I need a bit of guidence here.

I tried loading my 308 and 30-06 Model 70's in 165 grain Hornady SP interlock. However, I could not find a recipe that would give me the accuracy I wanted, under one inch.

I moved onto a 150 grain Hornady, SP interlock and developed basically cloverleaf spreads with IMR 4064. The velocity on the 308 is 2,645 FPS. The velocity on the 30-06 is 2,695 FPS. I was very happy with the results on paper, but now I am re-thinking for deer season. My concern is that the 150 will not have the punch power that the 165 has, leaving me wondering if it has what it takes to leave a blood trail.

I would like your thoughts on the performance of the 150, any 150 grain bullet on white tail deer. I have crossed the velocity of the 165 grain bullets using both IMR 4064 and IMR 4350, the two powders I have and found that I can get roughly the same velocity, but not the accuracy with my rifles that I get at with the 150. Will the 150 have the pass through power at the velocities listed or should I move to to the 165?

My range in the woods is typically not longer than 75 yards.

Thanks for the help.

Brad S
Hebrews 10:39

I know the Northern deer run bigger than they do around here but I am still confident that a good 150 grain bullet at reasonable velocity will kill them very dead.

Brad I would doubt that any whitetail would know the difference. Shoot the most accurate bullet. Lots of deer are killed every year with 30 caliber 150 grain bullets. The only place I see where they become a problem is where the magnum folks are loading them well above 3100 fps. They tend to blow up at those speeds. At 308 velocities they just kill well.

I need a bit of guidence here.

..... Will the 150 have the pass through power at the velocities listed or should I move to to the 165?

My range in the woods is typically not longer than 75 yards.

Thanks for the help.

Brad S
Hebrews 10:39

Brad,

Most any 308/150s will kill deer just fine at 75 yards.
If you want pass thru - Use Nosler Partitions.

PS: Hebrews 11:6

I've used the Hornady 150's on pronghorn, muleys, and whitetail. I have yet to recover one. They are plenty for deer.

I need a bit of guidence here.

I tried loading my 308 and 30-06 Model 70's in 165 grain Hornady SP interlock. However, I could not find a recipe that would give me the accuracy I wanted, under one inch.

I moved onto a 150 grain Hornady, SP interlock and developed basically cloverleaf spreads with IMR 4064. The velocity on the 308 is 2,645 FPS. The velocity on the 30-06 is 2,695 FPS. I was very happy with the results on paper, but now I am re-thinking for deer season. My concern is that the 150 will not have the punch power that the 165 has, leaving me wondering if it has what it takes to leave a blood trail.

I would like your thoughts on the performance of the 150, any 150 grain bullet on white tail deer. I have crossed the velocity of the 165 grain bullets using both IMR 4064 and IMR 4350, the two powders I have and found that I can get roughly the same velocity, but not the accuracy with my rifles that I get at with the 150. Will the 150 have the pass through power at the velocities listed or should I move to to the 165?

My range in the woods is typically not longer than 75 yards.

Thanks for the help.

Brad S
Hebrews 10:39



Brad my load is quite a bit different than yours, but I'd have every confidence that deer will just drop dead with your load. The key is a well placed shot at a reasonable distance.

The deer in North Carolina are average sized. I have killed many with the 150 and 165 Hornadys in the 308. All broadside shots go through. Lungs or shoulders. I tried a frontal shot with the 150s and will never take that shot on anything again. The body just swallowed that bullet up and never gave blood to follow. I have had 150s stop in the body and 165s stop in the body with angled hits. They killed and a lot of people like the bullet to stop in the body. I switched to 180s to see how I like them and so far they are my choice. Especially for a long shot. I happened to find some OLD Remington 180 Bronze points so I get expansion and exits! The 165 core lokt is a good bullet. I am not afraid to use either one. My loads are 180s 41 gr N140, 165s with either 40.5 gr IMR 3031 or 43 gr N140 or 39 gr Accurate 2230C. 150s similar loads as the 165s or I use 748. I have three 308s and the loads are all accurate enough out of each. Sub-minute in my bolt gun and 2" at 100 yards out of my pump is a good average. Hey The lungs of a deer are bigger than 2" and 300 yard shots here are rare.

To enforce what others have stated, I wouldn't have any doubts about a 150 gr bullet passing through the body cavity. I wouldn't go shootin at shoulders though.

For many years I've shoot big deer with my 270 making broad side lung and heart shoots with a 130 gr Ballistic Tip and get exit wounds every time. I would shoot the bullet that gives the best accuracy and not worry about it's punch as either of those choices shouldn't have any problem knockin em' down.

I've killed whitetail in Mississippi and Florida, as well as big muleys here in Utah and Idaho - all with the generic Hornady 150 softpoint (#3031) at moderate speeds from my .308. NO deer has ever needed two shots, and most were bang/flops. The farthest I ever had to "track" one was a dinky little two-point in Florida that ran back his track about 25 feet.

