Hello. I REALLY need some help! I bought a 7mm-08 rifle barrel. Shoots about an eight inch verticle string. Seems to be temperature related. I returned it per T/C and got a replacement in the same caliber. It shoots eight to ten inches high with a clean bore. A few shots later it settles down. Clean it again with just a few patches and right back up there. I've checked the head space, installed an oversized pin, changed ammo, checked the scope. still no luck. I talked to Mike Behlm and he indicated ten inches high out of a clean bore is not unusual. I can't trust this rifle. Any insight would be greatly apreciated.

Not real sure what to suggest for you. Eight inches is a lot of stringing! At what distance are you shooting?

My .260 barrel doesn't like a clean barrel either, but not having the extensive problem you are. You said you tried different ammo. Have you tried different weight bullets? Maybe your barrel wants lighter/heavier.

How many rounds do you have downrange? It might be an issue of "break-in". T/C has been known to be notorious for rough barrels. It may settle down after a couple boxes of ammo. You could try a barrel lapping process; either hand lapping or fire lapping. If you were close to here I would tell you to come over and we'd work on that......but.

I believe that the stringing could be temperature related. I have seen this in my own barrels. You could try laxing up on your cleaning procedures a little and see if the dirty barrel shoots better. If so I would say it may be a rough barrel. You also may want to check the muzzle crown. If it is not square and true it will also greatly effect accuracy. May have been a Q/C issue on that barrel run at the factory. I have heard of barrels being reamed backwards on another brand of rifles a few years ago.

Good luck with it. Keep us informed on your findings.

Thanks. Day one at the range I thought I had it sighted in pretty close with 20 rounds. I went home and cleaned the bore with solvent and patches, no jag or brush. Didn't remove the barrel or forend. I went back a week later. 100yrds missed the 12in target. Went down range and found the point of impact about three inches above the target. Fired two more rounds almost touching on the top edge of the target. Dialed it down and got it where I wanted it. Ran two patches of solvent and then clean patches. Missed the entire target again two inches high. Shot a few more rounds and it was back to near point of aim. ran one solvent patch and one dry patch. Eight inches high. Barrel was cooled down between sessions. Hope this helps. I'm thinking Tikka t3!

Having worked with the T/C Encore since it's inception, here is what I have done to correct "problems" like you -

1 - Add oversize hinge pin...

2 - Pillar bed forend...

3 - Add heavy duty locking bolt spring...

4 - Recrown muzzle...

5 - Modify base and barrel to 6-screw design...

99% of the time, having this work done to an Encore barrel completely eleminates the "vertical stringing problems"...

If you're big into reloading, consider a rechamber job plus the work mentioned above and you won't need a Tikka and you can save the extra money for more barrels....

A

I too have a problem with an Encore 24", 30.06 rifle barrel stringing groups. Groups string vertical from 3.5" with handloads to a little over 6" with factory ammunition. The horizontal dispersion is great only 1/4" - 1/2".
In my case it does not seem to matter if it is the first shot out the barrel or not, the stringing can occur at any point. Sometimes a couple of shots are right on top of one another with one several inches up or down and other times there will be 3 evenly spaced vertically strung shots. I have shot different weight bullets - that's not it, and I don't believe it is temperature related either - my other rifles shoot fine (same day, same load, etc). Thought maybe scope problem - changed it - scope not the problem. I don't believe the problem is chamber or crown or hinge pin (hinge pin is tight takes some effort to get it in). I have a contender carbine rifle that does the same thing. I sent it back to TC - came back no better. I also have quite a few 10" and 14" handgun contender barrels that shoot great. Why do the hangun versions shoot so good and the rifles lousy? The problem seems to be with the rifle configuration. I don't have a clue what the problem is. Looking for help too.

Most stringing problems, whether horizontal or vertical are usually related to the forend. In ths case, pillar bedding is usually the cure...

When it comes to the T/C Contender, the rubber forend made by Pachmayr seems to be one of the best ones on the market....

A

My forearm only touches where the two screws attach it to the barrel - the rest free floats - it is a Pro Hunter forearm mounted on standard 24" Encore barrel.
I am starting to wonder if maybe I am getting inconsistent primer ignition - maybe weak hammer spring. As good as the horizontal dispersion is I just can't help but believe this barrel has potential.

Is it possible there is movement between the butt stock and the frame?

I suppose it is possible and I have suspected that the stock/frame configuration might be the culprit, but I have not been able to detect any movement. I am about to give up on Encore Rifles/TC Carbines. They just don't seem to have the consistant accuracy I look for in a rifle. Was hoping someone else may have experienced this same problem and had an answer for the fix, i.e. fixed the problem.

