Our regular gun deer season began Thursday, but I was unable to get out until this morning. Half an hour before sunrise, I topped an oak ridge not far from home, located on the property of a good friend, and made myself comfortable overlooking a broad, steep draw. Only a few squirrels stirred for the first couple of hours, but abut 9:15 a flicking ear caught my eye at about 80 yards. There were still a good many leaves on the trees, so I never got a full view of the deer, but I got the scope on him, verified it was a nice 6-pointer, and, when the opportunity arose, planted a 180 gr. Sierra Gameking in his shoulder from my 97D chambered in .300 Benchrest Magnum. He went maybe twenty yards and piled up.

This rifle is so perfect for deer hunting, it almost feels like cheating...

Pisgah -- Congrats on the deer. Now, please, tell me more about your 97D as I am seriously considering one in 6.5 BRM. My concern on the 6.5 is that though it is based on the 6.5x55 its muzzle velocity is actually about 200 fps slower than the Swedish Mauser and 400 fps slower than a .260. How is your accuracy, any extraction problems? Thanks.

Standard velocity for the Swede load with 140 gr. bullet is 2500 fps. The BRM can be easily loaded to equal that, but odds are you'll be best served at around 2400 fps. That's all you need.

My 97D has fine accuracy with every load I've tried. Factory .30-30 loads, and .300 BRM handloads using 150, 165, and 180 gr. loads will easily group into under an inch at 100 yards. The load I used this morning has a muzzle velocity of 2300 fps. It is 2.5" high at 100 yds., dead on at 215, 10" low at 300 (all derived from actual shooting, not a formula or chart). I've never shot it at a deer as far away as 300 yards, but I'm confident it will get the job done. It has certainly hammered them out to 220.

Extraction can be a problem because of the action's poor leverage. But if you're a careful handloader and resist the urge to firewall your loads, it will never be an issue. Whenver I experiment with a new bullet or powder, I begin at a starting load and work up in 1/2 gr. increments. At the first sticky case, I back off half a grain, and that's my load.

If top velocity is what you crave, the 97D is likely not for you. The action is plenty strong enough, but the tight chamber and weak extraction will make it impractical. You'd be better served with a modern bolt action in 6.5 Swede or .260 if speed's the goal. If having a handly, comfortable-shooting, superbly accurate, and deadly effective rifle for hunting big game out to 300 yards is your goal, not many rifles can help you acheive it better than the 97D.

Thanks, Pisgah. I am looking for something light and pleasant to shoot, but packing enough power to use on game from coyotes to elk. Bolt guns are not in the mix. I've just never cared for them. I'm not necessarily looking for something with more velocity, I'm just a little concerned about the lack of information on the 97Ds. I know no one who owns one and the Privacy Act keeps Eben Brown from giving out customer information. The weak extraction bothers me, not because of any inherent need to shoot hot loads, but because it is an obvious failing in what is supposed to be a top-of-the-line rifle. And, on another forum, there is a guy who rants that the newer EABCO barrels do not have the quality of their previous barrels. Still, I am very intriqued by them but I've never seen one in the flesh (or wood and steel, as it may be) and the strangeness of the calibers offered -- both in the production and the special order models -- is disconcerting.

I understand all your reservations, and can't argue against them at all. It may be that something like a Ruger Number 1 would be more to your liking. I know I wouldn't mind having one!

As to Brown's choice of calibers, I think that comes in large part -- at least in his hunting calibers -- from his "thing" about the effectiveness of long-for-caliber bullets at moderate velocities, along with a belief that a short/fat powder column lends a "shaped charge" effect that promotes more consistent ignition and velocity, hence better accuracy (the same idea that is driving the current mania for the various short and super-short magnums.). Combine these with the fact that falling block actions are always easier to make work well with rimmed cartridges and you end up with what seem, especially to the non-handloader, pretty oddball. For the 6.5, 7, and .300 his inspiration is the .219 Donaldson Wasp but the base case is the .30-30 -- not a bad choice from a supply point of view. In fact, to form .300 cases all I need to do is fire factory .30-30 ammo in my .300 BRM chamber.

To me, one of the most interesting possibilities for these rifles lies in the .30-40 Krag AI chambering. He's claiming .30-06 velocities with 150 gr. bullets, and darned near with 180s. I can fantasize some really interesting longrange shooting with a short, handy, light, accurate rifle like the 97D offering ballistics on that level.

I also would like to see the extraction issue addressed, and I believe it could be fairly easily and vastly improved simply by adding a slightly longer lever. Then again, the fact that warm loads start to get sticky pretty early on is not really a bad safety feature. Otherwise, dolts like me might be tempted to push the edge just a bit too far...

