Next year I turn 60, making me an officially old crock.
So where this is heading is..... the young guys at the range seem to be more interested making lots of noice, firing a bunch of rounds, and if they hit the target it's a bonus.
The reloading aspect of this game seems to be to produce lots of rounds that go bang, and if they hit the berm so much the better.
With my large caliber lever actions 45-70 and 405 I like to shoot at 8 inch or 10 steel gongs at 200 yards, the 30-06 lever like wise. Don't hit them every time but I get to analyse each miss and determine what mistake I made.
With the bolt guns and the semiautos, I'm using optical sights so shoot at the 300 yard line, off hand or off the bench again paying attention to each shot fired and analyse each for my errors.
I try to get the these same young guys and some old guys to slow down and hit the target.
I wish I had these other fellas bullet and powder budget.

I admit to using progressives for handgun ammo, got four Dillons for different handgun calibers. I'm lazy and hate changing calibers. I determined the the bullet/powder preferences of each of my handgun calibers, 25 years ago and have not changed. I'm now in the lucky position that I can reload far faster then I can possibly shoot.
All of my rifle calibers are loaded exactly the same way as when I started reloading, one at a time, paying attention to each round, eye balling each bullet prior to loading, checking the powder level in each case, cleaning the primer pocket with a primer pocket uniformer, etc. I know each round is as perfect as I'm capable of producing. Loading rifle ammo on a rogressive, to me, is turning over quality control and safety over to luck.
Don't get me wrong, when I load for rifles I'll load 200 rounds at a time, making that a 'lot'. My days of firing 200 rounds of warmish 45-70 ammo are behind me and may never have been. I don't feel under prividged being able to only load 200 rounds in an evening, for my rifles. What's the advantage of firing 3-400 rounds of ammo shooting at a 30 by 30 gong at 100 yards, as fast as you can load the magazine?
Thanks for the space to ponder.
Jim

Amen, fellow geezer. Young guys are merely bulging bags of "magnosterone." (I made that word up. Hope you like it.) They all claim that they enjoy recoil, aren't fazed by blast and only shoot at deer if they're at least 700 yards away. Always hit 'em right in the eye, too - holding dead on.

Sure.

Geezers no longer think like that. We're more contemplative, more appreciative of the well-placed first shot, and more honest about how little the buck and roar have to do with hitting something.

When we hunt, we move slower by necessity; and dang if game doesn't seem to appear not only closer by but less alarmed, too. We don't need large-bore mangleums to plunk a bullet through our quarry's ribs.

We probably kill fewer things, too. "Dead" is a concept with entirely new and deeply personal traits to geezers; many of our oldest friends having entered that state.

Welcome to the truly Golden Age of geezerdom, Pete.

"What's the advantage of firing 3-400 rounds of ammo shooting at a 30 by 30 gong at 100 yards, as fast as you can load the magazine?"

Having fun I guess.

I hear ya but what the heck they are enjoying themselves, maybe becoming gun lovers like most of us here, and/or future firearm advocates. After that kind of shooting many will hopefully become serious shooters. At least they are enjoying guns not hating them.
It's kinda like driving faster than we should have and a host of other things done as young guys that we may still do to a much smaller extent. My long time friends and I sometimes wonder amongest ourselves how we got this age and didin;t die.
Your out there having fun so are they, even if it;s kinda a pain watching or putting up with em.
Just my thoughts on it I may be wrong.

I do tend to agree with the IQ idea posted below and or guys at a range at least having some gun safety education.

Fellow old-grumpy-geezeer.

Have come to the belief that:
1. Every type of hunting I've done can be done fine with a single shot.
2. Hitting the target is a lot more interresting than missing.
3. A shooter's ability is in inverse proportion to the amount of crap hanging on the gun.
4. Getting 50yards closer is the cure for 99% of a hunter's problems.
5. Ranges should require IQ tests before entry.

Fellow old-grumpy-geezeer.
...
3. A shooter's ability is in inverse proportion to the amount of crap hanging on the gun.
5. Ranges should require IQ tests before entry.

