I carry a S&W 642 in .38spcl. I have it loaded with 125 gr. Speer Gold Dot JHP +P. In the september issue of Combt Handguns there is an article stating three drawbacks with the snubbie.

1. Small frame can make it uncomfortable to shoot

2. Low velocity does not allow for JHP expansion.

3. Fixed sight snubbies do not shoot to point of aim (outside of 10 feet) with any ammo that is not 158 LRN.

I agree with the first statement. If you are not familiar with the gun it can be a handful.

Can anyone validate the second statement? I carry the dot dot for JHP expansion and stopping power. Do i need to swith to a SWC or some other load to gain maximum stopping power?

I have to disagree with the third statement. I agree a fixed sight 2" gun will not produce 1" groups at 50 yds, but my 642 shoots well enough out to 15 yds to consistantly hit center mass of a silhouette.

Any thoughts or comments?

Gold Dot is what I carry, no complaints.

1. The small frame is the trade off for weight and concealability but it's a good trade.

2. Expansion, I don't care about expansion in a snubby. Too many factors anyway, bullet type, velocity and what you hit. Penetration might be more important than expansion, if I need to shoot through a boom box, don't want my bullet to frag on the plastic.

3. Fixed sights, good for short range, less weight, won't snag.

I want usable accuracy out to 15 yards or so, that's all you need. If you self defendeth yourself at a 100 yards, the cops may have some questions for you.

Drawbacks? Aren't any, stop reading Combat Handguns except for entertainment purposes.

I agree no real drawbacks for me either with the 2". And yes combat handguns is an entertaining rag.

Thanks for your input.

I'll go with what lumberjak said. Here's mine and the pocket holster it goes into. This goes into my front jeans pocket and there's no outline and it just disappears.

Mine is a Taurus Ultra-light and it's both very accurate for a snubby and a joy to shoot with 38 special loads. It has one of the best single and double action trigger I've ever had on a J frame size gun.

I too use gold dots and I don't know about in a body, but they sure expand shot thru jugs of water.

Mine is very accurate with the fixed sights to 10 or 15 yards. Why would you want one that would be accurate at long ranges. The idea of this gun is protection under the 7 yard envelope. I've seen one of the trick shooters on TV shooting balloons at a hundred yards with a 2 inch snubby.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q172/faucettb/Preditor%20masters/Taurus38.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q172/faucettb/Preditor%20masters/Taurus38specialwpocketholster.jpg

Gents,

Mine is a mod 38 Smith, have had it for years, and it is the gun that I carry the most often. I understand that I am compromising some aspects of performance for convienence, and I'm good with that.

When able, I carry a gun that is more robust, but mostly because I shoot those better. While there is some gain in terms of effectiveness with bigger bores or quicker bullets, I don't think it to be nearly as much as advertised. I've weighed in prior to my thoughts on pistol cartridge "knockdown power", so I won't re-bore you all with my notions on the subject.

It does make allot of sense to carry a pistol that is matched with its cartridge, and I think that these airweights are matched very well. I can't handle one of those Scandium 357s, and have a hard time with a 15oz 40, so a 13oz 38SP is exactly the right blend, to me at least.

I saw that same article, and I think the rounds that he showed not expanding were fairly heavily constructed, likely Hornady's. I bought some of those Speers, and believe that they will be just fine for your application. I use lead hollowpoints in my gun, but carry one speedloader of Speers in the pocket, because lead bullets carried in the pocket can get pretty ugly after just a little while.

I really like these little guns, and think that if the operator is up to the task, then the pistol itself is certainly.

Best to you fellows.

Steve

My regular and preferred carry gun is a Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Special. The bull barrel is 2 3/4"but I think that still qualifies as a snubbie. The WW Silvertips I use only launch at 700 fps, so I don't count on expansion even from these vary soft bullets (which are in fact specifically designed for those speeds). Two of those big lumps through the second shirt button ought to take care of any problem I'm being offered - and leave three more for his buddy.

Most of the factories do sight them in with the old 158 grain load,,but thats no problem for the 2",

You mite want to look at the newer 135 grain jhp load designed for the short tubed guns, its working better.

