Hi there, I'm a university student in need of some sound advice for the upcoming deer hunting season. In the next couple of months I plan on getting a rifle and hopefully bagging a buck. Problem is I don't know where to start. Keep in mind I'm a Canadian reservist on a budget. In the army they don't give us that much money...

I've been looking at Remington 700's, but many are pretty darn expensive for my first gun when I'm just getting my feet wet with hunting in general. I've taken a look at the SPS version, but does cheap craftsmanship come with the cheap price? If so, what other decent alternatives are there with any good brand.

I also have no idea about what cartridge to use. Does a .300 win mag have a good deal more stopping power than a .308 win? Is having an unusual cartridge a headache when looking to buy ammo? And whats good for stopping a deer without having to go for a nice little run through the woods after you've hit it.

I also know nothing about scopes. I've been toying with the idea of not using a scope and just buying a gun that has iron sights already, is that a good idea? I plan on hunting in woods so I don't need something to let me shoot over a couple hundred yards reliably.

Thanks for any help you could give me to point in the right direction. If it matters in terms of selection. Weight isen't a real problem for me. I need the exercise anyways. I'm also not unfamiliar with firearms in general, just on civvie street.

C7, A .308 would be a good choice for deer. But a 6.5x55 or a .300 Win Mag will do the job also. Most folks tend to get caught up w/ the Bigger/ Better/ Faster/ stronger syndrome, but that always does not equal a successful hunt. .30cal, 7mm and 6.5mm bullets will do what you want, but each has different advantages and disadvantages. As far as your rifle choices, they are dictated by your pocketbook. You need to remember, there is nothing worse than a rifle that fails when you need it. So money is a relative evil. I would say if you can shoot, an iron sight rifle will be perfect for 150- yards in the woods. You can buy some rifles that are taped for a scope, but have iron sights. That would be a great way to go. Savage or Howa would both be a great start. Jim


Edit: I almost forgot! There are some great surplus rifles that would do what you want. A 91/30 Mosin Nagant in 7.62x54r will do the job for short change. A K31 Swiss 7.5x55 would be better! You could add a St. Marie mount that does not alter the rifle and still use the open sights while the scope is mounted. W/ open sights mine shoots 1.5" groups at 100 yards off hand (when I do my part).

Thanks Jim, I was thinking around a ~650CDN limit on the rifle without taking into account other requirements. I have no loyalties to any brands, so its really just whats best for someone who can shoot, but just doesen't know what to shoot.

Most important thing is hitting the deer in a vital area.heart/lung shot is the biggest target to shoot at.Get familar with the deers anatomy so you will know where to place the bullet.I think just about every state offers a hunter safety program if your not familar rules and regulations of where you intend hunt,also they should give you some advice on hunting.Check with fish and game .As far as rifles go good old used 30-30 for woodland hunting would be the ticket,It's been killing deer for over hundred years,they are light and usually inexpensive and easy to handle.Of course they are plenty of other choices to choose from ,every body is different.If you choose a 30-30 for a woodland whitetail rig you can't go wrong.But you got to do your part, know your game and hit what your aiming at

C7, Jack Monteith is from Canada and can give you the best advice of all. Send him a PM and ask his thoughts. Jim

I have a friend who is near Ottawa who should be able to give you some specific advise as to where to look for a good price on a gun if you are interested, let me know.

Having an unusual caliber gun not only makes it more difficult to find ammo, it is exponentially more expensive in most cases as well. A 308Win would probably serve you well, even on the elk and moose, however you could never go wrong with a 30-06. The 300 mags typically get alot more expensive to shoot.

Start with something you can get ammo for, where you live. Check out 2 or 3 stores and it should be obvious what is popular.

Doesn't hurt to review the hunting regulations to find out if there a minimums or maximums.

.308 is fine for deer, as is pretty much any other popular centerfire cartridge.

Be sure and know what to do with the animal once it's taken. I have been with guys that didn't seem to have a clue how to gut a deer. Just something that seems to not get discused much and a hunter needs to know, before game is down..
Oh, and good luck.

