I can't go hunting today, so I seem to be spending a lot of time here instead.

Just curious to find out what some of the experienced bear hunters of the group would recommend for Grizzly and/or Polar Bear. What would be your top 2 choices for distances up to 200 yards? Anyone use a .300 Win Mag, .338 or .375 H&H?

Let's say the maximum distance was 125 yards. Would your choice of calibre be different? How many would recommend nothing less than a .416 Rigby or 458 Lott?

Phil Shoemaker, hunts big Bears for a living and has written that a properly loaded 30-06 is adequate for big Bears. Phil has even used the 30-06 for his back up rifle.. I would agree with that assessment

In my time in Alaska I used Remingtons old 8mm mag. 220 grain Sierra game kings at 3080 fps seemed to do a dandy job.

i'd say 30-06 or better with premium game bullets.

the bullet matters more than the headstamp.

My good friend in Alaska uses a .35 Whelen with premium bullets. He points out that "hunting" bears and protecting yourself from them are two quite different things. While moose hunting this year above the artic circle, he had to go into incredibly brushy area tracking a moose. He said he felt undergunned in a situation where his reaction time would have been a second or two had he been charged. Taking that into consideration .375 would be a good minimum IMO.

the last two I shot one was with a 358 norma mag and the other one was with a 9.3x64 Brenneke both using Woodleigh bullets.

Most of the folks I hunted with liked the 338 Win mag or the 375 H&H. I think that the 338 was one of the most popular guns I saw used in Alaska.

If I was able to go back and do that sort of thing again I'd still use my old 8 mag, but probably stoke it with those fine 250 grain Woodleigh's.

With the new premium bullets, the 300 Winchester magnum has the power to take the largest bears. I would never feel under gunned with my 300.

In brushy country, a 35 Whelen would be my choice along with a 338 Winchester magnum.

It all depends on ones circumstance; if you have a 375 H&H and shoot it well and you are on a dedicated Kodak bear hunt, why not take it? If you have a 338, I think you will be on good ground.

The 375 and 338 would be my choices if they were in my gun rack, but the 300 will kill these big bears cleanly, as will the magnum case .308 or .323 and in heavy cover, the 35 Whelen will offer a bit more knockdown. However why bother with these if there is a 338 Win. Mag. or a 375 H&H in your gun rack?

Charshooter sure hit the nail on the head. With the new bullets on the market the 300 Win mag would be a good performer as would about any cartridge in that class with premium bonded core bullets.

Have to say if I lived in Alaska today and wanted an all around long range rifle that would be good for bear and long range sheep hunting and everything else there I'd probably put a 338 Rem Ultra-mag in the rack.

One thing several bear guides told me when I was in Alaska is they would rather have a hunter that could shoot a 30-06 accurately than one with a 458 Win mag that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

If I was hunting them my '06 with 180-200gr! If they was hunting me 454 Casull Puma 92 with 300-340 gr WFNs!

If I was hunting them my '06 with 180-200gr! If they was hunting me 454 Casull Puma 92 with 300-340 gr WFNs!
This is my 1st post seems like lots of knowlage here.
I have never shot any bear but in the senario mentioned with the MAX shot of 125 yards, my marlin 45?70 with a real good hand load would be real near the top of my list...tj3006