I saw a "kid" [=younger than 30] shooting a 16" AR the other day. I kid U not these are the things he had on his rifle

1. bipod
2. forward grip
3. lazer on left
4. flashlight on right
5. EOtek on front handguard
6. pop-up front and rear sights
7. some crazy stock
8. even crazier front hand guards.
9. Pistol grip w/ palm stop AND swell.
10. Mags held together with a mag-cinch

All this, and he was shooting 50 yards, blasting away.
Wearing of course, the latest digi-cam BDU's, and a sand colored T.

He was bragging up how he spent over 1800 dollars on the rifle and goods, yet his target looked more like a shotgun patterning board.....:rolleyes:
at 50 yards....

all while I slowly "plincked" with my "pappy's thutty-thutty" lever:p

Hitting what I aimed at...consistently....slowly....



He'll learn eventually, well let's hope.

You've got to admit though that sales of all this stuff that goes on the latest whiz bang AR platform is keeping the business's that keep us old geezers shooting going.

It also kinda makes my day when folks dressed like swat team members show up with all that crap and can't hit the broadside of a barn with a couple thousand bucks of stuff. I know my old 1979 Ruger #1 goes home chuckling everytime with those nice 7/8 inch ten shot groups.

Just keep in mind next time your at the range that young fella's money in the pocket of gun makers, bullet suppliers, scope makers, laser producers, and more is helping those folks keep prices down for us old fogies.

HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As I sat on the bench, hitting the bull with my $125 savage 340 bolt, one shot at a time, I thought, "look at these guys, who are they trying to impress...or do they really THINK that is shooting"????

Two of the old Crocks I hang out with are into class three weapons. One has a six by six to haul his M2 to the range, he says it sets the mood for the afternoon. Of course he gets the young bucks to unload the Ma Duece from the cargo deck.
My other buddy hauls his M-1917 in his pickup.
If you're going to shoot a bunch, don't mess around get the real thing.
I love to watch the 'Rambos' blaze away with thier 'mouse' guns and while they are loading mags, I'll flatten the gong and stand with the Winchester 1886 with 445 grain cast slugs.
It sort of puts things into perspective. They unload four or five 20 round mags and my one lead slug knocks the gong down.
Since I'm the senior, they get to go reset the gong and stand.
The privilidges of senority.
Jim

Don't forget all that good lead you can dig out of the backstop after the young fellows are done blasting. :D

Bye
Jack

Today was the "belt-feed" monthly shoot at our range. A dozen or so guys haul out their tripod mounted blasters and stir up the backstop dirt for the afternoon. There were 4 separate instructional classes being held in various buildings nearby. Every breaktime, people were running out and lining up to watch. 108 degrees in the shade today and they didn't have any shade to stand in.

Guess it must be entertaining to most folks! :D

Additionally, I'm afraid if folks had to pass a safety test before shooting on our range, more than half would never be allowed to shoot. We insist they READ the posted range rules prior to signing in, but then it's up to the Range Officers and fellow shooters to keep muzzles downrange when the line is hot and to keep people from handling firearms during the ceasefire when folks are downrange changing targets.

I see some others as have been described. Setting at the bench with their rifles on a bi-pod and shooting 30 shots in a continuous stream. They seem to be having fun and are safe in their range practices so who am I to say it seems crazy to squirt those quarters out at one per second!

My father and I have been know to shoot our pistol caliber lever guns just as fast as we can work the levers at clay birds on the 25 yard line. It is great fun!

Years ago we used to shoot in south San Antonio at “A Place to Shoot.” This range had a pistol bay with banks of five steel rabbits and overhead ropes to raise them. On quiet days my wife would load up three .22 lr pump guns and her Marlin Model 39. She would keep me trotting up and down the line pulling ropes to raise those bunnies. She had lots of fun and I got a little exercise. I can still hear the clang of those bunnies falling after all these years.
Another time we were shooting off the bench and I was checking targets through the scope. We had been shooting awhile and I checked my wife’s target to see if she needed a new one. There were no holes in her target. Since she can shoot much better than I can I asked: “what are you shooting at?”
My wife, a little red faced, replied: “The flowers.”
She was shooting the heads off the dandelions and daisies. The girl knows how to have fun and I gues that’s what it is all about.

Next year I turn 60, making me an officially old crock.
Jim

To quote today's range officer at the club at which I practiced trap and skeet "Male Bovine Excrement". I consider the "Old Crock" age to be somewhat over 80

Unlike the apparent orientation that I perceive most of the posters here to have, I am primarily a shotgun competitor and no longer shoot rifle or pistol competitively.