For muzzle speeds of 2400 to 2800, I truly think that bullet is about the best choice possible for deer, and if that's what's in the chamber, I'd confidently launch one at an elk.

Use the SST instead, for one thing. You'll be amazed at the accuracy difference, and at .308 speeds, it acts like a .300. I picked the 165 in my .308 simply because, ballistically, there wasn't much difference in the trajectories, and yet the 165 held more energy. So why not use it? But either one would do. But for deer, I'm all over the SST now. I've seen what they do, and there's no comparison.

As Rocky Raab points out, Idaho (and I suppose Utah?) mule deer can be very large deer. Have no fear using a 150 on any deer at all.

150's are plenty for deer, I have killed dozens of mule deer and several elk with em.
Like Bob said " the deer won't be able to tell the difference".

We use 165 grain bt with 4895 in the .30-06 for deer here, but it's not because they are ballistically superior, we get good accuracy from 4 out of 4 rifles that we use in that caliber. All around an inch at 100 yards. Not a lot of sense to switch loads for deer hunting, so we load a bunch and go.

If we had the same occur with 150's or 180's we'd use whichever worked for us. Any moderate load in a .30 will work for deer, I used to shoot 'em with a .30-30 pistol with 150 grain bullets and had no complaints. Just pick a good expanding bullet and practice with it.

Regards,
Gene

"Use the SST instead, for one thing. You'll be amazed at the accuracy difference, and at .308 speeds, it acts like a .300. I picked the 165 in my .308 simply because, ballistically, there wasn't much difference in the trajectories, and yet the 165 held more energy. So why not use it? But either one would do. But for deer, I'm all over the SST now. I've seen what they do, and there's no comparison."



I had good accuracy with the sst,s also, but they were not opening up!!! good for head and heart shots but poor blood trails on bad shots. this year i switched to 180 speer round nose! what a difference will never go back, no shots in my area are over 200 yards so its still bang thud, flop.

People ALWAYS seem to overlook roundnose bullets, even hunters who seldom get a shot beyond 100 yards.

The Hornady 150 JRN is often more accurate than other bullets, and is almost a 100% one-shot performer.

(Welcome aboard, sawdustdog.)

I use (in my '06)165 Hornady bT 56.5gr IMR 4350. I just got 1.25" a@ 100 dad gets better, will be better with a trigger job, two years ago I shot a nice deer @ 170 yards, high lung shot. This bullet turned the lungs into soup, the deer dropped like a sack of hammers. My dad has used this load for over 30 years, with shot form really close to really far away, great bullet great load.

I have used the 150 gr Hornady with good success on our large whitetail. Complete penetration on a chest shot, and a good blood trail.

Well Deer hunting season is over now. The 150 grain bullets worked every bit as good as the 165 grain bullets.

Using the 308, 43 grains of IMR 4064, the 150 grain Hornady took down two yearling bucks with single shots. There was limited meat damage as the bullets missed the shoulders and did not break apart. Both deer went less than 20 yards after being hit. One shot was 120 yards, the other about 70 yards.

Using the 30-06, 48 grains of IMR 4064, the 150 grain Hornady took down an 8 point buck that dressed out a 186 pounds. Single shot to the lung at 50 yards, deer ran another 70 yards. The bullet did not break apart, but did leave shock damage in the meat on the entry region. This appears to be the exact opposite of what we found with the 165 grain bullets in the past where the exit region was typically more of a mess in regard to the meat. We butcher our own so bullet performance and meat impact is known and watched carefuly.

For hunting, I am satisfied that the 150 grain bullets are sufficient for my needs.

I would post some pictures, but unfortunately the size of the photos in terms of memory exceeds the ability on the site.

Brad S
Hebrews 10:39

BradS,

You can post pictures directly from a host site. For instructions, download the .pdf file in post number 23 in this thread (http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=34239&page=2). If you use Image Shack (http://www.imageshack.us/) to host the pictures, it has resizing options just below the e-mail entry options when you host a file. I recommend you use either 640×480 or 800×600, and not make them any bigger than the latter.

congrats on your success!! i feel that we all have unfortunately become brainwashed into thinking that if a bullet isn't going 3000 fps it will just bounce off deer. fortunately i'm involved in a torrid affair with a sweet little 300 savage that has shown me the folly of modern thinking. incidently the loads and performance that you listed are rather similar to the 300 savage and concidering the reputation of the 300 savage it doesn't surprise me one bit about the outcome of your hunt. remember, the 300 savage is the original short magnum!!
the nice thing about slowing a bullet down is that you don't overstress it so it holds together nicely. also expansion isn't so extreme so penetration is still good. win win if you ask me.
it's taken me awhile but i'm catching on, i do still push my 25/06 hard otherwise i generally aim for around 2800 fps with my other big game rifles. my feeling is that the only real gain in that extra couple hundred fps is a little bit flatter trajectory @ 300 yds and beyond. personally i've shot antelope at close to 300 yards but for me much beyond that becomes a debate between hunting and sniping. i don't intend that to be inflamatory, that is just one mans personal decision and desire to try to get closer so any of you long range gunners who might be getting fired up, don't.
yesterday i was able to stalk to within 50 yards of a decent 3x3 buck bedded in the cedars and drop the hammer on him, to me thats cool. it reminds me of growing up in iowa hunting in the hardwood timber.
good shootin'

