Hello everyone. I just bought this old rifle and have no idea what it's worth or what it even is. It's an old Winchester Model 1907 S.L. that was manufactured in 1907--says on the barrel. It is chambered in .351 which I don't know is even sold anymore. Have any of you heard about this gun? This one is well-worn and the stock is begging me to refinish it. Can you tell me anything about it (the model)? What's the history behind this model and can I still buy ammo for it?

Thanks,
gutdeere

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee278/gutdeere/1907004.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee278/gutdeere/1907002.jpg

Those two links are a couple pictures...^^

I believe Ribbonstone has one.

Here's a thread with some info on the 351: http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=27265

Dang! I spent 20 minutes on a reply and it didn't get posted!

Your Model 1907 was an improvement over the 1905 that allowed for a higher velocity round than the .35 and .32 in the 1905. The .351 Winchester Self Loading cartridge was the only round the 1907 was chambered for. The rifle was intended to be for hunting deer sized game and was quite capable of that but it found more favor with law enforcement. They were quite popular during the gang wars of the 1920's because they could penetrate automobiles and body armour of the era. The guns were made until 1958 and the serial numbers went up to 59,000. That is believed to be the estimated total production number. (The Winchester Handbook by George Madis)

The Winchester .351 Self-Loading cartridge is obsolete. I have a full box from the 20's in my collection and they cost me $20 years ago.

I did not see a magazine in your photo. Hope you have it.

I believe Ribbonstone has one.

Here's a thread with some info on the 351: http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=27265


Had one...and a 1910 in .401...are no more, in a landfill somewhere.

For whatever reasons, the .351WSL became a favorite prison guard gun in some areas. The gun itself stayed in production until the late 1940's to middle or late 1950's (no one knows for sure...suspect they put together some rifles from old recievers in the last years for prison orders). A lot of these guns got carried around the prison walls a whole lot and hardly ever fired (my old gun was marked for Angola..the La. state prison and had a 10 round magazine).

Ammo was in production until at least 1978. I've made cases on a lathe from .357max. cases...the case is a long semi-rimmed straight case; it looks like a .38super stretched out. Can find ammo at some of the speciality/custom loaders (pricy).

You supply the serial number (like 45XXX or 52XXX) and I'll find the date of manufacture.
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Do NOT belive all the BS written about how weak the round is...any .357mag. handgunner would be happy to get 180gr. of lead out at over 1800fps..the .351 will do this...which puts it on an even level with the .357max.

... was manufactured in 1907--says on the barrel.

It may have been made in 1907, but I doubt that's exactly what it says on the barrel. I would imagine it says "Model 1907". That's the year that model came out.

However, I find it interesting that they did make over 8,000 that first year. Usually when a new gun came out back then, it took a while to get production going full swing. With a completely new model gun, you often see first year production at a few dozen guns, second year of a few hundred, then they really get going about year three. But I'm guessing the fact that the Model 1907 was based on the Model 1905 made it a quick changeover.

Anyway- the serial number is the best indicator of year made. First year M1907s have serial numbers from 1 to 8657. They made them until around 1957, with the last s/n being 58,456 (they think).

If you can give us an approximate serial number (like "mid 44,000s"...some people don't like to give exact serial numbers) we can look it up for you and see when it was made.

... and the stock is begging me to refinish it.


That usually does more harm than good, as far as potential value goes. Like anything old- be it guns, furniture, or cars- it's often best to preserve what is there rather than to restore. Unless it's just crumbling and falling apart, I'd leave it alone.
From the pictures, it looks a little ragged, but nothing too bad. It's about what I'd expect from a 50+ year old gun that was meant to be used and not looked at- and I'd guess most were used and used hard.
You may not ever plan on parting with it so may not care about resale value, but you never know- your great grandkids might.

Here's an interesting little piece about a Texas Ranger's 1907, and 1907s in general that you may like:
http://www.texasranger.org/dispatch/13/pages/Winchester-07.htm

Wow guys, thanks for all the info. You've been awesome. ribbonstone, thanks for that offer. The serial number is 31XXX, and I'm not worried about giving it all out. =) Also, yes I do have two magazines. They came with the rifle. Okay, so the .351 is obsolete? fortunately I have 300+ rounds in "collectable-age" boxes. Vintage ammo boxes/etc. I think the boxes alone are worth a good deal of money because of their age and the fact that they are in absolutely perfect condition. are my suspicions probably correct?

The forearm is cracked on both sides.. completely through. If I tugged hard with my fingernails, I'd break it. =\ The wood's about had it. As far as the age goes, the seller was a 55 year-old. He said his Great-Grandfather bought it new which puts the rifle's age back about.... 70-90 years? I don't think I'll ever part with it. it's solid as a tank and has tons of life left. Tonight I'm gonna oil it up and get the parts moving smoothly. thanks a ton for the advice. I really appreciate it.

Your rifle was made in 1915.
http://oldguns.net/sn_php/winmods.htm

As there's no need of leaving your serial number up now, I'll XXX it. I make a fair bit of pocket change thanks to other people's lack of computer security. It's amazing what can happen when three teenagers are on a computer with an out-of date anti-virus program. :D


Bye
Jack

gutdeere, I would personally keep any complete boxes of vintage ammo intact and not shoot it. Complete boxes of ammo, metalic and shot, from the 50's & before is collectable. Yes boxes alone are collected but boxes of matched ammo (what was originally packed, not filler stuff) is worth much more. You might try www.buffaloarms.com to see if they make new ammo for the .351. They specialize in obsolete ammo. If you have more ammo than you have boxes, then I'd consider shooting it. Loose rounds are not as valuable as are boxes.

I have repaired cracked wood like you have with epoxy glue. Spread the crack with toothpics and apply the glue with qtips then wrap tight till it sets. Clean off excess glue with vinager and wrap wax paper around the repair before you wrap it up (I use surgical tubbing). Also, I would want the wood finish to look refurbished, not refinished (new)

I just went to www.ows-ammo.com and they do have 351 sl in there, 170 grain plated lead boxes of 20 for 49.95. They're a bit expensive but if you want to shoot sometimes you have to pay for it. When I bought my 7.65 argentine the only company that loaded for them that I could get was Norma and they were 32.00 dollars a box and that was 20 years ago.

Some more advice:

1. NEVER EVER take the rifle completely apart!!!! NEVER!

Can take the gun into it's big componets in a normal break down, but never try to take apart the trigger unit or the recoil spring/breech bolt assembly. Even if you have the special tooling, getting one back together is so frustrating, you'll never willingly do it again.

It is a break -down rifle...that's what the knurled nut at the back of the reciever is for...and broken down into those two big chunks, can get at everything you will ever have to clean or lube.

2. The fore end is a hollow shell, and they crack rather often. You do not want to try and replace it. Treat that part gently.

3. It runs on a blow-back action, no locking. that's why there is a great big weight running back and forth in that hollow fore end (that weight is an extension of the breech block).

Blowback actions really resent ammo that is loaded too hot...tend to break things and damage the shooter. Under loaded ammo will simply not cycle the action. Is a narrow band of acceptable loadings, ones that cycle the action but don't beat it to death.