Over 30 years ago, when I lived in Texas for a few years, I shot trap regularly with a gentleman in his 80s at the Fort Worth club. He could hold his own against all comers in trap and was usually one of the contenders at the State Championships. Also, several of Colorado's current top American Trap competitors are in their 70s. I am a few years over the "Old Crock" age and my scores are still improving. So if 60 is too old for rifle or pistol, the shotgun sports will still welcome you. Of course there are some youthfull shooters who's eyesight, endurance, and reflexes will make you use all your experience and skill to successfully compete with them.

The elderly gentleman at the Fort Worth Club taught me a valuable lesson. One day after I shot poorly, I asked him what I should do. He replied "change your hat". I asked him "why?". His response, "It's a lot cheaper than changing your gun and will probably do just as much good."

Fellas
I agree with everything you said. I've been known to shoot NECO wafers with a 22 rifle and pistol, collect all the left over Halloween Pumpkins the road side stands didn't see and use them at 300 yards as targets, watching six one gallon milk jugs explode having hit them with a 450 grain cast bullet or a 300 grain 375 bullet.
Some day those fellas will be moving to the head of the line, what will they be teaching the next bunch coming up behind them?
Jim

I like it when the AR click come to the range. They put yard square targets up at 25 yards and grin when they hit it. I put silver dollar size Shoot-N-See targets at 100 yards, when they ask me what I'm shooting at I tell them - the number 10 printed on the center of the target. They chuckle until they look through the spotting scope. Then they start to ask questions.

Well, since no one else under the age of codgerdom has posted to defend our honor, I guess I will. Not all young kids get out and blast with AR's and AK's, in fact, I don't know any that do. Not saying that they don't exist cause I am sure they do, in fact, we banned a member of our gun club for that exact thing, but I know several guys under the age of 25 that are respectful and conciencious shooters, and some of them are pretty darn good shots too. So please don't lump us all together

All this talk about being "old crock's" .... The results of the tests my doctor ran indicate my body is between 83 and 85 years old but according to my birth certificate I'm only pushing 40.

Given my physical status, or should I say lack thereof, I at least halfway qualify as an "old crock". Now, the thing that gets me in this post is that those of you who claim to be "old crock's" go on to talk about shooting bolt & lever actions. This put's a serious crimp on my "half way" claim because I'm still loading from the muzzle and lighting them off with a piece of rock.

I've been accused of "range blasting" several times in the past and once about two years ago. Problem is, the accusers were not paying attention to the whole picture and simply "assumed" I was just another punk.

20 years ago I shot combat comp. - rapid aimed fire engaging multiple targets with one or more weapons at the same time. The most recent "range blasting" accusation took place when I set up three targets with a 6" black bull, one at 15yds, one at 25yds and one at 40yds. I hadn't shot my 1911 in long time and wanted to see if I could still get back in the groove. I burned up 21 rounds from three mags, one mag dumped on each target and did it as fast as I could. About the time the last mag dropped into my hand, a few of the "old crocks" came over and started reading me the riot act. Since I was the only one shooting, I left them ramble on and didn't say a word, just started walking out to my targets. They followed, still yammering on until the one looked at the first target. He didn't say anything, just poked the guy next to him and pointed at the target. The yammering stopped and we continued on to the next target. When we got to the last one, the guy doing the most yammering looked at me and said, "dang nice shootin!" then start apologizing. I cut him off saying simply, "don't worry about it." I spent a couple more hours with the old crocks shooting more bull than targets but it was all good!

It ain't always all bad either.
A guy I have been good friends with for 40 years and his little brother who is no longer with us, and was also my friend, came up from a large metro area a few years back.
I grabbed a AK I have and loaded a 30 rounder, walked out back with it and some other guns, and let the brother empty it a time or two. The smile on his face when he handed me that gun back was priceless. I know he had shot some but not much and enjoyed that day a lot. A very good memory I am glad I have.
As long as your not infringing into others space with your antics what the heck eh? Time and place for all things I guess.

hey, what constitutes codgerdom???
:D

mostly being older than me :D

Oh, but my dear sir, the "Age of Codgerdom" includes the explicit right to lump. (Although that may only refer to our own waistlines, but lumping is lumping!)

