Hi guys I sometimes get tired of paying these marked up prices for my firearms and was thinking about possibly applying for a FFL. Just wondering how involved and costly this process is. I have a CCW so I don't have any felonies or even any misdemeanors, heard there a lot of rip offs out there but there are a few good kits like Easy FFL but I'm still concerned about the initial cost of the application an any other expenses or fees I should be aware of. Thanks

Tj

I'm almost certain you'll find it impossible. It hasn't been possible for a non-store-owner to get an FFL for many years now.

You have to have a brick and mortar store, with an alarm system and safes. You have to provide a floor diagram and proof of 24-hr alarm security, proof of a current business license, background check of all prinicpal owners/partners - and more.

I might be wrong, but that's the way it was for several friends of mine who used to sell only at gun shows. No longer. Not allowed to even renew their existing FFLs.

Oh, and you might also be surprised to learn that those "marked up" prices are about a whopping 5% above retail. Gun sales is a very cutthroat business.

I'm almost certain you'll find it impossible. It hasn't been possible for a non-store-owner to get an FFL for many years now.

You have to have a brick and mortar store, with an alarm system and safes. You have to provide a floor diagram and proof of 24-hr alarm security, proof of a current business license, background check of all prinicpal owners/partners - and more.

I might be wrong, but that's the way it was for several friends of mine who used to sell only at gun shows. No longer. Not allowed to even renew their existing FFLs.

Oh, and you might also be surprised to learn that those "marked up" prices are about a whopping 5% above retail. Gun sales is a very cutthroat business.

Humm...... well I didn't know that, they got a sight www.easyffl.com claiming that you can, probably a rip off glad I checked here first, as for the 5 percent the gun stores in my area charge way more then that guess I'll have to makeup with the guy I used to go through. Thanks
Tj

I've never applied for an FFL, but my brother-in-law (an attorney) has had one for years, and just had his renewed. He is not required to have a store -- just a physical business address (his office). Nor is he required to have any of the other stuff mentioned. What he is required to do is maintain all the records properly, and submit those records to official scrutiny any time ATF wants to look at them. This they do, fairly regularly, and he has never had any trouble with them.

I DID have an FFL and Pisgah is pretty much correct.
You probably WILL have difficulty using a home address and any part of any building associated with the gun business that is open to the public is subject to search without warrent, by ATF. I used a seperate building in my yard and had no problems.

Personally, with todays regs its not worth it to have an FFL just so you can buy guns cheap. IT IS a competitive business with little markup for new guns. Used ones are a different matter, especially collectables but you don't really need a license for that anyway.

I worked on other folks guns and therefore needed a license. Jobers didn't consider you legite without one either so needed it for ordering parts.

I owned a storefront gun shop for 20 years and by the time I closed the FFL regs where getting stiffer and stiffer. I know one thing that is required is that your "store" has to have published open hours...hard to open your house to strangers. Also by getting an FFL you are extending an open invitation to law enforcement, including ATF, to enter your home any time they want to without a warrant. As stated you can buy any new gun at 10% over dealer cost by shopping around and an FFL won't get you better deals on used so why bother? A C&R is much easier to get and most places like Brownell's will accept those for dealer pricing. Here is a partial list of businesses that accept a 003 for dealer pricing...

AIM Surplus (firearms/ammo seller), P.O. Box 556, Springboro, OH. 45066
Allan's Armory, P.O. Box 331, Graham, FL 32042
Aztec International, PO Box 771569, Ocala, FL 34477-1569, (352) 629-6290

Brownells Inc (gun parts etc.), 200 South Front Street, Montezuma, IA 50171
Centerfire Systems, 102 Fieldview Dr, Versailles, KY 40383

Century Arms (firearms/ammo), 1161 Holland Dr., Boca Raton, FL 33487

Cole Distributing (firearms/ammo seller), P.O. Box 247, Scottsville, KY 42164
Empire Arms, P.O. Box 2068, Ormond Beach, FL 32175
FAC of America, 8035 Ranchers Road, Fridley, MN 55432, Phone: 1.800.486.5971