For years my back up was either a dick spl or S&W j frame, always stoked it with the old Chicago/New York load,, 158 SWCHP, it never failed me when needed

I still carry a J-frame, but it's a third gun.
A last chance gun.
I will no longer carry one as my only gun if it's at all possible. There are other guns I can carry as easily that I can shoot much better, like my Kahr. There are others that take a little more effort to carry, but if I can shoot them more effectively, it's worth that effort.

But I still carry one because I've done it so long. I went without carrying one for a little while, but couldn't stand it. I say I carry one in case I have to hand a gun to my wife, and it's what she knows...but really, I just like 'em.

As far as the original statements go:

-Yes, they are hard to shoot. The small grip, combined with the long, heavy trigger (DA) and short sight radius require some work to keep on target. That's hard enough to do on the range, let alone in a fight.

-I think some bullets will expand (I carry 158 +P SWC-HP) some, or most, of the time. But I'm too concerned about getting the hits first to worry much about it.

- Point of aim/point of impact. It can be a problem, and if there is any gun you want to hit where aimed- this is it. With the J-frame I'm carrying now, I tried three brands of the same 158 +P SWC-HP, and each grouped in a different place. Luckily, one was just above the sights, and that's how it got chosen.

They aren't the best thing available, and I don't think they're even close. But they will work if we do our part. But doing our part is awfully difficult with a snubby.

I like the Taurus Ti guns. Carry one in full .357 Magnum.

It's accurate enough to mostly hit a paper plate at 25 yards. That doesn't sound like bragging but most likely a lot of the poor shooting is my fault, not the gun's. It is simply the most painful thing I own to shoot, by far.

It's horribly loud.

It WILL expand with 125gr. Cor-Bons. I put one through a deer's neck that was still wiggling. My son found the bullet in the dirt, nicely expanded. They chrono at about 1200 fps or so.

Got to say I'm a fan of the snubbies.

cemtech12
My summer carry is SP101 2 1/4' in 357 Mag.

Ammo- my reload of 125gr Gold Dot at about 1200 fps! Mushroom- you bet!

In 38 SP 135 gr GoldDot SNB +P loading at about 1100 fps Mushroom everytime!

Both loads are very accurrate out to 20 yrds when I do my part!
:D

MikeG
You definately like pain if you shoot one of those light guns!! Heck even 38's hurt! SP101 all the way! If I want pain I'll shoot the 454 Casull!!

cemtech,
My summer carry is a S&W 637 or a Colt COBRA. 38spl ammo is better than it was 25yrs ago. Winter carry is a Kimber SLE 45acp. The Cobra is my favorite.

I have a Taurus model 617 7 shot .357 magnum with a 2-inch barrel.
I carry Buffalo Bore 125gr Gold Dot loaded round. They chronograph out of my gun at 1400fps, yes that’s right 1400 out of a 2-inch barrel.
I would not recommend them for those who are sensitive to recoil but for me they are great.
And yes they do expand.
I added a link with their products and chronographs out of real guns not test barrels.
I get 1600fps out of my 4-inch Ruger GP100.

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#9mm

I also have a 642 and can hit pretty well at 20 yards or so. It carries very well for me. I just got a S&W in 40 cal and think that there are few trade offs to get more bang. They both carry well in their own right. Still got the 642 and plan to have it for a while. Each has its place

Ocasionaly carry a Smith Model 36, loaded with the now unavailable Pro Load 110 gr. JHP. I've used it as a finisher twice with whitetails, shooting thru the chest cavity at 3 yars or so. Don't figure to be in a self defense shooting at much farther than that. Expansion has been fine, both times to about .475 or so. Testing two bullets is not enough data to be conclusive, but does point in the right directtion.

POA and POI are close enough out to ten yards. Writers have to write something to sell, editors need to buy something to print. Take everything with massive amounts of salt.

I carry a S&W 642 in .38spcl. I have it loaded with 125 gr. Speer Gold Dot JHP +P. In the september issue of Combt Handguns there is an article stating three drawbacks with the snubbie.

1. Small frame can make it uncomfortable to shoot

2. Low velocity does not allow for JHP expansion.

3. Fixed sight snubbies do not shoot to point of aim (outside of 10 feet) with any ammo that is not 158 LRN.

I agree with the first statement. If you are not familiar with the gun it can be a handful.

