Okay, time to plan my dream hunt before I get too old to be able to go. I have always wanted to go to Africa on a DG hunt. Now I can afford it and I am going. Any recommendations on either Cape Buffalo or Leopard for a first DG hunt? I have always wanted to hunt either of these. Also, which countries should I focus on?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Dan

Can't dream your dream hunt for you, but it seems the odds would favor buffalo. After all there are a lot more of them.

Hope you make it and good luck if you do.

hi oneeye66,
does your user name imply a physical impairment? if so, spell this out when researching as leopard hunts are conducted at night in some countries. alot of guys like to combine leopard and buffalo, which can make sense as a considerable amount of time is spent driving around aquiring and checking leopard baits and depending on where you are, anything can happen on the way.
where you go depends on how much you want to spend! Bots., Tz., Zambia and Mozam. allmost allways have considerable extra expenses like charters, concession fees, etc, etc, etc. Zim and Namibia are more affordable, but i have no first hand experience in Namibia. there are good numbers of both species in all these countries.
where ever you decide to go, talk to a few outfitters from each country, get references and call them! if you can hook up with a good one, you'll have the time of your life! i can put you in touch with a couple if you like.
quick thought, my experience is 375 caliber is marginal for buffalo.

hi oneeye66,
does your user name imply a physical impairment? if so, spell this out when researching as leopard hunts are conducted at night in some countries. alot of guys like to combine leopard and buffalo, which can make sense as a considerable amount of time is spent driving around aquiring and checking leopard baits and depending on where you are, anything can happen on the way.
where you go depends on how much you want to spend! Bots., Tz., Zambia and Mozam. allmost allways have considerable extra expenses like charters, concession fees, etc, etc, etc. Zim and Namibia are more affordable, but i have no first hand experience in Namibia. there are good numbers of both species in all these countries.
where ever you decide to go, talk to a few outfitters from each country, get references and call them! if you can hook up with a good one, you'll have the time of your life! i can put you in touch with a couple if you like.
quick thought, my experience is 375 caliber is marginal for buffalo.

Thanks for the great advice. Yes, my handle is correct, as I only have one eye. I lost my left eye in a bowhunting accident (shot by another bowhunter at dark) back in 1983. While I wear eyeglasses, I have better than 20/20 (20/15) vision in my remaining eye. I also have excellent low light vision, so I am not concerned with that. With that said, I will definitely share this with any PH I consider.

Please do send me any PH recommendations you. If you can PM or e-mail if you prefer. My e-mail address is dlfrein@comcast.net

Thanks again.

Dan

416 wud be a better choice as a minimum ..

Sending you an email on a PH I know in Taz..

Dan,
Hope you get to make the trip. Having hunted and shot both species you mentioned, along with a lot of others...I'll share my thoughts, since you asked:
MOST of the time, Leopard hunting is about as exciting as target shooting. Lottsa shooting from blinds, over bait. The only time it gets REALLY exciting is if everything has gone wrong, and a wounded cat has to be sorted out from the thick stuff...and NOBODY wants that experience. Hunting Buffalo on the other hand will be done on your own two feet, tracking, stalking, and finally taking what you hope will be...the one shot to drop your Buff. If he runs off with a bullet in him...well, now you have a problem...sorting out a wounded Buff will get your heart going just as much as that cat I mentioned. My preference is probably pretty obvious by now...I'll shoot another cat if it's a problem and needs to be shot. I'll gladly go Buffalo hunting every chance I get.
Cheers,
Don

a wounded leopard or buff is like the old fighter pilot story of " hours of boredom intersperesed with thirty seconds of sheer terror "

A wounded buff is serious buisness if ya hafta go lookin for him ..

A cat , odds are good the PH will go in with buckshot and leave you behind ..

For a first DG hunt I would favour Buffalo as being the more stimulating, interspersed with plains game. A lot of people go Leopard hunting and spend 14 days sitting in a blind without ever getting a shot.

Tanzania remains top spot for Buffalo although it is probably the most expensive. I think Zambia is a good bet: the trophies aren't quite as large as Tanzania although they are not far off so you should pick up something nice. Zimbabwe offers good cheap hunting as long as you accept the politically unstability and all the problems that could come with that.

...If you're planning on going, go for both of them. Buffalo in the daylight hours, and leopard dusk to dark.
Life's short...hunt hard!

South Africa can be difficult for leopard as they limit the amount of permits. The last I heard they issued 110 for last year.

Kudu40

Buffalo are mean critters dude, so use plenty of gun, preferably a lever or bolt gun.

Leopards are very tenaciuos and wiry vermin..... I've had good experience with a marlin 1895 in 45-70 handloads against 'em.
quick handlin', reeaall fast cycle, and it hits like a semi.

I am going with those saying "Buffalo" first. Guido above, pretty much lays out my reasoning so I won't be redundant.

The only thing I would add, go on a real safari. Not a ranch hunt. I would go for Botswana (first choice) and Tanzania (second choice). Tanzania has the best buffalo but nothing beats the Okavanga Delta for being way "out there" and away from people. Masailand in Tanzania, where the best Buffalo are is just way too covered up with people. My first hunt was a buffalo hunt in Botswana and I wouldn't change a thing.

