize the bolt action for longer range.

Using the buddy system to hunt coyotes, one guy watches the trees/brush while the other watches feild/fence lines. Matching the chamberings of the rifles is important only to create less confusion when going out.

Thanks again for the info.

Regards,
Gene

I have a project that I was asked to look into that deals with accurizing the WASR 2 or the WASR 3. I am asking in this surplus rifle section because it is more than a gunsmithing issue as the cartridges are involved here too.

First, my understanding is that the rifles in question are:
WASR 2 in 5.45 x 39 caliber

And WASR 3 in .223.NATO
My questions are:

1) Do these rifles function fairly well with either cartridge, or is one or the other more prone to malfunction?
Are they both awful?

2) What mags are used with these rifles? Are the 7.62 x 39 mags interchangeable? Are other AK variant mags interchangeable?

3) All other things being equal, (which of course they never are) is accurizing one of these guns necessary or practical? The rifle will be used as a companion to an accurized bolt or single shot for coyote shooting.

4) Would I be better off to mess with a Mini 14 even though they cost at least $100 more? I have done some accuracy work on the Mini 14 with some success.

5) What would be a good first, second, third… step to see the accuracy potential of the WASR rifles, any low cost yet effective tricks could help.

6) There does not seem to be a practical difference between the two cartridges balistically, it seems that the 5.45’s only advantages are that it is the original(?) cartridge for the WASR and should have less feeding problems and it will be easier to chamber and feed in a Mauser since the bolt face is so close to the 8 x 57 bolt face. Does this seem reasonable?

7) How do I get myself into these projects? It seemed like we were discussing duck hunting then the conversation wandered…..

I’m doing this endeavor mostly for the curiosity factor, since I have a chance at a working with a design I’ve never had much experience with, but I’d like to tell the guy if it’s going to be extremely expensive or impractical.

Thank you for any input on this project.

Regards,
Gene

Gene, I have a Wasr2.
1. Funtions very well, no feeding or extraction issues.

2.All mags for different calibers are "different", they are not interchageable. Saiga mags won't work Either.

3. The front sight always needs adjustment, an easy process. I think that under 150 yards it will work well for Yotes as is.

4. Well there are 2 issues here. There is no hunting ammo availible in 5.45, but there is for .223. A mini is not a bad idea, but the AK will take a ton of punishment and accuracy is about eqaul at 100 yards.

5. There are scope mounts for the Wasr3, that is what I would do.

6. I'm not sure what you are getting at? 5.45x39 and 8x57 are worlds appart and not interchangable.

7. You have the "Itis". It is a very common disease to catch. I would go w/ the .223, and look into a longer butt stock to give a longer pull. The sight will handle 100 yard Yote kills easy, 150+ with a scope. Good luck, your in for some fun!! Jim

The 8mm should be read as a model 98 Mauser. I had said this wrong in my original post( too many late nights and early mornings at work.)

I would rebarrel and rechamber this action to the round that is decided on. It just seems easier to rechamber/rebarrel to the 5.45 round since the base of the case is similar to the 8mm base. Also feeding issues from the magazine of the Mauser should be lessened, as opposed to rebarreling/rechambering the action to .223.

I was not planning on firing any thing in the 8mm barrel that is currently on this action ( if you saw it you'd understand), this is a model 98 rebuild project along with a WASR question. They are linked only because they should end up in the same caliber at the end of the project. This way they will go hunting with interchangable ammo and minimal out put for reloading dies ext.

Thank you for your input.

Regards,
Gene

Gene, You may save on reloading dies, but the 8x57 is a stellar cartridge. For the price of converting a 98 you could buy a Stevens 200 in .223. You will need a new, custom made bolt face, new barrel, Modify the mag well and follower and lots of tweeking. That is allot of work and you can get a new rifle without the hassle. There are still K98 and 7x57 barrels availible for an easier fix. Jim

Jpattersonnh:

I do like the 8 x57 Mauser, Thing is, this is a project I am looking into for a friend. If it was my project I’d rebarrel the action to .22-250 or 6mm-06 and not worry about the cartridge the semi auto was. I’d just want the semi to get minute of coyote accuracy at 150 yards or so (probably 50 yards more than needed).

I remember setting up a small ring Mauser for the 5.45 round back when it was called the .220 Russian. It was not terribly difficult, though there was some fussing and cussing involved. That’s one of the things that made it interesting for me.

Yeah, I do have the “itis” real bad, realized it with that last statement. Knew it was there, but not how bad.
Any way, thanks again for your comments.

Regards,
Gene

The WASR’s vary widely in fit and finish most have reasonable accuracy, some have reliability problems that can be easily fixed. The sights are conventional AK sights so they aren’t very good. You can get a side rail mount scope for about $100.00 but due to how they mount there will be a lot of flex. Forget the top cover mounts they are junk. A Red Star Arms trigger group will really help. Typical AK accuracy is in the 3”-6” inch range @100 yard some shoot better some shoot worse. You can tighten up the rails and gas piston to gain some accuracy but then you sacrifice reliability-big time. Due to the thin barrels and how the gas system operates its hard to make them tack drivers. The 5.56 versions have a better selection of bullets than the 5.45’s. For a fun gun they are hard to beat. I have never been a big fan of the mini-14 but they are probably better now than they used to be.
Here are some links if you have any questions.

http://www.gunco.net
http://www.akfiles.com