I think you're overcomplicating the problem. It's not temperature related, and probably not related to any problem with the mechanics of the rifle. Sounds like it just shoots high out of a clean bore. Many rifles will, to a greater or lesser degree. This is not a reasun to distrust the rifle -- in fact, it makes the rifle very trustworthy! You know what it will do, and how to correct it.

I have a Mauser Sporter in .30-06 that throws the first couple of shots from a clean bore about 8" high. No problem -- before hunting season, I fire two rounds through the clean bore and then leave the bore alone for the rest of the season. After that, it puts every shot exactly where I want them to go until the end of the season, at which point I clean it again.

Having worked with the T/C Encore since it's inception, here is what I have done to correct "problems" like you -

1 - Add oversize hinge pin...

2 - Pillar bed forend...

3 - Add heavy duty locking bolt spring...

4 - Recrown muzzle...

5 - Modify base and barrel to 6-screw design...

99% of the time, having this work done to an Encore barrel completely eleminates the "vertical stringing problems"...

If you're big into reloading, consider a rechamber job plus the work mentioned above and you won't need a Tikka and you can save the extra money for more barrels....

A
Considering that the first three items you list would cost a grand total of $15...I jump on those first. But before I spent a nickle I'd make sure my scope was not slipping thru the rings. Common cause of verticle stringing and basically free to fix.

Troubleshooting 101 : throwing money at a problem that doesn't require money to solve, often does not solve the problem.

> It shoots eight to ten inches high with a clean bore. A few shots later it settles >down. Clean it again with just a few patches and right back up there.

I'll say it again -- what is being described is not "vertical stringing" -- it is throwing shots high from a clean bore, then settling down to group once the bore is fouled. If any of the other factors being suggested were true, the groups would never "settle down". Fix the whole laundry list of possible faults, and I'll bet you it will still do this.

Hello. I REALLY need some help! I bought a 7mm-08 rifle barrel. Shoots about an eight inch verticle string. Seems to be temperature related. I returned it per T/C and got a replacement in the same caliber. It shoots eight to ten inches high with a clean bore. A few shots later it settles down. Clean it again with just a few patches and right back up there. I've checked the head space, installed an oversized pin, changed ammo, checked the scope. still no luck. I talked to Mike Behlm and he indicated ten inches high out of a clean bore is not unusual. I can't trust this rifle. Any insight would be greatly apreciated.I was loading some 240gr jhp bullets with H110 pretty hot for my 454 casull encore barrels & when I listened to some advice & dropped the powder loads down some I started getting verticle stringing went back to my original loads and it stopped.

It seems that many here take the vertical POI shift from a clean bore as normal. Does anyone know why this occurs? I understand how swabbing a warm/hot bore with solvent might change the POI, but this seems to be regardless of hot/cold barrel issues.

I use fouling shots before every session in which I'm shooting for score (ie: developing a load, zeroing scope, etc.), but I've never thought to go to my favorite hunting grounds with a dirty bore. This could explain why I missed a tribe of strolling Javelina three times from 160 yards with an Encore pistol while using a rest....

It seems that many here take the vertical POI shift from a clean bore as normal. Does anyone know why this occurs? I understand how swabbing a warm/hot bore with solvent might change the POI, but this seems to be regardless of hot/cold barrel issues.

I use fouling shots before every session in which I'm shooting for score (ie: developing a load, zeroing scope, etc.), but I've never thought to go to my favorite hunting grounds with a dirty bore. This could explain why I missed a tribe of strolling Javelina three times from 160 yards with an Encore pistol while using a rest....

I don't know "the" reason for it, but it is fairly easy to surmise that a clean bore may give higher or lower velocity than a fouled bore, depending on the particular gun. Any variation like this might change the shot-to-shot vibration of the barrel and cause a shot to fly high-wide-wherever.

I find it interesting that when you shoot on paper you allow for this phenomenon, but "when it counts" you don't.

Yeah, I never thought about it until today. I used fouling shots as a matter of course because "everyone else does it." I know better now.

Edited to add:

I didn't realize some barrels exhibit this problem, and never thought to check my own shooters. When sighting in or working up a load, data from the first three rounds were thrown out, so I wouldn't have noticed if it was hitting high or low.

Cut four inches off of the barrel and the T.C. will stop stringing usually!

That break open situation you describe has happened to me a number of times. Usually when I switch barrels the Point of Impact will shift an inch or two, but not 8 inches.

7 times over the last 30 years of using break opens I have had this exact problem. Twice it was the scope base. The frame overhange at the rear of the base had a zero clearance margin and when I machined the overhang the problem went away. 5 times including once with a Shephard scope the locking mechanism inside the scopes would not hold for whatever reason.

Have friends that have had this problem as well. There consensus was a bore that is oversized. The first 2 or 3 shots always way high. Once the barrel has had some temperature, the metal swells and bullets start printing low again.