The tendency is understandable: there's so darn few of "us" and so darn many of "them" (and fewer "us" every day!) that we tend to see things through a different set of glasses. Patience, you'll be a geezer one day yourself. The day that a short-sleeved beige jumpsuit first seems to be a good choice of clothes, you are one.

One becomes an "Old Codger" when one starts complaining about the "Younger Generation". Those who, as they age, continue to see the good in others of all ages become "Elderly Gentlemen (or Ladies)". When I retired at 55, I had business cards printed with the letters ROF after my name.

I've read alot of stuff about AR15's and the like in this thread and I find it wholy interesting.

Someone on the first page mentioned a "kid" (under 30) right? with a modded AR15 shootin off at rapid rate and well, not hitting much. I'd argue that his shooting probably reflected his training. Seeing as he was shooting in BDU's, it may be a fair assumption that he was a serviceman.

And in the Canadian Forces at least, 80% of the time we're shooting off half a 30 round mag a minute at least. Not because were just that great at aimed shots, but to surpress the enemy with sheer volume. Sure were taught to shoot well-aimed shots on the range, but in reality much of that goes out the window once we're in the field. At least most of the time.

(And ****, what I'd give to try out that tricked out AR!)

I doubt it, C7. Today's serviceman/woman spends so much time in BDUs and using an AR in anger that few if any of them want to see either one while they're home. You can bet money that any bullet sprayer you see decked out in BDUs and hosing a tricked-out AR is only a third-class wannabe. At best.

Then too, combat vets are more likely to take things OFF their weapon rather than add on. Weight and complicated gizmos will only get you killed in a real firefight.

Speaking for myself, it's been 36 years since I fired an AR/M16 in anger - and I have no desire whatever to ever touch another one. (Good gun, but bad memories.) The sound of an SKS or AK still makes my chest thump and my skin crawl.

Rocky's thoughts may well have been my own.

I was not, nor at 43, wil never be in the service. Honestly, I should have, if for nothing more than the experience. I had a boss who was a flight Engineer/crew chief/door gunner on a Huey, who then went, thru military testing, to the Silos in the midwest during the 60's.
He had a phrase that I loved:

The military is a million dollars worth of education and experience that you would not pay a dime for.

These "dudes" were not Servicemen. they were "dudes".

Posers, whackers, whatever your term is.

I went to the other end of the range, for no other reason than to get away from the din.

I have AR's
Two in fact.

One, a shorty, with an aimpoint sight, the other a Target gun, 20 inch.

both fun in their own right.

I've got nothing against ARs, I've got two AR10s.
For the AR10t I've worked up some good loads and practice once a month at 300 yards hitting the 10 inch round gong from the prone. I shoot that rifle prone because its darned heavy, with the scope.
The A-4 carbine is an off hand weapon, recent purchase, and it had functioning problems. Armalite took it in and fixed what ever the problem was.
As I've said before most of my shooting is with Winchester lever guns, with cast bullets.
I don't see the purpose in making noice.
I didn't want an AR/M-16 either, until after 9/11.
Jim

Rocky - you sum it up well.

That's why the M1 Garand isn't on my list of favorite rifles today.

Well personally I still love handling my C7. Although I'm not sure if I would relish the thought of using it in real combat. But there are functional parts in that excessive list, at least in my opinion. i.e. the forend grip.

A few thoughts on the subject:

#1 There are young “codgers” as well as old “codgers”. (Can be tall, short, smart, stupid,skinny,fat,black,white,rich,poor,etc).

#2 Hitting is more fun than missing.

#3 Missing rapidly is more fun than missing slowly

#4 “I will never grow up”!

Cheezywan

I guess I'll have to jump into this one and defend the under 30 shooters...

It does seem as though our generation has a love affair with anything exocentric but as stated by my 30 and under counterpart ...all of us are not that way.

I personally enjoy taking my time both on the bench and on the shooting sticks but I've been shooting with a buddy now for a while and he loves to get up close with pistol or shotgun and "blow" cans and targets up. He is still very knowledgeable when it comes to gun handling and safety so I see no problem in him have a good time and as long as he isn't being disrespectful to other outdoorsman and nature.

...The purpose in life isn't to be the healthiest corps in the graveyard, but to slide in sideways yelling heck of a ride...

Just something for all of the "Old Codgers" to think about.