I took a big black bear this september using a .300 win mag and he dropped dead in his tracks instantly using 180grain
speer hot-cor bullets loaded with federal casings. Just an average bullet and an average distance. Roughly 80-90 yards.
It blew a hole the size of a Kiwi out the opposite side.
The reason I bought this .300 win mag was 2 years ago I was hunting moose and after seeing nothing all day hiking, we headed on the 250 mile drive home. I had a .30-06 and my hunting partner had a .270 tikka. We brought a .410 shotgun with us on the back seat in case we saw a few birds on the way. When we were about 100 miles from home, I spotted 3 grouse on the left hand side of the road. We slowed down and I reached for the shotgun. Out of the corner of my eye I spotted something brown go into the trees but didnt get a good enough look to be sure what it was. I instantly thought "MOOSE - excellent!!!!"
I got out of the truck and took off after it into the woods and my hunting partner drove downhill a bit to see if it exited a clearing with me chasing it, then he may get a shot at it.
Well the brush and trees were somewhat thick in places and I couldnt move too quickly. I thought I heard my hunting buddy shouting something but couldnt make out what he was saying as he was about 200 yards or more down the hill. What he was yelling at me was that there was a large grizzly that had exited the trees and came to the clearing we knew was there. It stopped, looked down at the truck, and bolted back in my direction. I heard trees/branches crackling and chambered a round with my remington 7600 pump action in .30-06 as I was sure the moose would be close in seconds.
I had stopped walking and stayed perfectly still trying to judge where he would be coming from. Then I saw the grizzly and he saw me at the same time. He stopped and I just about crapped my pants. I had nosler partition 180 grain bullets and quickly put one in to his front shoulder.(I didnt have much choice with a frontal shot)I could barely make him out in the scope at 3 power. He dropped quickly but got up again in a second and trotted towards me. I quickly pumped another round into him and then a third. He finally stopped coming on the third round.
He was still alive but his wounds were massive and his front shoulder was broken. It took my friend about 30 seconds to get back up to me and I was so shaken up that he killed it with a shot to the head. I wish I had had the .300 win mag and maybe it would have dropped quicker with better penetration. Always be sure to have more gun than you need rather than adequate firepower especially on bear hunts. bears are so tough, that sometimes they just dont die like they are supposed to. If we had not seen each other until 10 - 15 yards away, I would be dead now. He was 925 pounds and I know this because The wildlife officials confiscated the carcass as I didnt have a grizzly tag and this was only self-defense. They weighed him and did inspections for health conditions and etc. He said I was very lucky because it was rather close quarters and If it was anywhere in that brush other than where I was ( it thinned out a bit for about 30-40 yards) I wouldnt have gotten off 1 shot, never mind 3.
I didnt speak more than 5 words for the rest of the trip home. Yes, A .30-06 will kill a polar bear and grizzly but you dont always have the luxury of perfect shot placement, and if you have a run in face to face, one shot into a less than desireable place may be your only chance. Make that one shot shake him to his foundations. A good taxidermist can patch up or sew big exit wounds, but no surgeon can fix a mauling well. Just my 2 cents worth

What makes you believe that a 300 Win Mag would have penetraated beter at close range? Why do you think that a 300 Win Mag would have put the Bear down Quicker, than the 30-06?
Phil Shoemaker posted on another board that he does not see the 300 as a better option when compaired to a 30-06 and that is why he uses the 30-06 instead of a 300 Mag
If you need or want a big gun then IMHO go to a larger Bore Diameter

I own both 300s and 30-06s and I have not seen one noticable better on Large game at close range than the other.. If fact some of my most dramtic kills have been with a 30-06
I would think the fact that you stopped an exited Bear as well as you did points to the effectiveness of the 30-06...

jwp I shot the 308 Norma mag, a twin in performance to the 300 Win mag, for years and found that out to a hundred yards I could tell no difference between it and the 06. Once past that the mag began to shine and especially at ranges past 300 yards.

It was when I moved up to the larger bore 8mm Rem mag that even close range shots started showing a big difference that 220 grain 32 caliber bullet at over 300 fps made.

jwp I shot the 308 Norma mag, a twin in performance to the 300 Win mag, for years and found that out to a hundred yards I could tell no difference between it and the 06. Once past that the mag began to shine and especially at ranges past 300 yards.

It was when I moved up to the larger bore 8mm Rem mag that even close range shots started showing a big difference that 220 grain 32 caliber bullet at over 300 fps made.
I must repeat my earlier comment that I have never killed a bear.
But I have reloaded for about 25 years and I would sugjest that to gain an advantage at short range with a 300 win over and 06 , you should try a 220 grain bullet.
But a .338 win would be a great choice.
If you do a lot of hunting in close cover and seldom get a long range shot, I would repeat my sugjestion of a marlin 45/70. (only if you hand load). Another good sujestion is a 35 whelen. The Whelen will put a 225 grain barnes tripple shock clear through a 600 lb elk end to end.
...tj3006

jwp I shot the 308 Norma mag, a twin in performance to the 300 Win mag, for years and found that out to a hundred yards I could tell no difference between it and the 06. Once past that the mag began to shine and especially at ranges past 300 yards.