keep in mind that all the hipe you read in the magazines is there to sell new firearms. the old 30-30 does a great job on deer out to 200 yards with 150grain bullets moving at about 2,400 fps at the muzzle. Shot placement is more important than bullet weight and velocity. I don't think the deer will know the difference if you place any bullet in the right spot.

I forget what defensive shooting instructor first observed that you can't shoot fast enough to make a miss count? We should paraphrase that for hunting to say you can't fire a round powerful enough to make a miss count.

I do not have "on game" experience to cite but I have tested 150 grain Hornady Spirepoint bullets in wet newspaper along with 180 grain Spirepoint and 180 grain Nosler partition. My accuracy load of the 150 is with H414 and is a little higher velocity than you cite. What surprised me is the 150 grain penetrated within about an inch of the 180 grain Hornady, about 14.5 inches for the 150 versus about 15.5 for the 180. The Nosler was about 19 inches. The cavity for the 180 was bigger but the penetration was not a lot different.

I switched to the 180 based in part on these tests but I think you can also argue that these results indicate penetration for deer for the Hornady 150 is plenty for broadside shots, at least.

I also tested 150 grain Remington factory loads and got about 12.5 inches.

My other conclusion was that the 150 Hornady is a pretty tough 150 grain bullet.

Jim,

Can you post your average measured velocities for the two Hornady bullet loads? What I am looking for is to see whether the velocity times the weight of the 180 grain bullet divided by the velocity times the weight of the 150 grain bullet comes close to 15.5 divided by 14.5? If so, the difference will be attributable to the difference in momentum of the two loads. I've noted that relationship seems to hold true comparing like-constructed 9 mm and .45 ACP loads; penetration averages close to proportional to momentum, which is around 30% more for commercial .45 ACP loads, despite the energy of the two being similar.

I've killed whitetail in Mississippi and Florida, as well as big muleys here in Utah and Idaho - all with the generic Hornady 150 softpoint (#3031) at moderate speeds from my .308. NO deer has ever needed two shots, and most were bang/flops. The farthest I ever had to "track" one was a dinky little two-point in Florida that ran back his track about 25 feet.

For muzzle speeds of 2400 to 2800, I truly think that bullet is about the best choice possible for deer, and if that's what's in the chamber, I'd confidently launch one at an elk.


I would liketo say"ditto" to your remarks.
The Hornady#3031 bullet is my favorite for Whitetails in my Krag at 2500 FPS muzzle velocity.It opens flawlessly in the ribcage.That is enough expansion for me,and,on one occasion,took out both shoulders on a broadside shot.That is enough penetration for me.
Frank

shot a smaller whitetail with a 150 gr out of a 300 weatherby at aproximatly 400 yards. I'm not sure what weatherby factory ammo usues for bullets. but it left a hole big enough to set a softball inside. No meat was salvagable from the far rib rack. My brother uses 150's out of his 30-30. I use them in my 30-06 as well as my 300 wsm. No problems from the 30-06. And I'll be carring the 300 wsm this year.

Your load should do real well.
But You are awfully slow in velocity. I get 2800 with my model 70 308 shooting 150s , and my 06s over the years have aproced 3000 with a 150 grain.
But for your purpose you should be fine. You are more or less shooting a 300 savge and they do real well.
You might try W-748 RL-15 or varget in your .308 after deer season...tj3006

Attached, I hope, is the photo of the deer I took down with a single shot, 150 grain Hornady SP, shot was 50 yards, he went another 70 yards before dropping.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2475/8ptontractornov1007ib3.jpg

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3554/8pointwithgunnov1007yk7.jpg

Thanks to Unclenick for the help here.

Brad S
Hebrews 10:39

I have experienced the opposite. I get better accuracy with the 165 gr than the 150 gr in th 06. Bout the same accuracy in the .308. I use Varget in all my rifle rounds.

Nice buck Brad! Congrats.

I have experienced the opposite. I get better accuracy with the 165 gr than the 150 gr in th 06. Bout the same accuracy in the .308. I use Varget in all my rifle rounds.

I also get better groups from 165s in general and shoot them the most. I have killed two decent bucks with Hornady 150 BTSPs. Neither went far. Killed a few with 180s too.


Funny thing, shoot a deer in the cavity with a .30-06, and it just seems to die no matter what weight you are shooting.