What kind of distance could I expect to accurately shoot with my Colt AR15 .223. It's got a Weaver 36X40 target scope. I'll be shooting it from a bench rest and a bipod.

For what? People use them for 600 yard competition and beyond; depends on the barrel twist rate and what bullets you'll be using.

Mike:

I'm not shooting competition, just for fun. You sort of answered my question; 600 yards with good quality ammunition is about what I would have expected. When you say beyond 600 yards how far are you thinking? I'm assuming good ammo and that I can hold it on the target.

Thanks for the reply!

The typical Highpower match is the National Match Course (NMC), which is shot at 200, 300, and 600 yards (although there are Reduced Course matches).
Then there is Long Range (LR), which is either 800, 900, and 1,000 yds, or just 1,000.

When I last shot Highpower, AR15s were common in NMC matches, but no so much in LR. It was doable with an AR15/.223, but it pretty much took a bullet of at least 80 grains, and an accordingly fast twist.
It was just easier to do with a bigger round, and since most shooters still owned such a rifle, that's what usually got used.

But that all could have changed in the past three years or so that I've been out of the loop.

There is also the question of what damage you want to do at a given range. Hitting the target is only part of the problem. While it's possible to get hits at 600 yards with an AR15/.223 with a good match bullet, a match bullet will give less expansion that the average SP bullet at any velocity, and the velocity at 600 is pretty low.

Although I used to shoot at 500 and 600 yards with one, I'd probably not try to kill anything beyond 300.

Barry:

Thanks for all the info. I'm not concerned with hunting, just shooting paper.

Thanks again!

I shoot the Nationals at my Range, at ranges of 200, 300, and 600.
I am shooting a fairly stock Bushmaster XM15A2, 20", 1/9" twist.
The only mods I have doe are a RRa match trigger, a Wilson break, and a set of match sights. The front hand guards are aluminum to reduce weight off and, but besides thes things, she's stock.
With Seirra 69gr or Hornaday 68gr, she'll keep me in the 450-475 point range consistantly, without even trying hard.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682422/1127617/274929505.jpg

When I sighted her in this spring at 300 with a scope on top, she literally shot 1 1/4" groups from a bench rest.

The AR design is pretty good as a target repeater, but a good trigger is almost a neccessity.

Similar to Chris, I run a Compass Lake built Bushmaster with 7 1/2" twist. It'll touch 1000 yard targets, but mostly I shoot the little flat base 53 grain Sierra at 200 yards, the 77 grain SMK's (which military Unit Desgnated Marksmen are using in the sandbox) at 300, then the Berger 80 grain VLD's at 600, where you are single-loading and don't have to worry about keeping the rounds down to magazine length. This makes my come-ups a little curious, but it works for me.

The match bullets either disintegrate or tumble on game. The small hollow points are an artifact of the makers forming the bases first (most critical to accuracy), which forces them to insert the core from the nose, leaving that end to be closed as much as possible by forming the ogive. It has no utility and was declared non-expanding by the AG in the mid 80's. That is is why they can be used in combat without violating the Hague Accords.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

I too am a fan of those little pills at 200. I have found the Hornaday 52 grainers extremely accurate in the 1/9 twist, using 24.5grains of Varget. This load is great at that range, will shoot well at 300 also if not too windy, and I have actually used this load on some chucks in VT that obliterated them on impact at about 150 yards.
Around the same weight, the winchester power point round nose 55gr. bullet has given me great accuracy at the 200 and 300 line also...while not a match bullet, it surely performs.

I am currently working a load for Marshall's .224, and will see how they fly at distances.

chris~

I haven't tried the 52's. Years ago, when I was shooting a fair amount of .222 reloaded in one of the old Lee Zero Error loaders, I found the flat base versions shot consistently tighter than the boattails at shorter ranges. Possibly just because the longer bearing surface straightens out a little more easily, but maybe also better immunity to tiny crown imperfections, since the bullet spends less time in the bore with the muzzle jet spraying all around it. Might well have been true just for that gun, but the conspicuous absence of boattails among benchrest bullets tells me I'm not the only one.

I'll try a box of the 52's, just to satisfy my curiousity. Maybe I can talk you into doing the same with the 53's and we can compare notes?

Understanding that were talking target shooting at paper I would say that 600 yards is about the max one can expect consistent scores with the AR15 platform.
I have seen some guys with bolt-action .223 hit good scores out to around 800 yards as long as the wind was dead calm.
I occasionally shoot a match here and there and score pretty well with my Bushmasters out to 300 yards. At 600 yards the best I can do is 4 - 6 inches.
AR15/M16 were designed for ranges out to about 200 – 300 yards.
That’s why when I go beyond 300 I pick up my Springfield National Match.
You need the right tool for the job.

5150,

Believe it or not, the last time they held a Long Range Firing School at Camp Perry that I could attend, the Marines had some guys firing match M-16's from the 1000 yard line. They said the load used an 80 grain bullet but wouldn't or couldn't tell us any more than that. Their armorers were apparently playing around with the load and it was "classified", meaning they didn't want competing service marksmanship teams to learn the details. They seemed to do about as well as any other service rifles present (.308 and .30-06). If you run ballistic tables on the 80 grain Sierra, or better still, the 80 grain Berger VLD or the JLK 80 grain VLD, they are surprising. Not up to the Palma rifles and the .300 magnums that were also on the line, but perfectly good against other service rifles.

