In another thread the questions of ethical loads for whitetail were brought up and a discussion was started. pruhdlr had posed some good questions about bullets of choice in the 44 mag. As usual, I would like to see some real world results. First hand knowledge of some particular handgun loads on whitetailed deer or other game. Only your 1st hand knowledge will count. I have some but not a lot but I will be glad to share it all. I probably already have but I spend a lot of time on the handgunhunter web site in the past and most of my accounts are probably there.

I would particlar like to here of folks results with the store bought offerings.

I would like to start by saying that we have beat this horse to death with the levergun in 44 mag. Barrel length of the pistol is a factor here and velosity is very important as is the exact bullet used. Pics would be nice also.

Now who has drilled a hole in a soft lead round and shot a whitetail. Come on.

I have killed a very few deer with handguns. In every case it was a "target of opportunity" type situation and I used what was at hand.

As is always the case, bullet placement trumps power every time. Deer just aren't that hard to kill with a properly placed bullet.

It gets tiresome when folks insinuate someone is less than ethical because they aren't using the "proper cartridge".

I have killed 3 mule deer with a .44 Mag SA revolver.

2 point @ ~ 40'
3 point @ ~30 yards
2 point @ ~ 15 yards

I used to live and hunt in an area that was heavily forested (north central WA Cascades) and open areas were usually full of alder/vine maple/etc. So. ranges were close in as one has to find a trail, hide, sit down, listen and wait for an opportunity.

One shot was sufficient for all three. Two were knocked right over and one trotted off and I found him about 60 yards away.

I used my own load. My notes show my hunting load was 24 gr of H110 under a 240 gr SJHP. This was, by far, my most accurate heavy load in my 7 1/2" Virginian Dragoon.

As is always the case, bullet placement trumps power every time. Deer just aren't that hard to kill with a properly placed bullet.

It gets tiresome when folks insinuate someone is less than ethical because they aren't using the "proper cartridge".

I have to disagree somewhat. Through my employment I've shot a good number of deer that needed to be put down due to injury. Mostly 9mm and 40 S & W with head shots. Relatively few went quickly and I even had one I shot in the head with a 9mm, jump up and run about 30 yards. The 9mm was with 147 grn and the 40 with 180 grns HPs.

I've killed a pile with both the 44 mag and the 41 mag. I like a hard cast kieth style bullet at 1250 fps and above. I don't find much use of pushing any bullet past 1350 fps as I can't tell any difference in killing power.

As for bullets your in the right place. If you don't cast yourself look at Marshall's bullets for the 44 in any weight from 250 grains up. My favorite for the 44 was a Kieth gas check bullet weighing 255 grains. This worked for deer and black bear out as far as I could hit them.

I have to disagree somewhat. Through my employment I've shot a good number of deer that needed to be put down due to injury. Mostly 9mm and 40 S & W with head shots. Relatively few went quickly and I even had one I shot in the head with a 9mm, jump up and run about 30 yards. The 9mm was with 147 grn and the 40 with 180 grns HPs.

In my opinion, you make my point. The goody in a deer's head is a tiny spot. The deer didn't linger because of the cartridge, they did so because of poor shot placement.

What handgun was used Bob? What barrel length?

I have put many a full grown beef cattle down with head shots from a .22lr. I agree with kenk, it isnt the power of the gun, its the placemant of the bullet.

What handgun was used Bob? What barrel length? I started out with an old five screw Smith 29 with a 6.5 inch bbl. Added a Ruger blackhawk in 41 mag with the 7.5 inch barrel. Used a Smith 4 inch 57 for a carry in the woods gun. This 41 killed deer out to 75 yards with no problems shooting a 210 grain Kieth cast bullet at 1250 fps.

When I finally gave up the Smith 29 I moved on to a Ruger Super Redhawk with a 7.5 inch barrel and a 5.5 inch Redhawk. The longest kill I made was a black bear at just over 200 yards. I hit it twice as it was rolling down the hillside after the initial behind the shoulders shot.

Here's the last two hunting revolvers I shot. Both have moved on to younger hunters with better eyes. The Aimpoint was not used for big game hunting as it's illegal here in Idaho.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q172/faucettb/Preditor%20masters/RugerSRH.jpg

Here's the 5.5 inch Redhawk.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q172/faucettb/Preditor%20masters/redhawk5.jpg

In my opinion, you make my point. The goody in a deer's head is a tiny spot. The deer didn't linger because of the cartridge, they did so because of poor shot placement.

