Well I can't believe I did it. I have always wanted to .264 win mag for some reason and finally I have one. I bought a brand new stainless steel model 700 cdl. Boy is it a beautiful rifle and very well figured piece of walnut sure makes that stainless steel shine. I have always been a fan of CRF rifles but this one sure makes you wonder. The rifle is light so it will be a great mountain rifle to carry around all day long. And hopefully it shoots as great as it looks.

Do any of you guys have some good data for this round. What would you guys suggest for a bullet weight and loading.The rifle has a 26" barrel.

john barsness did an article in either rifle or handloader within the last year or so on the .264 with modern powders. it was a very good article and put some good perspective on the .264.
if it were me i'd probably shoot the 130gr barnes tsx or one of the partitions.

i am loading my .264s with IMR 7828. my Sendero does not like hot loads, in fact none of the 264's i have loaded for would take max. loads without scary signs of pressure. but i load 60.0 grains of 7828 under a 140 grain bullet. this is a conservitive load, but my Sendero has a very tight chamber and short throat, so this load will show pressure signs on a hot day.

the .264 is a picky rifle to load for, and you will have to let the rifle decide where it's maximum is instead of the loading manual.

monty

I built one back in the late 70's for a sheep hunt. Started with a Winchester barreled action, restocked it with a beautiful piece of french walnut, had it Armaloyed for Alaska weather, 2 by 7 Leupold scope in Leupold bases and rings. Shot the 140 grainer into a nice inch hole.

Three weeks before my sheep hunt a fella offered me so much money that it went home with him. I ended up taking a nice 35 inch Dahl Ram at just over 600 yards with a Ruger 30-06. Boy was I wishing I hadn't sold that 264.

Like Monty said the rifle will decide which bullet and which powder is best. H1000 and 7828 are two excellent powders.

I have one of the SS CDL's in 264 on layaway. Hope to have it in a couple of months. Please let us know how your CDL load development goes, as I'd like to have the benefit of your experience. I've already got some RL-25 to try for loadsing the 264 - taking a hint from the article from Handloader. Hoping to get speeds over 3100 for 140's.

I've used 7828 in my 6.5 Rem Mag, but found it a dirty power and went with H4831. I'm able to get 3000 fps with 140's in my 6.5 RM ( Montanna action ) which accepts AOL's of 3.00 inches

Thanks guys for your direction. Now I have to figure out what type of bullets to try. Boy this is going to be hard. Hopefully I can just get 6-10 bullets of each type to try before I have to buy a whole box, especially since they are a little harder to get rid of than a .30 caliber.

Well I will keep you guys posted on how the rifle does for accuracy and which round I finally decide to go with.

Now before that is all done I need to decide what scope is going to go on it.

To many DECISIONS!

Not to jump off the subject, but I just bought a Rem. 700 CDL Boone&Crocket limited edition, mine is a 7mm-08, beautiful rifle, laminated(brown) stock with ebony cap 24" fluted matte blue barrel and action. Very fine rifle, hope you enjoy yours, good luck.......

My custom 1917 enfield likes 68grs of retumbo or 68.4 grs. of Ramshot magnum behind the 140gr sierra gameking for hunting or the 142gr.Matchking for all else. Carefull tho as this is a maximum load in my rifle. Half inch groups are the norm in my rifle for this load.

jj, what twist do you have in your barrel? my Sendero (1in9) will shoot the 140 gr SMK into 2" at 500 meters, but at the same distance will not reliably hit 10" with the 142 gr SMK.

i chalk this up to a slightly slow twist for the longer 142 SMK and the rifle's preference. with the .264s appetite for barrels, i stopped load development with first decent load. and this was that load.

monty

Monty:

I had a similar problem with the Sierra 142 in my 6.5 Rem Mag. The 140 MK Sierra is more accurate than the 142 in both of the 6.5RM guns that I have and since then I haven't done any more loading of the 142. In my reading, it seems that a 1 in 9 twist should be OK with the 142. I never did experiments with bullet jump to see if that would cure the problem. Seems to me that this is going to be next step when I get to developing loads for the 6.5 again. In the 6.5 RM, I've tried H4831 and IMR 7828. The H4831 load is more consistent and cleaner burning and is my current standard. The only plus for 7828 was slightly better speeds, but not enough for me to drop the H4831.

