How does a person decide which powder is best for a front stuffer? Is there a clear preference when shooting groups or do I need to look for other signs?

Also when working up loads does a person try first to find a bullet the barrel likes and then work on the powder?

I seem to be running in circles and not making any headway with load development. So far I've only tried Pyrodex RS but have tried 4 different types of bullets in various weights and with different charges. Best groups (patterns) are in the 10" range at 100yds. I have mounted a scope to reduce sighting errors.

The rifle is a Traditions .50 inline w/ 209 primers and 23" 1/28 barrel.

thats a loaded question. have shot several different powders(black and substitute) and although i`ve got better groups with some than others, 10" at 100 yds. doesn`t sound like a powder problem to me. may be bullet weight to powder charge problem. technique of loading problem, hard to say without more info. i for one have been guilty of overcharging different bullets trying to gets yardage but seems as though every rifle and bullet has that "sweet spot", once you go passed that, accuracy suffers quickly. what grn bullet and what charge of powder are you using? whats your loading sequence i.e. are you swabbing after shot,seating load with same pressure each time?

Agree with ezhunter...best of 10" at 100 point to some problem(s) other than powder choice.

As for powder: Pyrodex and in-lines are usually a good match.

Thanks for replying. I'll give more info here which may help you troubleshoot my problem.

First off when shooting I was patching out the barrel when it started to be difficult starting bullets, usually after the third or forth shot. I then rethought the process. Since this is a hunting rifle and would be shooting with a clean cold barrel, that's what I've been doing while working up a load. Even though it takes more time, I brush and patch clean using Wonderlube 1000 before every shot. At the end of the day the rifle is disassembled and cleaned with soap and hot water. Then a patch lightly lubed with Wonderlube is run through the barrel.

Loading procedure; powder is dumped out of the flask into a measure. I tap the measure three times with my finger and strike off the excess with the funnel top of the measure. The powder is slowly dumped into the barrel and the measure is lightly tapped to make sure all the powder is out. Using the heel of my hand I thump the right side of the barrel twice to settle the powder. If using a lubed wad (3/8" thick)that is pressed firmly on top of the charge. Then the bullet is started and pushed into place. When seating the bullet I press as hard as I can with the ramrod in the palm of my hand. I've used powder charges starting at 60 grains and work in 10gr. increaments up to 100 grains, so far haven't loaded above 100 although this rifle can be loaded as heavy as 150 grs.

Bullets I've used has been;
240 gr lead HP .44 Cheap Shot sabots.
300 gr jacketed HP .44 Nosler sabots.
295 gr Powerbelt AT (poorest average accuracy)
350 gr Buffalo HB/HP (these so far have seemed the best when used with a wad and the hollow base filled with crisco)

Thanks

I've always wondered what kind of groups a guy could get out of an inline if they made one for patched round ball. By that size of a group you cannot hit an 8 inch paper plate each time. I've seen that type of groups many times. Pyrodex has always been a good performer for me, though I will say not as good as black for general all around target work offhand. Pyrodex don't ignite as fast as black thereby giving you a slower lock time. Shouldn't make much difference off a bench but in the field it might. You say bullets, what kind? Saboted? Lubed lead? Sometimes if you go to the P or 3f equivelent it works better. I would try 777 but back off on the charges a little, as I call that stuff black powder on steroids. Just an example, same vol loading in my .54 cal Lyman GPR with PRB 60gns it shoots several inches higher at 50yds than 2f black powder. When I back off to 50gns it's closer to the point of aim. Though most folks get in lines to shoot 100 to 150gns in pellets, or loose powder, a 50 cal usually shoots better with 80gns or less. Face a muzzle loading rifle is not a 400 yd gun and velocities on any .50 cal excepting a .50 Browning is going to be slow but 1186 fps is the speed of sound and there is nothing on this earth with blood in it that is considered quarry that can move that fast.

Monty, How old are you, and are you using a non-scoped rifle? I'm 56, and about 8 or 10 years ago I started getting inconsistency (big groups) when all other loading details were strictly adhered to. Anything over 40 or 50 yards was fairly wild. It was my eyes. For starters, I'd suggest you do as you are presently doing regarding your cleaning and loading technique, while bringing the target into 25 or 40 yards. If things are good at the closer range, and continue to unravel at longer range, and you are using peep or open sights, then that may be your problem. If you are using a scope, make sure there's nothing wrong with it or the mounts. good luck

Monty, How old are you, and are you using a non-scoped rifle? If you are using a scope, make sure there's nothing wrong with it or the mounts. good luck

My eyes aren't what they used to be and was never fantastic. I have a K-3 Weaver from my 30-06 mounted. The scope is a proven quantity, it's served faithfully on the '06 for 25 years and always held zero. But it's still a possibility I'll check out. The bases fit well and the mounting screws were lock-tited in place before torquing. Also lapped the rings before mounting the scope.

You say bullets, what kind? Saboted? Lubed lead?

Though most folks get in lines to shoot 100 to 150gns in pellets, or loose powder, a 50 cal usually shoots better with 80gns or less.

Bullets I've used has been;
240 gr lead HP .44 Cheap Shot sabots.
300 gr jacketed HP .44 Nosler sabots.
295 gr Powerbelt AT (poorest average accuracy)
350 gr Buffalo HB/HP (these so far have seemed the best when used with a wad and the hollow base filled with crisco)

I've used powder charges starting at 60 grains and work in 10gr. increaments up to 100 grains, so far haven't loaded above 100 although this rifle can be loaded as heavy as 150 grs.

Try cleaning between shots without any lube...work up to a 130gr charge with some Shockwaves and see what happens. All the inlines I've shot have done at least OK (3" or better) using this setup when the favored charge is found.