I dunno....they all died...just not right away. If I remember correctly, I had very few that required only one shot (one I remember specifically, a doe I shot as she was looking at me and took her between the eyes). Most kicked around for several mins and required a follow up shot to the head and even then still kicked around. I don't know how much better shot placement you can get. :confused:

I have put many a full grown beef cattle down with head shots from a .22lr. I agree with kenk, it isnt the power of the gun, its the placemant of the bullet.


Sure but that only goes so far. I grew up on a farm and slaughtered cattle and hogs with a 22 lr to the head. I think we all can pretty much can say anything that walks can be killed with just about any firearm but what actually determines what's adequate and whats not? IMO, its the round that can do it reliably with reasonable shot placement. I've just never got that reliablilty with deer and the 9mm and 40 S & W. And trust me, these were with good shot placement.

This is probably my most accurate "factory" 44 magnum but I had to give it a good working over to be able to get the kind of accuracy I was looking for....
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/RugerHunter.jpg


A

Chief, I used the Beartooth 280gr. WFNGC in a Super Blackhawk .44 mag.

Deer ran about 30 yards and tipped over dead. One shoulder, one lung, and liver cut almost in two. Works great! :D

Chief(and all), Having been a guide in Maine for 18+ years,I have killed, and seen sports kill, quite a few deer(and moose and black bear) with a .44mag pistol.


The vast majority of the loads were handloads. Probably 50% of those were hard cast.

I personally have killed 5 deer with my Desert Eagle,shooting the origional Black Talon(250gr). That bullet always performed great. Most center of chest shots(hits) were pass throughs. One,on a 240#(field dressed) deer,cut a rib going in and shattered the off side shoulder.

The other deer that I killed with a .44mag were with my Super Blackhawk shooting handloads. All of these deer were within 40yds. Standing broadside. This,using hardcast or 300gr XTP's.

The only really bad performance that I witnessed by a bullet was from a 14" T/C and a store bought 180gr HP. It over expanded terribly.

The very best performance was from hardcast pushed as fast as they would go. Next best was from the Hornady(factory) 300gr. XTP's. Have seen them hammer bear and moose.

The sports that took bear and moose with a .44 mag pistol were shots of 30yds max. Some as close as 10.

The fartherest that I saw a moose go was 70yds,the bear were less than that. Shot placement was the key.

I demended that my sports shoot their weapons prior to the hunt. Not from bench and bag,but rested over a stump or held against a tree. They all shot at a 6" white pie plate.

Overkill ??? No such thing. Please use enough gun/load. ---pruhdlr

Sounds like I need to print my 290 gr LFN GC BTB in my SBH. Thanks guys. That loose stock should break now. I do need some new stocks.

In another thread the questions of ethical loads for whitetail were brought up .

I don't know what an "ethical" load is. I do feel I know what an ethical hunter is.

The loads you will find useful will vary according to your hunting style and your shooting ability. I have hunted with handguns frequently over the past 20 or so years, and for me handgun hunting means "archery hunting with a handgun". Range has never exceeded 35-40 yards, because that's as far as I feel comfortable shooting at a deer. I have used full-power .44 magnum ammo -- it is 'way more than I need. I have used .45 ACP -- it is fine if ranges are kept to 25 yards or so, and you place your shots well. Currently, I favor either my Uberti Flat Top Target .45 Colt with a 255 gr. SWC at approx. 900 fps, or my 4" S&W 29-2 with a 240 gr. lead SWCHP moving out at a faily leisurely 1175 fps.

I have no doubt you could eithically kill a deer with a .38 Special +P -- or even a .22, for that matter -- if you get close enough and place the shot properly.

pisgah, "archery hunting with a handgun"
That's great,gotta remember that one. It pretty much sez it all. Same stealth,same camo,same distance.

Lots of people try to make a pistol a rifle. You hear of the "long" shots. Most of that is BS....BUT....it gives some people a reason to get one better on the next person.
I suspect that we all have been tempted to take the shot that is "just a little" out of bounds. I know I have. It was on a would be B&C deer,with my 7.5" SuperBlackhawk,at 150yds. I let him walk only to be killed later on in the year by my best friend.