It was when I moved up to the larger bore 8mm Rem mag that even close range shots started showing a big difference that 220 grain 32 caliber bullet at over 300 fps made.


Never used am 8mm of any flavor, but a 338 hits noticable harder than any 30 cal in my experience. The 210 and 225 TSX in 338 are simply outstanding and before the TSX the 250 Partition did the job for me with authority....

Phil Shoemaker, hunts big Bears for a living and has written that a properly loaded 30-06 is adequate for big Bears. Phil has even used the 30-06 for his back up rifle.. I would agree with that assessment


The .30-06 takes bear well with ideal shot placements, and hopefully some distance between you and the bear; however Phil Shoemaker went from the grand ol' 06, to a .458, as he stated the .06 was not decisive enough; then went to a 505 Gibbs. He now thinks he has a good stopping rifle for bear. Interesting.

Phil's main backup rifle is the 458 not the 505 Gibbs. Just a year or so ago Phil used the 30-06 again because of the lighter recoil and his hand injury dictated the lighter recoil...Call him and ask him about it, I have.

Phil's main backup rifle is the 458 not the 505 Gibbs. Just a year or so ago Phil used the 30-06 again because of the lighter recoil and his hand injury dictated the lighter recoil...Call him and ask him about it, I have.

That's interesting to know. Just going by what he has said in some of his articles. I always liked that .458. Looks like a real user. Curious about his hand injury. . . :D

He had cut it rather badly, but it is all healed now.. Phill is in Africa for the next 3 weeks visiting his son. Phills son guides in Africa......

If you do a lot of hunting in close cover and seldom get a long range shot, I would repeat my sugjestion of a marlin 45/70. (only if you hand load).

Well, if you don't handload, there always is the Garrett Hammerhead loads for the .45/70. Hey, if some dude can take the big six of dangerous game with the .45/70 and hammerheads, why not a bear?http://www.garrettcartridges.com/lupo2.asp

Jim

He had cut it rather badly, but it is all healed now.. Phill is in Africa for the next 3 weeks visiting his son. Phills son guides in Africa......


Thanks for the update. I have been up in Palmer & Wasilla where he is from. Nice area to hunt. Was used to the Moose in Montana where I used to live, up in Lincoln county. When I saw my first Alaskan Moose I thought I was dreaming. Wanted to move up there right then. :D

The FBI wrote a pretty good piece on cartridges, knock down power, etc.. They are talking about humans but the same principals apply to humans. Comments I remember include the observations that bullet impact will knock down the target is a myth - the impact at both ends of the gun is about the same. Conservation of momentum (a principle of physics) tells us this (my observation, not the FBI's). Another significant observation in the FBI article is that the human (animal) stops moving - dies - either as a result of enough blood loss that its body shuts down or due to massive injury to the central nervous system (brain or spine). Dying from blood loss is never instantaneous. The last item I remember from the article is that people stopping after something other than a central nervous system hit is a function of how they react. If they stare at the damage to their body and concentrate on that, they stop. If they are crazy or enraged or on drugs or something, they can keep going for minutes. The FBI selects cartridges and rounds that will give a minimum 12 inches of penetration (so they can reach vitals with bad angle hits).

My observations. Big holes bleed faster than small holes. Holes in both sides bleeds more than only one side. If you do not have enough penetration to hit something vital, the animal will die a slow painfull death - the worst possible outcome. If you can't place the bullet accurately it doesn't matter what you shoot.

I do not know how much is enough for a bear, all I know is what I read which is consistent with the other thoughts expressed here. If I used my 30-06 I would use a Nosler Partition or maybe a Barnes X-bullet for maximum penetration.

Jim

I think you have to consider the animal being hunted and in what vital area that animal is being hit. Just like another posted topic D R T and deer, many animals are capable of amazing feats after being hit in major vital areas. I think just like the 5 most dangerous your shot should try to break both shoulders and when he goes down you hit him again for good measure.
I realise there is also quite a difference in hunting an animal and being hunted. If I were being hunted I would make every attempt at putting my bullet in the brain or spine of the attacking animal and it wouldn't matter what the caliber. A charging bear isn't giving you any alternative and your one and only shot better be for keeps

I think the 300 grain Partition HGs would be pretty decisive delivered from a .44 Mag semi auto carbine.