Try cleaning between shots without any lube...work up to a 130gr charge with some Shockwaves and see what happens. All the inlines I've shot have done at least OK (3" or better) using this setup when the favored charge is found.

Thanks for the suggestion. Is there a particular weight Shockwave that seems to work best in a 1/28 barrel?

A friend who's been hunting black powder a few years was laughing at me for trying the Buffalo bullets. Asked if I was hunting elephants.:D

montyf, you may also want to try a .45 saboted bullet. i`ve personnally have not shot the traditions 50 but my brother has and he shoots a .45 saboted hornady sst in 250 grn. with 120 grns. pyrodex loose powder and says he`s shooting 21/2" groups at 150yds. also as i think somebody else suggested, if your shooting a saboted bullet, i might try doing away with the lube and see what happens. arn`t ml`s fun.:)

What I do is use triple 7 loose powder, I have found I get my best results with triple 7 and the powder lets me tailor my loads. I start at a lower powder charge 80 gr. I then try a bunch of different bullets. I find the one that gives me the best accuracy. Then I start increasing the powder charge and try to get the best accuracy for that bullet. I have had great success with this load development.
I have worked up loads for a bunch of my buddies and found what shoots best in there muzzleloader's. Most of my buddies shoot Encore's or Omega's. I have moved on to the smokeless Savage now.

Monty, I'd use the 250s. They've never let me down, and shoot well in my 1:28 Omega and Kodiak. I know other guys that use them, too, and they always seem to work :). I know for a fact they work to 200 yards, as my last mule deer was about that distance with a 130gr charge pyro RS.

Thanks to all that offered suggestions. I appreciate each of you taking time to help out.

Have another question, is there bullets to stay away from when taking deer? I've read some not so flattering comments about Powerbelts, which is no big deal since they didn't shoot well in my rifle.

If you use powerbelts, don't shoot a very heavy charge. It's basically what shoots well in your rifle...most any ML bullet will kill a deer if you hit it in the right spot.

rem 700 - Does the heavy charge with a powerbelt have negative affects on terminal ballistics? I've gotten excellent grouping with 195 grain aerotip pb over 110 grains of 777 in my .45 cal CVA Kodiak. Am I in trouble if I hit a deer in a rib, for example, with this combo? Thanks

Monty, I'd use the 250s. They've never let me down, and shoot well in my 1:28 Omega and Kodiak. I know other guys that use them, too, and they always seem to work :). I know for a fact they work to 200 yards, as my last mule deer was about that distance with a 130gr charge pyro RS.

I picked up a package of shockwave 250's. While I was at Scheels spending my Christmas gift certificates (love those kids) also picked up Hornady 250 grain SST/ML's and 350 gr.TC Maxi-Hunters. Guess I have more things to try... somethings gotta work.

Been out hunting twice but have a self imposed limit of 40 yards. Had a doe with a fawn and later a 4 point buck (8 point to you easterners) came following the doe's trail, both within range but passed. Have double doe tags and the month of January to hunt. Guess that muzzeloader is doing what i wanted it to.... extending my hunting season by about 2 months.

If you use powerbelts, don't shoot a very heavy charge. It's basically what shoots well in your rifle...most any ML bullet will kill a deer if you hit it in the right spot.

I haven't had time to take the rifle out for further testing. However I was doing some measuring. In the Powerbelt literature it says they are sized for .001 bore clearance. I checked my powerbelts and they measure .4985 and my bore is .5022... so it's pushing .004 clearance. I'm wondering if that could be the accuracy problem I'm having with Powerbelts? Suppose even with the 100gr charge of Pyrodex it's not upsetting the bullet enough to tighten in the bore or fill the grooves?

I like to compare the powerbelts to ballistic silver tips in rifles...get a light one going too fast, too close, and they're likely to shatter.

I think the bore clearance for your powerbelts is probably because of the brand of your rifle...CVAs and Winchesters were built with the powerbelt in mind, others won't take to them very well. It could be the reason for accuracy problems.

rem700 - Thanks. I've ordered some HP Exteme Elites (260 gr.) and some 195 grain Dead Centers from Precision. I'll be giving them a workout soon I hope. Guy

Mainer, I think you will like both bullets for accuracy...both are known for it and I've had good accuracy from PR (haven't tried the EE). Of course, one's rifle will ultimately be the judge of that but they're usually good shooters. I recently used an all-lead 240gr HP, the T/C Cheap Shot on a mule deer buck in my 50 cal Omega. I wasn't sure of an all-lead bullet for an inline rifle with a strong charge, but on another forum I saw a guy have great results from them. So I decided to load up with them this year and got great performance and wouldn't hesitate to use them again. They might be my go-to bullet for muzzleloading season in my inline rifles from here out. Shockwaves are still my preferred bullet for rifle season -- the higher BC gives for better long range flight, but noting I can use only open sights in ML season and my range is limited, I might stick with all-lead bullets there.

start wloose at 90 grains volume annd increase 5 grains every 3 shots. Use 1 wet patch both sides and 1 dry patch both sides between each shot. When you are touching at 25 yard go to 50 same procedure out to 100 yards. You shouldn't have to go past 110 grains volume 7 FFF. If you hit say at 100 grains , and shoot a touching pattern, go to 105 grains and see if th pattern holds. At that juncture your are simply increasing velocity while maintaing accuracy. Sometimes we push these inline bullets to hard and they don't pattern consistently. e consistent in shooting technique on the bench. Good Luck the shockwaves 250 grain w/ ezglide sabots work great. So should most of your bullets listed.