A .308 is all you need for even Saskatchewan deer. A .300 Winchester Magnum has enough kick to get painful. There's not many bolt-actions that come with iron sights now, and most have a comb that's too high for irons too. That means you get belted on your cheek when you get you head down low enough to use irons. Don't over-power yourself when you buy a scope. A 3-9X is lots for most deer hunting and I'd go even lower if I was just doing bush hunting. Say a 1.5-4.5 like the Bushnell Banner that Ranch dog recommends. Get the Multi-X reticle, not the Circle-X which I find is too busy. If it can hold up on Ranch Dog's .444, it won't have any trouble with a .308's recoil.

The Wholesale Sports site will give you a good idea of what Canadian prices are like, although buy locally from a reputable dealer if you can. Calgary is a long way from Ottawa if you have problems.
http://www.wholesalesports.com/onlinestore/control/main

Elwood Epps is an Ontario dealer who's been in business for a very long time.
http://www.ellwoodepps.com/

Bye
Jack

CZ,

Welcome to the forum. I think a .308 or the 30-06 as mentioned would be an excellent caliber to start with as that is what I got for my first centerfire just about last fall. I got a Stevens Model 200 made by Savage (http://www.savagearms.com/st_200short.htm) for US $300. It does not have iron sights though so I had to buy a scope setup for it. I would like to put Iron sights on it though. I just have not called Savage yet to see if they have any recommendations on how they would suggest going about that yet though. Maybe I should make a phone call tommorrow...

Another option would be to check the used gun rack at the gunshop after you decide on caliber. You might even come across a 30-30 which would be a good brush gun. You'd want to keep shots under 150 yards with it though.

One thing might be to hook up with an experience archery hunter and see if he would let you or show you how to clean a deer. You can read about it, see videos about it, but untill you have done it, you don't know how to do it. Alot of times the first time you try something it doesnt go as well as you had planned. But then again maybe your the bucher's son and have it all down pat. As far a a rifle goes, you want one that you are comfortable shooting. With deer, placement is 99.9% 9of the game. I have friends that hunt and kill deer regularly and cleanly with the 22-250, 223, 222, 6mm, 250 savage... one thing about these guys is that they are above average shooters who practice & know their limits. Growing up we had competitions on who could shoot the farthest woodchuck that week. To have a chance you better be out at 300 yards or better. Now these guns were sporters, nobody had bull barrels and 18 power scopes. See models were remington 700 and 788, savage 110 and 340, and a handi rifle. My favorite as long as im not shooting across valleys is my 243win. When picking your caliber, pick something that you can aford to practice with. Don't go buy something exotic that is going to cost you 50 bucks a box for ammo. One more thing, have fun...

For deer you don't need anything as powerful as a 300 magnum. Ontario and Quebec deer are not that big. The cost of ammo is huge the recloil can be intimidating. Anything from .243 good deer guns. Shot placement is important with any caliber. I would buy a good used rifle with scope for my first gun and there are plenty for the money you are spending. .270 winchester , 308, or 30-30 and the 25-06 with heavy bullets are good choices out any reasonable range. For bush you can even do well with a scoped shotgun with a rifled barrel and sabot slugs. They can shoot out to 130 yards as accurate as many rifles and a barrel change gets you a shot gun for smaller game and water foul hunting. Good luck

A Remington 700 SPS would work well if that's what you go with. Other guns that may be in your price range are the Savage 11G, Stevens 200, Weatherby Vanguard, Ruger 77, and CZ 550. Of those my preference would be the Vanguard or Savage. A minimum cartridge for deer, particularly the nice fat ones in Canada, would be most accepted as the 243. A maximum would be one of the several 300 magnums out there. For most, a 308 or 30-06 based cartridge is the way to go. The 243, 260, 7mm-08, and 308 from the 308's side, and the 25-06, 270, 280, and 30-06 from the 30-06's side. I'm a fan of the 25-06, 280, and 30-06.

For a scope on the rifle, a magnification of 2-7x32 seems to be ideal for the places you describe of hunting. A nice, low 2-4 power for up close hunting, and 4-7 for those 200+ yard shots. If budget doesn't allow, don't buy a cheapo. This doesn't mean you can't get a decent scope for $100, but it does mean don't get a $40 Wal-Mart scope. Leupold, Nikon, and Cabela's scopes are a few of my favorites.

Hmmmm, general hunting advice.