SInce this problem can cause a guy to become very un-trusting about his weapon I would suggest giving Jim at SHots t/c's a call at 541-472-5279. He works on situations like this all the time and I am certain he will be able to correct whtever problem there is.

Neal

Cut four inches off of the barrel and the T.C. will stop stringing usually!I was getting a good group with 454casull hand loads in my 20" Bullberry Encore rifle barrel using 240jhp & H110 but when I took some advice & reduced the powder charge I started stringing shots ,went back to original load and accuracy returned but it's not in any book.

Thanks. Day one at the range I thought I had it sighted in pretty close with 20 rounds. I went home and cleaned the bore with solvent and patches, no jag or brush. Didn't remove the barrel or forend. I went back a week later. 100yrds missed the 12in target. Went down range and found the point of impact about three inches above the target. Fired two more rounds almost touching on the top edge of the target. Dialed it down and got it where I wanted it. Ran two patches of solvent and then clean patches. Missed the entire target again two inches high. Shot a few more rounds and it was back to near point of aim. ran one solvent patch and one dry patch. Eight inches high. Barrel was cooled down between sessions. Hope this helps. I'm thinking Tikka t3!
Have you checked the scope you're using?? I've seen these problems from scopes, and their rings and mounts. Even expensive scopes can sometimes be a dud. Why don't you talk to T/C and see if they'll fix you up with a new rifle, they have a very good customer service department. I have an Encore with a 50cal T/C barrel and three from Bergara, in 243, 45-70, and 30-06. All of them start to string the shots as soon as the barrel gets hot. Let it cool, and it's one ragged hole at 100yds with my handloads.

i had an enccore in the same caliber about eight years ago,same problem,
i finally had enough and sold it. after the fact i discovered other owners were experiencing the same problems.
recently,i got back into the encore ,this time a 15" pistol barrel configuration,and the person i traded with said he had a smith smooth out the barrel .

i do not know what that smith did , but this one is definitely accurate
from the first shot on. so far i've used two powders and two bullet weights, the powders are w748 and imr 3031, the bullets are 140 gr rem. corelokts and 154 gr hornady interlock flat base.

if all else fails get t&c to replace the rifle. dan

Hello. I REALLY need some help! I bought a 7mm-08 rifle barrel. Shoots about an eight inch verticle string. Seems to be temperature related. I returned it per T/C and got a replacement in the same caliber. It shoots eight to ten inches high with a clean bore. A few shots later it settles down. Clean it again with just a few patches and right back up there. I've checked the head space, installed an oversized pin, changed ammo, checked the scope. still no luck. I talked to Mike Behlm and he indicated ten inches high out of a clean bore is not unusual. I can't trust this rifle. Any insight would be greatly apreciated.

If this is a synthetic stock,I would get a wood stock set.I had trouble with the rynite stock set on my encore rifle barrels.The only one I have left is a 24" 22 hornet.I had a 300 win.mag barrel that shot really good.The 7 rem. mag,25/06,22-250,and 270 shot as bad or worse as you desciribe yours shooting.I saw others at the range that were as bad.The wood forend did wonders for the 300 win.mag.The hornet barrel out shoots them all by a wide margin.But only with 50 gr. sierra blitzkings and Lil'gun.The others could not be helped.Tc has a thing for oversize,too deep chambers,and off center or too big throats.Or no throat at all.Did I mention chambers that are off center from throat that is off center from the bore.The only safe barrel for an encore is one that is small enough to be rechambered to something else if it won't shoot.Do a chamber cast to see what the chamber and throat are like.

I too had trouble with barrels from T/C. A friend recommended trying the Bergara barrels that CVA sells. I checked some forums, and most said bad things about the barrels not fitting right. I took a chance anyway(can always send it back) and bought a 30-06 barrel from Natchezss.com for 179.00. I followed Barnes bullets recommendation on barrel break in,(it's on their web site), it shoots one ragged hole at 100 yds, 21/2inches at 300yds with the Berger 168VDL I loaded up for it. I also bought a 243, and a 45/70. All fit perfect, all are one hole barrels at 100yds. The hole for the barrel pin is tighter than T/C's barrele too, so there's no pin movement ruining accuracy. They're good barrels, and they have a target crown on them. Give one a try, like I said, you can always send it back if it doesn't work for ya.:D

I looked on the Natchezss website and could only find T/C barrels by Ed Brown. Have they quite handling the brand?