yea, the 6.5RM has a smaller case probably more suited to 4831. the .264 will show a bigger velocity difference between 4831 and 7828.

the Hodgon #27 manual shows 3115 fps with max dose of 7828, and 2875 fps with max charge of 4831. both with 140 gr bullets.

i am getting 3050 fps with a load 5.0 gr. below max. with the 7828. i could bump that up, but i dunno if i need to, and doubt i could get the accuracy i am getting now.

as an aside, i have talked to some guys that tell me there is a sweet spot of 2950 fps that the 142 gr SMK like to run at, and another at 3150 fps if your gun can get there. i doubt i can get 3150 in my gun with the tight chamber and short throat, but YMMV.

monty

The Febuary 2005 No. 233 Handloader Ammunition Reloading Journal page 34 artical ( New Powders in the .264 Winchester Magunum) by John Barsness is the referance I used for loading my 264 Winchester.

264 Winchester Magnum, Winchester M70 Classic Super Grade 26" barrel

125 grain Nosler Partition seated to 3.27" COL
Winchester brass, 2.49" trim
CCI 250 primers
59 grains IMR4831 START
65 grains IMR4831 MAXIMUM 3390 fps

130 grain Nosler Accubond seated to 3.30" COL
Winchester brass, 2.49" trim
CCI 250 primers
54 grains IMR4350 START
60 grains IMR4350 MAXIMUM 3330 fps

140 grain Speer HotCor seated to 3.34" COL
Winchester brass, 2.49" trim
CCI 250 primers
58 grains IMR4831 START
64 grains IMR4831 MAXIMUM 3225 fps

jackfish:

Just ran your 140 max load thru Quickload. The predicted speed is 3182, which is close to your #. However, the predicted pressure(72ksi) is over the SAMII max of 62ksi.

Are you showing any pressure signs from this load. I have been thinking that the IMR4831 powder is a little fast burning for the 264 WM or even for the 6.5 RM.

jac673,

He's running Winchester brass. It's generally lighter and has more powder room than other brands, which lowers the pressure from a given charge. A thing to keep in mind with QuickLOAD is it's default case capacities are almost always the minimum possible water capacity. This is to cause errors to be on the low side, pressure-wise, and can make a significant difference in peak pressure results.

we all use Winchester brass. it's the only brand available for the .246 as far as i know.

and the Hodgen's #27 (admittedly conservitive) lists 54.5 grains of IMR 4831 as maximum with 140 gr bullet.

Hornady #7 lists 58.8 gr IMR 4831 as max with 140 gr. bullet

Nosler #4 lists 55.0 gr IMR 4831 as max with 140 gr bullet

Sierra edition V lists 60.8 gr of IMR 4831 as max with 140 gr bullet

this puts up a red flag...

monty

So from the info that I am receiving here I should really just start at the very low end of the powder spectrum and work my way up. Even though this cartridge can be hot rodded, I don't think I will do that with this gun. I think I am going to go with the 140 grain bullet. Probably the Hornady or Swift but we will just see what the gun likes to digest.

YES!! start low and ease into the hotter loads. pressures can rise very quickly in the .264

jackfish's 4831 starting load is over the maximum load in two of the manuals i have, so start lower than that...

and the 140 gr bullet is what i gravitate to also. sometimes the Hornady 160 gr round nose is a good performer, but it sure makes an ugly cartridge. it does perform well on game, tho.

monty

YES!! start low and ease into the hotter loads. pressures can rise very quickly in the .264

jackfish's 4831 starting load is over the maximum load in two of the manuals i have, so start lower than that...

and the 140 gr bullet is what i gravitate to also. sometimes the Hornady 160 gr round nose is a good performer, but it sure makes an ugly cartridge. it does perform well on game, tho.

monty
It just goes to show you have to be careful with loads posted on the Internet and check them against other sources. I worked up those loads from vintage data (1975) and with vintage lots of powder (1985). I should have checked my notes better. I guess I need to see what the loads would be with current lots of propellents. I apologize.

Those as listed with the vintage powders are good loads in my rifle.