Should be lots of them strutting around the Pentagon...

;)



.308 or 30-06 you should be able to find everywhere and they'll handle any deer you meet if you do your part. You don't need a magnum caliber. None of us do. Sure, we may want one, but we don't need one.

Leupold makes good optics and the VX-1 series is very good for the money. I've got a VX 1 2-7 by 33mm on my .375 H&H magnum and it's been a great scope and given me no troubles at all.

Hello C7

As a fellow hunter from Ontario I perhaps can help as well. Assuming you've completed your hunter safety course and have a fac to purchase your next step is to determine just what you plan to hunt and where. If it's strictly deer in bush I would go with a good shotgun loaded with slugs or ssg. This gives you a dual purpose gun you can hunt deer or birds( ducks, geese or turkey). You can also practice with it until your heart is content on the trap and skeet ranges. Unfortunately we don't have the same hunting guidelines as our American friends and can only hunt with calibers over 270 during the appropriate big game seasons. No such thing here hunting ground hogs with a 7mm just for practice. As you'd expect you will only get a couple of weeks of use from an 06 or 7mm or any other big game cartridge for that matter.
Should you decide to hunt game in which the shotgun isn't satisfactory, you can buy buy buy like the rest of us.
Try Lebarons. They have good prices and are close to home

hey c7, if you know who you'll be hunting with i would sugest talking to them to see what they use and maybe handle/shoot theirs to give you an idea on whether or not that gun/caliber is for you. if you look at an old military surpless rifle remember to check the regulations on bullet type requirements where you will be hunting. most places would forbid using military non expanding bullet type ammo (FMJ). i think the savage would be hard for you to beat being on a budget and all.

Lots of cheap but reliable older military guns around. The .303 British can still be found every where under 200$. The old .303 still gets the job done up to moose. It isn't fancy but reliable as ****. It is all my dad ever used and he never went a season without a moose. He did have a beautiful Parker Hale sporter also in .303 but it got stolen and he never replaced it.

Well I wrote a legthy reply thanking all of you guys on your sound advice and some follow up questions but then got stuck with a nightmareish virus sort of thing with my computer. So two hours and a whole lot of wasted effort I'm again thanking you guys. Since its past midnight I'll keep it short.

I've decided on looking for a 30-06 Remington 700 SPS, or more likely a "Hunter" series Savage in the same calibre. I have one question about Stevens 200's. Why are they so cheap? They look and are described exactly like many rifles that Savage produce. And I've noticed that many of the rifles I've looked at are either latch or detachable mag, which is prefered by most?

Other than that I'm most likely going to get a Leupold Mk1 low power scope. I'm not sure what to look for when it comes down to lens size however. Whats the difference between a 33mm lens and a 40?

If possible - (I have no clue if theres a dealer that sells old military rifles in my area) - I'd like to get a WW2-era rifle, possibly a K98 or Springfeild. Both for costs and cause I'm a fan of history in general and having one would be cool.

In response to kuntao yea I actually was planning on buying from Lebaron, its the only local place I know which sells guns, the rest I've heard of are online. And no I haven't gotten my credentials yet, although I'll be getting them ASAP.

My understanding on the Steven's is it IS the same rifle as Savage with the exception of no accutrigger and a cheaper stock. Action and barrel are the same.
I own Leupold's in 2X7X33 and 3X9X40, they seem to function the same in a hunting situation for me. I do think the 40 gathers a bit more light and I do like the looks of a 40 on a hunting rifle better, but in all practicability there is not enough difference hunting to worry about IMHO.

The Steven 200 also has a blind magazine, and they're a pain as you have to load each cartridge one by one and unload by cycling them though the chamber. The detachable magazine is the most convenient, but the hinged floor plate magazines are more reliable. You can't lose it and the feed lips are part of the action and next to impossible to damage. You've probably seen a bad C7 magazine ( Canadian M-16).

Leupolds are good scopes, guaranteed for life. I've got a couple, a straight 4X and an old straight 8X. They have more eye relief than most makes, which can save you for that circular cut on the brow.

The .30-06 is a good choice, particularly since you're less than a tank of gas from moose country

Bye
Jack

You are picking a real nice gun and cartridge. No mistake there. I was going to suggest looking at an NEF single shot in .308 or 30.06. But, if you can afford the gun you mentioned it will be much better.

lol to say I've come across some bad C7 mags is an understatement. Yea I know exactly what you mean.