I read with interest and concern about your verticle shot stringing problem with the Encore, because I had just made a down payment for a stainless/synthetic Encore in .308. I just brought it home and upon removing the fore stock, I noticed that it is attached with two small bolts that are inserted through pillars and then into the barrel. The fore stock also has four laterally running ridges that provide lateral stiffness to the forend. It appears that all six of these points bear against the underside of the barrel. We know that direct contact against a rifle barrel by a hard object can affect accuracy. However the experiences reported in this thread seem to indicate that the verticle stringing was avoided by fowling the barrel and leaving it dirty, and in some cases replacing the barrel. It's hard to believe that a company as old and Thompson Center would not have quality barrels.
I plan to shoot my .308 with fore stock on and see if it verticallly strings bullets. If it does, I plan to clean the barrel, remove the fore stock, and rest the rifle on the hinge area, avoiding all contact with the barrel. If it doesn't string shots, I will know it is a bedding problem. I have some ideas about how to free float the barrel with contact between the barrel and the rear three inches of the stock(the area between the two rear most ridges) and a rubber washer between the front pillar and barrel, if my rifle string shots vertically. I recall that some of the Ruger No. 1's had vertical stringing problems that were eventually traced to the bedding of the forearm, and I have experienced bolt guns that had irregular forend pressure on the barrel that shot better after free floating the barrel.
If any of you still having vertical stringing problems with the Encore try firing without the forend stock and no pressure on the barrel, please let us know the results. Thanks

I looked on the Natchezss website and could only find T/C barrels by Ed Brown. Have they quite handling the brand?
No Hailstone my friend, you need to look under CVA. Thats who markets the barrels in America. I just got Natchez's new monthly flyer, and they have the barrels listed under the CVA Optima Pro section. They are listing, 7mm-08, 308, 30-06, 270, 243. They run in price from, 162.61 to 184.84, depending if it's stainless or blue. If you want a 45/70 barrel, it's a bull barrel, the item # is CVTC4700. I hope this clears it up for you my friend, enjoy if you buy one!!!:D

that is interesting. I've got a couple 26" blued encore bbls, a 22/250 that is incredibly accurate and also a 25/06 that is about a 1" bbl most days. i also have a 15" 7/08 bbl and it is a really good shooter.
the one thing that i notice most about the encore in it's rifle form is that for me it is harder to shoulder the rifle consistantly, the fact that there is virtually no pitch to the stock i figure is the main culprit. it's hard for me to get the butt set in the shoulder pocket the same every time. that to me could also be a major cause of vertical stringing.

I have an encore 30-06 w/Nikon Monarch 2.5-10x50 scope on an aluminum 1 piece base/ring combo. I'm having problems with vertical stringing, failure to hold zero and misfires. I have ordered the trigger kit from bellum and hope to solve the misfires. Just today I discovered the zero problem. The Nikon is a heavy scope that substatially overhangs the unsupported fron portion of the base. The recoil is bending the base down twards the barrel and slowly raising the point of impact. With a lighter scope and before the misfires started the gun grouped 1 1/4 @ 100 yds. I hope to get back to that.

I finally got to the range last week, and experienced vertically stringing after the barrel heated. Initally, it shot a very tight group at 100 yds. However, with shot #8 it was 4" high and #9 about 8" high.
I let it cool and placed small washers between both bolt holes and the barrel, in an effort to eleminate any contact between the lateral ridges in the forearm and barrel. That seemed to fix the problem as groups tightened and I was able to shoot tight groups to 200 yds. The bolts are just long enough to fit, and I plan to get longer ones.
I know some of you experienced stringing with a clean, cold barrel. Nevertheless, I recommend you try to free float the barrel. It is a simple task. Uneven pressure on the barrel can cause all kinds of accuracy problems with both cold and hot barrels. Also a clean oiled barrel will frequently shoot the first bullet to a different point than subsequent ones.

I finally got to the range last week, and experienced vertically stringing after the barrel heated. Initally, it shot a very tight group at 100 yds. However, with shot #8 it was 4" high and #9 about 8" high.
I let it cool and placed small washers between both bolt holes and the barrel, in an effort to eleminate any contact between the lateral ridges in the forearm and barrel. That seemed to fix the problem as groups tightened and I was able to shoot tight groups to 200 yds. The bolts are just long enough to fit, and I plan to get longer ones.
I know some of you experienced stringing with a clean, cold barrel. Nevertheless, I recommend you try to free float the barrel. It is a simple task. Uneven pressure on the barrel can cause all kinds of accuracy problems with both cold and hot barrels. Also a clean oiled barrel will frequently shoot the first bullet to a different point than subsequent ones.

Also a clean oiled barrel will frequently shoot the first bullet to a different point than subsequent ones.

I can agree with that. I saw a fox from the house one day. rushed to the gun cabinet, grabbed my G2, set up nice and steady on the bipod and missed! I realised after that I still had some hoppes #9 in the barrel. I don't miss very often but thinking back they all have been with a clean barrel!

bones