Well I bought a box of 140 gr Barnes Triple shocks and a Box of Swift Scirocco's to try going to go with the H4831 powder for now. I don't think I need to go crazy yet trying to build a 3000 fps load quite yet. I really don't want to erode the barrell, I plan to keep this rifle in really good shape. I will let you guys know how everything turns out and what load gave me the best groupings. Thanks for all your guys help

Found with most of my centerfire rifles that the best accuracy usually came with loads below the max listed in manuals, anyway. Easier on the rifle and shoulder! :p

Watch your bullet standoff with the Barnes bullets, as they recommend a .050" to begin. Pressures can jump quickly with them if seated too close to the rifling. Speaking from personal experience with the 6.5-06 and other 6.5 caliber chamberings.

Well I change my mind about the Barnes bullets, took them back to the shop. I am going to try the 140 grain Berger bullets and see how they shoot. The Barnes bulltes are just to finicky to really get dialed in I think remembered I had the same problem with my .338 with to much pressure and proper spacing all the time. My gunsmith swears by these Berger bullets so we will see how they work.

Sorry I didn't get back for a while. Busy farming. My enfield has a 28 in krieger with a 1-8 twist. Also have one with a 30in ;1.25 bull barrel and it will shoot very good groups also.

[I have a 264 magnum also, I bought it in 1975 after reading an article by Dan Flores in a magazine called handloaders digest. My rifle is a pre 64 winchester model 70 with a 26" stainless steel barrel, it has an old redfield 6 power wideview scope. I have tried a couple of bullets in the rifle, I took it on my first hunt to Nevada in 1983 and shot a nice buck with it, I was using a sierra 120 grain bullet with 62 grains of H-4831, it did alot of damage to the deer so I switched to 125 grain nosler partitions. I found some Norma MRP powder and used 64 grains of it with the noslers, I made about the longest shot that I have ever taken at an animal with tht rifle, I shot another Nevada mule deer at an estimated 400 plus yards, he dropped like he was struck by lightning, very little meat damage. My rifle has a tight chamber and reaches maximum pressures a few grains less than most loading manuals show. An example is the 120 grain sierra load mentioned above, most loading manuals show 64 to 65 grains as a max load, 62.5 grains in my rifle will result in cratered primers. As far as accuracy goes, my best groups are about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches.

Fnmauser: Swift makes a great bullet for the 264, it been out for about a year or so, its a 130 grainer with a ballistic coefficient of 570. I am told that it can be pushed safely to 3200 fps, this would be a great antelope and long range mule deer load. The only reason that I have not tried this bullet is because I am going to retire my 264, at least for now.

I used to use 62.5 gr. of h4831 in my 264's with 140 gr bullets. and had good results but found that the retumbo filled the cases better with very good accuracy. But the advice is good to start low and work your way up. My retumbo load averages around 3150 on my chrono.

jackfish:

Just ran your 140 max load thru Quickload. The predicted speed is 3182, which is close to your #. However, the predicted pressure(72ksi) is over the SAMII max of 62ksi.

Are you showing any pressure signs from this load. I have been thinking that the IMR4831 powder is a little fast burning for the 264 WM or even for the 6.5 RM.

Do me a big favor run my load on your program and see what I am getting FPS wise with RL22 68.0 grains 100 gr bullet
26" barrel in 264 mag.
also I have a 6.5 rem mag I use 60.0 grs. of 3100 with 100 gr bullet for 3700 FPS. very accurate.
Another question do you know if you can buy the 2 dia. bullets that winchester put in their factory loads for 264 mag?

Okie:

Here's some results:

For the 264 WM: 100 gr Sierra(1710) , 26" barrel, 3.34 AOL, 68 gr of Rl-22 - predicted velocity is 3370 fps. The pressure 'red lines' at 73 gr for 3618 fps. However, QuickLoad has underpredicted speed and hence pressure for my 6.5 RM. I would think that the predicts for the 264 will go the same way. So be careful with these predicts. I would suggest that you stay with published data.

For the 6.5 RM: 100 gr Sierra(1710), 26" barrel, 2.806 AOL, 60 gr of XMR3100 - predicted velocity is 3305. The pressure 'red-lines' at 63 gr for 3481 fps. Again, be careful with these as my 6.5 RM beat the predicts for speed and hence pressure is higher than predicted.

On your question about the dual diameter 140 gr bullets that are factory loaded - I don't know if they can be bought as components. I've got some Remington bulk 140's, but I've never checked if they are of the dual diameter design.