Another thread got me interested in something else aswell. Do I go for a model with a hardwood or synthetic stock? Or is it just the cheap synthetic stocks that people dislike.

I've decided on looking for a 30-06 Remington 700 SPS, or more likely a "Hunter" series Savage in the same calibre. I have one question about Stevens 200's. Why are they so cheap? They look and are described exactly like many rifles that Savage produce. And I've noticed that many of the rifles I've looked at are either latch or detachable mag, which is prefered by most?

Whats the difference between a 33mm lens and a 40?


The 30-06 is an excellent caliber choice. The 700 SPS or a Savage would be great rifles. The Stevens 200 is basically a stripped down Savage 110. Cheaper stock, no accutrigger, and that's about it. Cheap, and a bit on the ugly side, but still very good as far as function and accuracy goes.

The 33 and 40mm just tell you how wide the lens is. Generally, wider is accepted as brighter, and has a wider field of view. This comes with a price though, and a 33mm would work fine.

Also, the larger the lens, the higher it must be mounted on the rifle. Too high and you can't get a good "cheek-weld" with face and stock.

If your cheek and the stock comb aren't together the recoil will smack the stock into your chin or cheek bone. I had that problem with a poorly sporterized .303 lee Enfield. I had to glue a piece of wood to the stock comb to bring it up. Hurt like **** to shoot before that.

C7

If you plan to hunt this year you'd better get it in gear. Getting your PAL and finding a hunter training course to enlist in could take you right into the fall. Once you decide what to buy as far as rifle and scope you'll likely require work done by a competent gunsmith. They're busy this time of year.
Goodluck

C7

If you plan to hunt this year you'd better get it in gear. Getting your PAL and finding a hunter training course to enlist in could take you right into the fall. Once you decide what to buy as far as rifle and scope you'll likely require work done by a competent gunsmith. They're busy this time of year.
Goodluck

Thanks, yea I'm already slotted for the hunter course and the CFSC exam prep. I'm areally not sure if I need to wait for the course. I might risk it and go for the exam without the prep. Reason for that is cause although there are 6 intructors in the area, earliest course is on Sept 14th... More than likely I won't be heading out this year.

Remington 700's are a great gun but for someone with limited funds...I think the Savage, CZ or maybe Tikka would fit your needs. All are fairly inexpensive and great shooters. Since you're an inexperinced shooter, get something that's a moderate recoiler. If you got something like a 300 mag, I think you'd become recoil shy and develop a flinch. My votes would be something like 243 Win, 260 Rem, 7-08 Rem, 25-06, 270 Win, 280 Rem, etc.

Remington 700's are a great gun but for someone with limited funds...I think the Savage, CZ or maybe Tikka would fit your needs. All are fairly inexpensive and great shooters. Since you're an inexperinced shooter, get something that's a moderate recoiler. If you got something like a 300 mag, I think you'd become recoil shy and develop a flinch. My votes would be something like 243 Win, 260 Rem, 7-08 Rem, 25-06, 270 Win, 280 Rem, etc.
I haven`t seen any of the CZs or Tikkas cheaper than the 700SPS and only the cheapest, butt ugly Savages are cheaper by more than $20-$40 here in the general vacinity of Syracuse, ofcourse the market could be different any where else. It`s just that I keep looking for these cheap Savages with an Accu Trigger that are such phenomenal shooters and I can`t find one.

Up here, Lebarons is selling Savages for much less than Tikkas, depending on which model up and around 200 bucks.

Savages have come a long way in terms of accuracy over the last few years. I only have one one and it is a great and accurate little rifle . Finding the right brand and bullet that works best for your particular rifle is a must but many part time hunters don't bother to try different ammo to see what shoots best for them.
I grew up with a winchester cooey 22 bolt rifle and I still have it today. It will still put Winchester power points into a quarter at 50 paces but it spreads Remington yellow jackets over a 3'' area at the same distance. Its not much better with CCI stingers. It dosen't like the hyper velocity loads.
The same goes for center fire rifles. Some rifles are like little kids. There just **** picky about what you feed them.