Oh well,thats huntin'. Especially pistol hunting.---pruhdlr

pisgah
You got it right! Shoot only to where you know you can kill clean! My 454 Casull is capable of killing deer out to 150-175 yds! Do I shoot that far nope cause I'm not that good! Sure I might hit one right at that range-might isn't good enough! In fact I'm going out tonight to see if my new load is up to getting me out to 100 yds tonight! If it is then that will be my new limit! If they are in 4-6" group that is! :D

Kilt a few deer w/a 44 10.5" SBH. Longest at 155 LONG paces, short at 40 yards. All w/255 Thompson GC and 24 gr 4227. The long shot took a second shot. Iron sights.

Don

If we keep the conversation to the 44 mag, I feel the only "ethical loads" are at least 240 grain bullets and up and all full power loads. Why? Because I will take a deer at 75 yards with a 44 mag using my 7.5 inch blackhawk or 7.5 inch redhawk (haven't tried the new 629, but the season is right around the corner!). If you bowhunt with a handgun, 900 fps with a 240 grain boolit is ethical. Furthermore, pisgah becomes even more ethical when he says that 35-40 yards is as far as he feels comfortable shooting. I can think of a few people who I have hunted with (in the past not future for that very reason) that I wish would take that advice. As for my experience-I took my first deer with the Barnes X bullet. At that time I was too influenced by marketing and thought "hey for a buck a bullet, it must be good." What a joke. 44 caliber hole in. 44 caliber hole out. Luckily I practice often and the shot hit the heart. Yeah, I got the deer but it was thanks to shot placement not a boutique bullet. Usually when using the 44 mag, I hunt with the Remington 240 grain Semi Jacketed hollow point over 25 grains of H110. I also load my friend's hunting ammo which is that bullet over 24 grains of H110 (He has a Colt Anaconda that I love and I don't want him to abuse it so I reduce the charge to make myself feel better). Between the two of us, I have seen more deer fall to that bullet than any other and if we do our part, the hunt is ethical. Last season, he didn't do his part and gut shot a small buck at about 50 yards. One of the many reasons I like hunting with him is because he didn't write off the deer because of a light blood trail. Three hours later we found the deer still needing the final shot. Interesting point about that gut shot. We recovered the bullet fully expanded in the hind quarter on the opposite side. The bullet had passed through at angle through the guts into hind quarters. I wonder if the extra grain of powder would have caused the bullet to come out the other side making the harvest quicker.
So much for a Quick reply,
Mark

Just to chime in late, I have never owned a .44 Mag, but I have killed deer with a .45 Colt Blackhawk - open sights and barrels of 7 1/2 or 4 5/8. My preferred hunting style is to sit on stand and wait for a calm deer to walk past me. I don't shoot running deer or deer that are clearly already full of adrenaline (they taste awful, IMO).

But a medium-heavy bullet at medium-high speed has never failed me. Both the old 225 Speer JHP and a 255 LSWC have perfect track records with me, when launched at 1000 fps or so. Any deer inside of 100 yards is in deep danger if I can get a decent rest on my knee or something else.

Almost always saw a lurch, short stagger and plop. Never recovered a bullet from either a whitetail or a muley, as they always pass through.

My new Ruger Super Blackhawk with it's 10 1/2" Silhouette barrel will keep all 6-shots inside a 5" circle at 75 yards and will keep all 6-shots inside a 8" circle at 100 yards. I know that with a scope I could do much better. I'll limit myself to around a 75 yards kill range for this year but after I completely rebuild the gun this next spring and add a scope to it, I'll be able to easily double my shooting range...

My favorite and most accurate load is as follows -

CASE: Starline Nickel Plated 44 mag...

PRIMER: CCi-350 Mag. Pistol...

POWDER: Winchester 296 / 24.0 gr...

BULLET: Remington Bulk - 240 gr. JHP...

VELOCITY: 1,710 fps...

An average velocity reading of 1,524 was achieved when gun was new as it had a factory barrel to cylinder gap of .011 but with the gap closed to .002, velocity now averages 1,710 fps....

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/150L.jpg

Now, would not any of the old west shooters loved to have that on his person.