Pisgah, I appreciate the comments as 97D owners are hard to find. Is yours a production model or a made-to-order model? Are you satisfied with the quality of the wood? I grew up shooting Winchester carbines so I am used to short, light rifles. Although I've always wanted a No. 1 they are heavier than I would like and their accuracy seems so inconsistent.

When I bought mine, they were all made-to-order except for a few they had in stock from cancelled orders. I ordered in July of '01, with an expected 6-month waiting period -- and finally took delivery in January '03! The intervening 18 months were a result of a barrel suppply problem and a diaster in their stockmaking building which ruined a big batch of stocks. (Being a small outfit, they made them one batch at a time as orders came in, so when all the barrels failed to come in there was a holdup, and then all the stocks for the batch got destroyed! :eek: ) They were as nice as they could be the whole time, kept me informed of what was going on and offered numerous times to refund all my money if I didn't want to wait. As a result of the problem, they gave me a free wood upgrade and refunded the price of the scope mount. And yes, I am very pleased with the wood! :D

It's amazing to me how high their prices have risen. At the time, the total cost to me was to have been $800. The wood upgrade and mount would have made it about $900, and what I actually paid was $750. My only regret -- if I'd realized how handy and short it would be I would have opted for a 26" barrel insted of 24".

You're not the first person I've heard say they wish they had a 26" barrel. I asked a sales rep a couple days ago what was the difference between the production 97D and a made-to-order 97D in one of the standard calibers, like 6.5BRM? She hesitated, then said: "Well, I guess you could get a longer barrel." So, two more inches would cost me $300?

You're not the first person I've heard say they wish they had a 24" barrel. I asked a sales rep a couple days ago what was the difference between the production 97D and a made-to-order 97D in one of the standard calibers, like 6.5BRM? She hesitated, then said: "Well, I guess you could get a longer barrel." So, two more inches would cost me $300?

Yes, given their current pricing structure, the standard production 6.5 represents a good value. Unless you just HAD to have a longer barrel or some other option, that $300 would buy a lot of powder, bullets, brass, and primers.

Sunday Creek... I'm new to the board, but had the same problem as you when I went looking for a M94D a couple of years ago. I purchased one of the first "standard" models in 6.5BRM. I have been very pleased with the rifle... looks good, handles great, and shoots very well. Of the several hundred rounds I've shot, I have not had extraction problems. I also have a ruger #1V in .223. Both are great guns, but completely different. The ruger is substantial, has a broad forearm and is longer; the M94D is slender, compact and small. They both make small holes down range!

On-Aim - thanks for replying. At this point, I am thinking of spending the extra money and getting a made-to-order 97D with a 26" stainless barrel. I'm not really sure what the differences, other than barrel length, might be between the standard and the custom, but I do suspect I might like the additional two inches.

What thinkest thou?

Also, is the gun as accurate as advertised? Is the recoil as mild as said? Easy or hard to reload. Can you come to Montana and let me shoot yours? Antelope season is open. ;)

They are as accurate and as comfortable to shoot as claimed. And, if you thoroughly read and follow the loading advice that comes with the rifle, making good ammo is a breeze. Main points -- always full-length resize brass, and work up to your max loads 1/2 gr. at a time. When you feel the least stickiness in extraction, back down that last 1/2 gr. I have never yet found a reasonable load that wouldn't put 3 shots into less than an inch at 100 yards, and the best loads will put 5 into under an inch all day long. Even shooting factory .30-30 loads in my .300 BRM yields groups that hover at just barely over an inch.

Any thoughts on comparisons between the 97D and the T/C Encore?

Thanks for the report. I am a huge single shot fan and have always drooled over the 97D in the EABCO catalog.

Right now I have two Encores, a rifle and a pistol, a Handi-Rifle and numerous single shot shotguns. One of these days I might add a 97D.

To add to the confusion, EABCO now lists a 6.5x.30-30 in their custom calibers. But I thought the 6.5BRM was built on a .30-30 case?

It's formed from .30-30 brass. But the BRM is an "improved" case, with the shoulder moved forward and the angle sharpened. I would assume that the 6.5x.30-30 is not -- perhaps just a .30-30 necked down to 6.5 with no change in the shoulder.

Well, I bit the proverbial bullet and ordered a standard production model 97D in 6.5BRM today. I know Mr. Eben Brown was getting a little tired of me and my questions but I found their catalog to be very confusing and with 35 years of experience in various forms of publishing I really should know a little about layout, content and design. Mostly, it was comments on this thread that convinced me. So, the rifle is on order. As are dies, brass, and some loaded ammunition. But, for the rifle, I will have to wait until the end of January.

It'll be worth the wait! You'll have great fun working up loads for it and once you're done you will have as sweet a little hunting tool as you could want.

I should name this gun the 6.5 Pisgah. Any thoughts on scopes and mounts?