I have heard of this before.
If I understood it correctly they were also using highly modified M16’s with 24inch match barrels.
That’s way beyond my current AR15’s and also my ability.
Pretty impressive anyway you look at it though.
I tried to keep my response with in the confines of the title post (reasonable AR15 Shots)
I believe that 1000-yard consistently accurate shots from a .223/556 AR15 platform are out side of the realm of reasonable for the vast majority of shooters.
My Last trip to Blackwater some of the guys were making consistent 8 inch groups at 800 yards with their Armory modified M16’s using what they said were 80gr match ammunition.
Still the lighter the bullet the more the wind plays on it and I think the heavier calibers have an advantage at longer ranges.
I wish I could shoot that well at those distances.

I'll try a box of the 52's, just to satisfy my curiousity. Maybe I can talk you into doing the same with the 53's and we can compare notes?

I'll look for some, and try the same load in the rifle.
Yes, we'll compare, and see which of the two works and does not, or both work...

On the heavy end tho, I'm afraid 70 grains is the end run on the 1/9 twist.

I had gotten ahold of some cast 75grainers, and shot them at 100. they grouped really well, but at 200 started to go erratic in groupings, and even keyholed. Load weight of powder made no difference, so I concluded that this particular bullet could not be stabilized out of a 1/9 past 100.
all the better, they were a dirty bullet, of a soft compound, and leaded the barrel quite easily.

As far as long shots go, and I realize that the launch platform is different, but didn't David Tubb and his AR-derived Tubb bolt gun shoot the 1000 to a win???

I thought David Tubbs gun was 6mm/.243 highly customized bolt action with 115gr bullet?

Chris in Jersey. That's a good lookin piece in your post.

FEDERAL AMMUNITION 223 REMINGTON 77GR SEIRRA MATCHKING BOAT TAIL HOLLOW POINT. This is the bullet I am planning on shooting in the rifle. It has a 24" barrel with a 1 to 9" right hand twist. I am a good shot. Could I expect to hold a 6" group at 600 yards assuming no wind?

I appreciate all the replies!

FEDERAL AMMUNITION 223 REMINGTON 77GR SEIRRA MATCHKING BOAT TAIL HOLLOW POINT. This is the bullet I am planning on shooting in the rifle. It has a 24" barrel with a 1 to 9" right hand twist. I am a good shot. Could I expect to hold a 6" group at 600 yards assuming no wind?

I appreciate all the replies!

Your rifle's twist may not stabilize that bullet.
I would think that most 1/9 twist barrels would not, but I suppose there is a chance. My first match AR15 had a 1/9 twist, which supposedly limits me to 68 and 69 grain bullets, but it shot the Hornady 75 grain fine.
But I doubt I could go any heavier.
I know there is only two grains difference in weight between a 75 grain bullet and a 77, but the Sierra 77 is a good bit longer than the Hornady 75. And that's what will make the difference, I'm afraid.

Would there be a lot of difference in the 75 and 77? Could I expect the 75 to hold that group, but not a 77?

. . . If I understood it correctly they were also using highly modified M16’s with 24inch match barrels. . .

Not the one's I saw. Standard 20" tube with standard-looking flash suppressor.

. . . Still the lighter the bullet the more the wind plays on it . . .

Actually, it's all about ballistic coefficient. Remember that a lighter bullet, unless it's made of less dense material, also presents less area for the wind to blow against. Wind deflection is proportional to off-axis drag, which is proportional, for a given wind condition, to the difference between the time it takes a bullet to arrive at the target in air and the time it would take in a vacuum. That is because that difference is proportional to drag effects, as B.C. is inversely proportional to them. High B.C. is one reason the 6.5mm's, with their great sectional density, have been displacing a lot of .30's in long range shooting. The 6.5-284 in particular, seems to keep up with the .300 Win Mags at 1000 yards firing much heavier bullets.

In the case of the 80 grain Berger .224" VLD's, the BC is just a couple tenths lower than the 175 grain SMK BC's, so it performs almost as well at 1000 yards for a given muzzle velocity. The disadvantage is small enough that the best shots can easily make up the difference with skill when shooting against the second tier. Out at 1000 yards it is all about reading the wind, once you have a bullet that can make the trip.

I thought David Tubbs gun was 6mm/.243 highly customized bolt action with 115gr bullet?

Yes, indeed it is...my reference was to the fact it is an AR derivitive, that's all.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek016.html

I will fall back on my last comment.
"I wish I could shoot that good at those distances".
I'm pretty accurrate out to about 200 to 300 yards with my Ar15's and 600 yards with my M1A Springfield.
Beyond those distances my consitancy drops off a bit.

my Personal favorite for the Nationals in the M1A;
unfortunately, it cannot hold the accuracy, even bedded in Nat.Match form, as well as an AR.

I started in the Nationals shooting a Garand. just a GI clunker, and moved to a semi match Garand;
Then to the AR, plain stock...
Then to the M1A, for about 8 years,, two bedding jobs, two Douglas Barrels, and several other "accurizings"...
and once again to the AR.



Been with the one I pictured before for about 4 years now, I'm just beginning to really settle in with it.

Just for fun, try shooting the National Distances with a 16" version...a humbling experience!