Can anyone validate the second statement? I carry the dot dot for JHP expansion and stopping power. Do i need to swith to a SWC or some other load to gain maximum stopping power?

I have to disagree with the third statement. I agree a fixed sight 2" gun will not produce 1" groups at 50 yds, but my 642 shoots well enough out to 15 yds to consistantly hit center mass of a silhouette.

Any thoughts or comments?

I have shot the Speer 135 Gr. Gold Dot into ballistic gelatin and it reliably expands to .50 or better and penetrates to 12 inches. You can't ask more from a snubbie than that.
As for the accuracy with loads other than 158 Gr. that is hogwash. I qualify with my SW 357PD and have no problem with it. It is not as accurate as a full size pistol because it is NOT a full size pistol; that is why I carry it.

Might be interesting to load up some Penn 230 gr Thunderheads. They are cast of soft lead and are used in bowling pin matches at 900 fps. Recoil shouldn't be any worse than some of the +P ammo shot through snubbies or firing 246 gr 44 spl in a Bulldog.

I carry a S&W 642 in .38spcl. I have it loaded with 125 gr. Speer Gold Dot JHP +P. In the september issue of Combt Handguns there is an article stating three drawbacks with the snubbie.

1. Small frame can make it uncomfortable to shoot

2. Low velocity does not allow for JHP expansion.

3. Fixed sight snubbies do not shoot to point of aim (outside of 10 feet) with any ammo that is not 158 LRN.

I agree with the first statement. If you are not familiar with the gun it can be a handful.

Can anyone validate the second statement? I carry the dot dot for JHP expansion and stopping power. Do i need to swith to a SWC or some other load to gain maximum stopping power?

I have to disagree with the third statement. I agree a fixed sight 2" gun will not produce 1" groups at 50 yds, but my 642 shoots well enough out to 15 yds to consistantly hit center mass of a silhouette.

Any thoughts or comments?

Hi check this link out they talk about 38's and some of the ammo is tested, very impressive!! tell me what ya think

Tom j
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot27.htm

I'll go with what lumberjak said. Here's mine and the pocket holster it goes into. This goes into my front jeans pocket and there's no outline and it just disappears.

Mine is a Taurus Ultra-light and it's both very accurate for a snubby and a joy to shoot with 38 special loads. It has one of the best single and double action trigger I've ever had on a J frame size gun.

I too use gold dots and I don't know about in a body, but they sure expand shot thru jugs of water.

Mine is very accurate with the fixed sights to 10 or 15 yards. Why would you want one that would be accurate at long ranges. The idea of this gun is protection under the 7 yard envelope. I've seen one of the trick shooters on TV shooting balloons at a hundred yards with a 2 inch snubby.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q172/faucettb/Preditor%20masters/Taurus38.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q172/faucettb/Preditor%20masters/Taurus38specialwpocketholster.jpg

Love your gun what's the trigger pull like on your Taurus and what's the weight might want to gt one of them. Thanks

Tom j

The main disadvantage to a snub is only five shots. Carry some extra ammo. The Buffalo Bore ammo would be my choice. The 158 gr hp looks good. CorBon has a 110 grain load that should be OK. Ive shot varmints with that bullet and they work well. I use a G26 with CorBon 115 gr. 13 shots seems a little better to me but the snub is OK too.

I've carried a 2" .38 for many years. Once had a Colt Agent that I foolishly traded away. Right now I carry a Taurus 85BUL in one of Robert Mika's pocket holsters. My carry load has been and still is the venerable 158gr LSWCHP, aka the FBI load, or the Chicago load, etc . . . I usually have a speedloader and/or a speed strip on me as well.

Using Federal 110-gr Hydra Shock for my S&W 637 as I found the box marked down to $7.00 at Wally World and in my Taurus 44C I'm using 240-gr Hornady XTP's

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t33/JB59901/SW637andTaurus44CSBS.jpg

I also carry a S&W 642 with 125 gr +P in a pocket holster and a Bianchi Speed Strip in my other pocket. I feel perfectly comfortable with the firearm. It shoots pretty much to point of aim at 10 to 15 yards with +P ammo. It does have a bit of recoil and you have to get used to the small grips but in a shoot or be shot circumstance I probably won't notice either one. During my 22 years of law enforcement, I often carried a fixed sight revolver. I remember a shooting instructor chastising me for not having ajustable sights but after I shoot several perfect rounds with my sidearm he didn't bother anymore.