Hope this helps

Jack673,

Sounds like you may be fairly new to QuickLOAD? I have been using it since the first available version and found a couple of things you need to do to get better results:

First, you need to be aware that cartridges developing high enough pressure to stick their cases to the chamber wall and stretch the head back (generally, those that run about 30,000 PSI peak pressure and up) achieve this expanded volume before the powder burn reaches peak pressure. Thus, the burn's effective powder volume that interacts with the charge to determine peak pressure is this expanded case volume. It is not the sized case volume, which is the QuickLOAD deffault. The QuickLOAD default is usually a minimum sized case volume because Hartmut has no way to know how tight your actual chamber is or what pressure you will load to? This way you err on the side of too little powder rather than too much, and accuracy for loads too light to stretch the brass is better. You need to try to correct it for accurate predictions. It is not uncommon for a correction to result in 10% or more reduction in peak pressure and to produce an associated loss in velocity.

To correct for this, before you decap or resize it, take a case that was fired in the actual chamber of the gun you are calculating for. Weigh it empty. Fill it with water carefully until the water is exactly level with case mouth (no meniscus, positive or negative). Tap it to be sure no air bubbles are trapped inside. Make sure no water drops got on the outside. Weigh it again. Enter the weight difference into the Maximum Case Overflow Capacity window, as shown below. (To be slightly more exact, I have attached a zipped Excel file at the bottom of this post that you may download. It's result compensates for the change in water density with temperature to give you a volume the water weight would have provided if the water had an ideal density of 1.0000.)

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/8489/casecapacityentryln1.png

The other thing you need to do for the most accurate predictions is to enter your bore dimensions. This is not as significant as case volume, but it will often refines predictions a bit. The image below shows the steps involved in getting the entry window up.

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/8333/boreconfiguringko3.png

Hope this helps.

[QUOTE=jac673]Okie:

Here's some results:

For the 264 WM: 100 gr Sierra(1710) , 26" barrel, 3.34 AOL, 68 gr of Rl-22 - predicted velocity is 3370 fps. The pressure 'red lines' at 73 gr for 3618 fps. However, QuickLoad has underpredicted speed and hence pressure for my 6.5 RM. I would think that the predicts for the 264 will go the same way. So be careful with these predicts. I would suggest that you stay with published data.

For the 6.5 RM: 100 gr Sierra(1710), 26" barrel, 2.806 AOL, 60 gr of XMR3100 - predicted velocity is 3305. The pressure 'red-lines' at 63 gr for 3481 fps. Again, be careful with these as my 6.5 RM beat the predicts for speed and hence pressure is higher than predicted.

On your question about the dual diameter 140 gr bullets that are factory loaded - I don't know if they can be bought as components. I've got some Remington bulk 140's, but I've never checked if they are of the dual diameter design.

Hope this helps[/Quote




What velocity will I get with my Model 70 270WSM with a 24 inch barrel using a barnes 130 gr xlc bullet behind 67 grains of RL 19 powder?

Uncle Nick:

Thanks a bunch for your suggestions. So far I've only used QuickLoad with defaults for the things that you pointed out.

Your post is outstanding and I really appreciate it.

Hopefully, I can get as good as you in using this tool.

Fast Freddy:

The load you asked about( 130 XLC & 67 gr of RL-19 ) shows to be overpressure. The max load I get ( with the program defaults, as indicated by Uncle Nick ) is 62 gr of Rl-19 for 3191 fps. The 67 gr load predict is 3432 fps, but is way over pressure.

Be careful!

Fast Freddy:

The load you asked about( 130 XLC & 67 gr of RL-19 ) shows to be overpressure. The max load I get ( with the program defaults, as indicated by Uncle Nick ) is 62 gr of Rl-19 for 3191 fps. The 67 gr load predict is 3432 fps, but is way over pressure.

Be careful!


Thanks for your assistance, I fired three rounds of with that load in my rifle and it seemed to be ok, the cases extracted with ease, I did not have a decent micromiter at the time so I will try one round and measure the expansion. In my rifle the factory cases expand .0006 after being fiired, any load that expands more than that I won't use, Barrnes sent me the loading data, 64 gr is the starting load and 68.5 is maximum velocity is 3385.