Graf and Sons, Inc (ammo, reloading, supplies etc.), 4050 S. Clark, Mexico, MO 65265

Huntingtons (ammo, reloading), P.O. Box 991, Oroville, CA 95965

J&G Sales (firearms, ammo, accessories), 440 Miller Valley Rd, Prescott AZ 86301

InterOrdnance, 3305 Westwood Industrial Dr., Monroe, NC 28110

L.C. Enterprises (firearms, ammo seller), S. 1093 Country Road G, Wonewoc, WI 53968

Numrich Gun Parts (gunparts Offers DISCOUNT), 226 Williams Lane, W. Hurley, NY 12491

SARCO Inc. (firearms/ammo, gunparts, accessories), P.O. Box 98, 323 Union Street, Stirling, NJ 07980

Southern Ohio Guns (SOG) (firearms/ammo), 240 Harmon Ave P.O. Box 590, Lebanon, OH 45036

Wholesale Guns (firearms/ammo), P.O. Box 289, Calverton, NY 11933

Midway USA (parts, ammo, reloading, books etc.), Dealer Sales, 5875 W. Van Horn Tavern Rd., Columbia, MO 65203

Samco (firearms/ammo), 6995 NW 43rd St, Miami, FL 33166

Perhaps I'm cynical, but I'd bet that places like "EasyFFL" only promise that they'll make it easy to APPLY for an FFL. I bet they make no promises or statements about it being easy to get one ISSUED.

As a side anecdote, one of my acquaintances applied for an FFL so he could sell guns at gun shows. He was denied. He kept the denial letter with him at gun shows, and sure enough, he was approached by BATF agents at a show. They wanted to charge him for running a gun business without an FFL - until he whipped out the BATF letter that said he didn't qualify as a gun business. The agents left, open-mouthed and dumbfounded.

If I had to speculate.... I would say it depends a great deal on where you are, and who in the BATFE is reviewing the application.

I have known people to get renewals running a business out of their house, and others to get denied with a separate building on their own property.

Would vote for the C&R, especially if you like playing with old military surplus stuff. It's a ton of fun and just as expensive in the end :D

in some states you have to have retail business license.and they wont give you one if you live in a house(to do sales) the ATF demands you must do business buy and sell to a reasonable amount. Get CDNN AND CENTER FIRE CATALOGS.AND ANY THAT SELL GUNS AT DEALER PRICES.FIND A LOCAL DEALER THAT WILL TRANSFER PAPER WORK AT SMALL FEE.SHOTGUN NEWS HAS LISTS OF DEALERS THAT WILL DO IT FOR $10 AND UP.MARKUP IS LIKE 100 % GET SHOTGUN NEWS AND CHECK PRICES.THEN CHECK LOCAL DEALERS. IT ANT WORTH IT I KNOW A DOZEN DEALERS WHO QUIT BECAUSE OF PAPER WORK.YES AND ONE MISTAKE AND THEY WILL HANG.YOU

getting an FFL to save money on your own guns won't fly with the ATF.

You need a store front, posted hours....in other words if you don't have the business side to back up your FFL request = denied.

Have you been to the BATF website? Those other places are selling what the government will tell you how to do?

You mights start at...

http://www.atf.treas.gov/forms/index.htm

Folks; do not use the easy FFL deals. It is silly. I have all the paper work here at home. My simple approach; Go to the BATF site and you can order direct; no charge, with all info.
I have no experienced history with BATF rule changes; I cannot comment on the yesterdays. Home is fine; building is fine; posted signage? Class 1 $250.00 with a $500.00-$1000.00 Federal excise tax due ?July? of each year.
Paying anyone for what is free? Considering your time? approx 1/2hr; and mailed to you.
If I can do it; nuff said

Craig

The irony is that when FFL's were first created (GCA '68), they were intentionally kept inexpensive to encourage everyone to come in under the umbrella of the new system voluntarily. Now that they've turned that concept on its ear, I would expect there are a lot more illegal deals going on than used to be the case.

Go for a curio license there is no requirement for a business address. it is set up for collectors, you won't save as much as you think you will buying with the ffl most shops don't have that much of a mark up on guns they make their money on accessories.