The main disadvantage to a snub is only five shots. Carry some extra ammo. The Buffalo Bore ammo would be my choice. The 158 gr hp looks good. CorBon has a 110 grain load that should be OK. Ive shot varmints with that bullet and they work well. I use a G26 with CorBon 115 gr. 13 shots seems a little better to me but the snub is OK too.

You can get the Taurus guns in 7-shooters.

If I have to shoot more people in one day than that, I'm staying home!

I'm going to limit my defensive shooting to five folks. I do carry a couple of speed loaders in the other pocket, though in the summer one of them has five snake loads.

The problem with all these big guns is they take up a lot of room in a pocket or you've got to wear some kind of concealment holster. Of course the big advantage to the revolver is I've never had one stovepipe.

With a five shooter I will just have to shoot him four times and save the last one in case he is still kicking......

Taurus Model 85 UltraLite Titanium has never done me wrong, fits in the pocket and is nice and light. 5 rounds of .38 Spl is more than enough for a defense situation. only problem is it scratches easy :(

I carry a S&W 638 airweight in my pocket - Gold dot ammo - it does the job and by any chance -if I need more it will get me to my Glock 30

I carry a Colt Detective Special as my BUG. I can hit Bianchi 8 inch plates from the 25 yard line all day and have occasionally hit the 100 yard LaRue targets. For carry I keep it loaded with Corbon 125 grain DPX. In all of the testing in ballistics gel I have participated in this round has never failed to expand even through 4 layers of denim. In the bedroom it goes in the headboard loaded with Thunderzaps to back up the 12 gauge next to the bed.

I would load Penn 148 gr double bevel based wadcutters to 800 fps out of your snubby. The flat nose of that bullet would rival some of the meplats on 45 cal hardcast (.36"). They wouldn't need to expand and a couple of those in a BG's chest cavity should dissuade him of any evil intentions. Remember, a hollowpoint that doesn't expand due to low velocity or the HP getting plugged, is essentially a RN or SWC, neither of which will have the frontal area of a full wadcutter. If you could stand the recoil, Penn makes a 230 gr Thunderhead which is essentially a .357 cal softcast lead WC that is used by guys that shoot Bowling Pins. IIRC Because it is soft cast, velocity is topped at 900 fps which you wouldn't get out of a snubby anyway. At across the room ranges it should be rather wicked on the receiving end.

My "companion" is a Rossi Model M685, .38 special snub nose, 2.5" barrel, 5 shot, blue steel,checkered wood grips. Really cool,older model Rossi, imported by Interarms; well balanced too!

I have a S&W model 60. I know! It has a 3 " Bbl and is not really a snubbie but to me it is very concealable and carriable and has adjustable sights! It is rated for +P ammo in 38 special.

Once you get used to the recoil it is nice.

I also carry a SP101 in a .357; only "snubby", IMHO, that can handle a steady diet of "mag" ammo. It's accurate, but not quite as small and lightweight as the "Smiths" and Taurus models (both excellent BTW). I've not tried the pocket holster and like the one Bob listed (I carry mine in a leather "highride", open top "hugger"). I probably don't need .357 ammo, but the 3 foot of flame and noise should scare the "crap" out of them even if I miss :D

I did not read the entire thred so sorry I this is a suto dupe. I hated Revolvers for SD untill i started haveing problems with my Kahr PM-9. I no longer have the gun. I wanted a pocket gun to ware when I i ware tighter shirts that I cannot conceal a "real gun." I carried and still do carry a G20. However there are times when it is just not practical. I went to my local dealer that I trust. Told him what happend with the PM-9. I bought the gun from him. This was the 3rd go round with this gun. He offered me a bran new S&W 642 in trade for the broken PM-9. I figgured what the heck. He sent the gun back to the factory. I shot it at the range it jumps I have to squeez the crap out of it. after about 30 or so rounds my hand started to get sore. After about a week of having it I carry it a lot more than I thought I would and i dont think I would give it up. I also find myself carrying it sometimes more than my G20. Here are the +'es that I have come up with:

Light weight

Easy to carry (prettymuch drop in pocket with hoster)

From what I have scene there are several rounds that will penetate adequately and give expansion

Contact shots will not jam your gun

The -'s

5 rounds

reloading is slow atleast in my hands

For me it is a 7 yard gun at max.