Arkypete and All
I feel compelled to respond,even though i've nothing new to add to what has already been said,because I'm a genuine "Old Codger".
But,with the exception of my little 30 Carbine,I never was interested in simply blasting awayto hear the noise.
Because I experiment withnew loads,I shoot a lot of lousey groups,without any remorse.But I hate to shoot a poor group with a tried and true load.At our rangewe are required to write the approxamate amount of bullets fired,during th day.I very often have only 20 or 50 rounds to report.I feel that I'm having a much fun as the guys shooting 200 or 500 rounds.
About that 30 Carbine.The first one that I had,I traded it in for a Supermatic Pistol,and had several hundred rounds of never to be used ammo.This was before the DCM sold any.
I took it to the Farm where we did a lot of casual shooting,and proceeded to blast awayfrom the 'hip'position.
The Farmer,an elderly Gentleman,begged me to stop;he could'nt stant to see such wanton waste.It was his property;I had to stop.An I glad.Acouple of years later,They were available for 19 dollars from the DCM,and I still had a couple hundred rounds for it.
Frank

You guys obviously did not get the Memo. Mall Ninja's now wear desert camo instead of black! It is the new tacticool color. Please remember, not all AR/AK shooters are wanna be's. I think an AR with a multiple handgaurd rail system is kinda funny. You start w/ a lightweight, very manuverable firearm and put so much crap on it that it now weighs the same as a '67 Buick. Whatever floats your boat I guess. The only plus about these guys, they leave their brass behind. Jim

How's this for tricked out?

How's this for tricked out?

Where's his weather vane? Or did I miss it behind the rest of the junk? :confused:

The Swiss knife is a fine touch! :D

Where's his weather vane? Or did I miss it behind the rest of the junk? :confused:


The Bird will face into the wind! Ithiught he missed the bottle opener, until I saw the swiss army knife! :D

I still like my plain Janes.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/jpattersonnh/cbed0931.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/jpattersonnh/IM000278.jpg

I've had a few fellow shooters with scoped, bolt action rifles look at me funny when they checked out my .35 Rem or turk mauser targets in their scopes :D

How's this for tricked out?


...the rifle in the attatched image may not be as extreme, but keep in mind its a Ruger 10/22!

I suppose I am on the extreme side of younger members of this forum, and I sort of feel partial to both sides. I really don't like the "tacticool" rifles or when a guy gets a Mosin and puts a fiberglass stock on it etc... I'm definitely a fan of blued steel and walnut. That doesn't mean I'm not opposed at all to unloading a shotgun magazine on some poor unsuspecting bucket or take a semi-auto .22 ('cause my shooting buddies and myself are cheap) and rip through the magazine in an attempt to shoot a bunch of tin cans or something. I suppose it all comes down to if you can shoot... if that guy who put together that 10/22 can put 10 shots in a small hole a long ways away, well good for him. I still think all the stuff hanging off isn't necessary at all.

The Swiss knife is a fine touch! :D

My favorite is the dangling set of keys, presumably for the mandatory multiple gun locks!

JP,

What scope is that on the carry handle mount?

I've been trying to figure out a good scope to put on my carry handle.. I really like the trijicon on the catileaver mount, but that is over $400!!

Thanks

I'm about to be 57. My (adopted) son is 42, a 10 year Army veteran and has been shooting since he was 12.

He is of the "many rounds, quickly, with as much noise as possible" school. His favoite weapan is a Mossberg "street sweeper" with a pistol grip, which he will shuck-and-shoot as fast as he can for as long as his wrist can stand it.

In fairness, I used to "plink" with a S&W Model 29 using hot Specials or light Mags. Blew up a lot of cans/bottles/cars/targets of opportunity.

Yesterday, I went to the range and punched paper. Shot my .17 and .22 rifles, a buddy's .35 Remington lever, my Single Six, my PPKS and my Combat Commander. Took me 3 hours to go through maybe 300 rounds of ammo, and most of that was .22lr

Tickled to find that I can still shoot a 30 round NRA pistol course with iron sights and score 250 +/- with the ol' .45

Most fun was shooting at the Wally-Mart swinging .22 target with the Single Six and taking out clay pigeons at 100 yards with the Hummer.

To each his own, I guess.

How's this for tricked out?

ROFLMBO! That's the best laugh I've had in weeks...