If you carry a snubby you have to understand its limitations. Just as you must understand the limitations of whatever you decide to carry.

Once you get used to the recoil it is nice.

+1 on the Ruger Alaskan, carrying on a trip out of town next weekend. Don't leave home without it. :)

I also carry a SP101 in a .357; only "snubby", IMHO, that can handle a steady diet of "mag" ammo. It's accurate, but not quite as small and lightweight as the "Smiths" and Taurus models (both excellent BTW). I've not tried the pocket holster and like the one Bob listed (I carry mine in a leather "highride", open top "hugger"). I probably don't need .357 ammo, but the 3 foot of flame and noise should scare the "crap" out of them even if I miss :D

Dittos - at least when I can't carry my G27 or feel that leaving brass lying around is a bad idea, or I want more Punch...

I normally carry Federal Premium 180gr SJHPs... unless I'm in the woods and there I would ONLY trust a Ruger to not blow up with my Win 92 handloads... (180gr Hard CastGC + 16gr LilGun...)

I mostly carry my G27 because it's Tuckable, which is important where I carry, and, to date, I've only found 3 holster makers that make a Tuckable for the SP101. BUT I just ordered a BearClaw Covert Assignment tuckable Kydex for it so I can carry it more often.

I also prefer my SP101 for Winter carry. Coat Pockets & Revolvers just seem to go better together than Coat Pockets and a G27 (my "normal" carry).

SP101 here
I carry with silvertips but practice with .38spc

I carry a Ruger Super Redhawk the is a Jack Huntington creation, it is called the Super Streethawk. It is a 2 inch 454 Casull. What a blast to shoot.

Redhawk1
Now thats funny -if the flame don't burn them to death then the shock wave will jellify there inerds!!:) God forbid you hit them with the bullet!!!;) P.S I have carried my 7.5" version on occasion! :D

Redhawk1
Now thats funny -if the flame don't burn them to death then the shock wave will jellify there inerds!!:) God forbid you hit them with the bullet!!!;) P.S I have carried my 7.5" version on occasion! :D


It is modified to shoot 45 ACP's with moon clips, as well as 45 Win Mags in moon clips. It will still shoot the 45 Colts as well as the 454 rounds.

When I go to my land in West Virginia, I carry it with some beefed up 454 Casull loads.

Yea, it someone gets to close to the muzzle it is like a blow torch. LOL

As posted earlier I carry a SRH, 454 Casull. I also carry one of the 2.5 in barrel Taurus in 44 Mag. It is ported and certainly controllable. Has a 5 rd cylinder so hopefully I can fight my way back to the truck and the 454 or 45 1911. I do love the big bores. If Ruger ever comes out wiith a 44 on their 101 frame I wlll be one of the 1st in line. Ghave a good time, that's the main thing,.

I carry a S&W 586 L Comp 2-2.5" depending on weather you count the muzzle brake. It does have adjustable tritium sights, round butt, smooth narrow trigger. If I do my part I have confidence inside 25yds. I believe accuracy at greater distances will not suffer because of the weapon/ammo.
I use Rem Saber or Gold Dot in compact .45ACP and currently Hornady TAP in the .357.
I did carry the S&W .44 Spec 2" for many years, but hiding the N frame was not the goal. I still carry a .380 w/gold dots for a back-up.

I carry a S&W 649 .38 Spec. on my bike. Nice pocket size , easy to carry and hide.

I have two snubbies, one is a Colt Cobra LW and the other is a S&W Bodyguard(steel). The S&W is a little easier to shoot by virtue of the weight of the gun. I have fired a few Super-Vel rounds through the Cobra and it leaves an impression on the shooter and those around to witness the occasion. A steady diet of the +P rounds may affect the alloy frames.

Zapzoo
I've started to play a little with the SP101 and I can hit a man size target(COM)realiably out to 25yd or more! This arm is very acurrate even with the fixed sights! Of course 158 gr loads are the best for this type of work! The goal is to get to 6" group at 50 yds! Cause you never know how far you might need to go!