Just my .02.

Sir;
Peter Capstick (now gone) rated wounded leopard as Africas most dangerous game.
Of course, you don't want to wound one - he said "they are a brown streak at close range (wounded of course!)
HNB

My first African trip was for cape buff, (the only trip so far) but I will go back in about two or three more years. The best rifle you can shoot is one you can shoot accurately and the recoil does not frighten you.. I brought the 375 & 470 NE, the buff was shot with the 375, it was walking to me @ 100 yards, shot him straight on and the bullet, North Fork 300 gr soft penetrated to the back of his stomach. He went all of 12 yards.

Always remember, IT IS NOT HOW BIG THE GUN SHOOT IS, BUT HOW YOU PLACE A WELL CONSTRUCTED BULLET Bell killed over 1000 elephant with his 7mm.

You shoutl find sosmeone who has 375 & 416 and shoot them both I don't like muzzle breaks. If you like the then the 416 should be easy to shoot.

I have 470 Ne Merkel and 450-400Heym, the heym is brand new, both of these are double rifles. My next trip to Africa will be when my son completes graduate school in a few years. I will probably bring my 416 rem, built on Montana action and my cz 375 HH with brockman stock.

Remember, there are minimum calibers for different countries. I feel that for a first big bore the 375 is perfect.

My PH culled elephants for the government and they used 30-06 with 220 gr solids As long as they did their part they had no problems/

I am not advocating using small bores for dangerous game, but a 375 will kill anything walking.

The Ph I hunted with brought Donald Trump Jr and Jay Cochrain ( a race car driver & sporting goods store owner) both of them shot their buff with double rifles, both of them made wounding shots and lost their buffs. They drew blood so they had to pay their triphy fees. They both also shot game at longer ranges with their scope sighted rifles. It is all in where the bullet goes.

Hello,
The above advice regarding a .375 H&H is sound. One fellow also wrote somewhere here in this forum that; in his experience the .375 is minimal for African buffalo and something like a .416 will be better, presumeably if you can handle the recoil. I agree with that also. Many African countries require the .375 H&H as the minimum legal cartridge for dangerous game.

Are you a hand loader? If you are, you can start out with your cannon loaded down a bit until you get used to it and then gradually increase the load until you reach the level you want for your intended animals. One nice thing about the .375 is that it shoots plenty flat and is typically very accurate for the numerous smaller species you are likely to want to hunt while you are there. Recoil is about twice that of a .30-06.

A great way to go about this type of thing is to spend a few days hunting various antelope, warthog and such with your buffalo rifle. Then, after that live "practice" you should be a better performer with said rifle. Incidentally, a 4x scope is more than enough for 99% of African hunting in general. These giant "Hubble Telescope" things that have become so in vogue here lately will cut your face during recoil because they typically do not have much eye relief. Likewise, sooner or later you will have it turned way up when the critter of a lifetime appears at bayonette distance and your chance will be lost as he bounds away during your attempts to turn the darn thing down enough to get a sight picture. If you must use a variable scope for some reason, just get one of these 1 to 4x or 1.5 to 5x or similar. That way even when it is turned all the way up, it is still somewhat OK at close range in a pinch.

Personally, I do not endorse any of these newer hotrod .375s, like the .378 Weatherby, .375 ultra-Mag and so forth. Recoil is so viscious that I find even with their 400 grain and 500 grain projectiles respectively, the .416 Rigby and .458 Lott are easier to handle, (not that they have light recoil by any means). It is just that they operate at lower chamber pressure and I will guess probably have a slower recoil because it is not as brutal as the above mentioned hotrod cartridges.
If I were hunting quite a diversified bag of antelope, wild swine and the buffalo was but one animal, at the end of my trip (and I preferred bolt actions), I'd want a Mauser or Pre-64 Winchester Model-70 in .375 H&H. I'd shoot everything with 300 grain A-frames or some other premium bonded core 300 grainers. That way when the moment of truth presented itself, (the buffalo of a lifetime), I'd be reasonably sure to hit him "spot on," as they say over there.

If I were choosing a bolt action rifle primarily for buffalo but with only three or four antelope etc in my plans, I'd want a Mauser in .416 Rigby (The Remington .416 has somewhat higher chamber pressure than the Rigby does and Mausers in the Remington caliber are hard to find).

If I were choosing a bolt action rifle for buffalo only, I'd want a Mauser in .458 Lott and 500 grain bullets, Swift A-frame is again a better than good premium bonded core soft for this cartridge. For "solids" (most PHs want you to make any shot after your first one with solids only on buffalo, regardless of your caliber) almost any brand will do however some are slightly better than others, especially if you do not push them too fast (another jab at the hotrods).

Your guide will likely respect you a bit more if you show up with a Mauser or Pre-64 type Model-70 Winchester (which is nothing more than a very slightly modified Mauser). If however, you bring a Remington Model 700, or Sako, or some other push feed type bolt action, even for buffalo, it will be OK because your PH will be right there with his tried and true stopping rifle in case you get a fired shell stuck in the chamber or some such. If nothing else, the Rem-700 is usually very accurate for tricky shots at smaller antelope and such. That basic action concept (then it was the Models 721 and 722) was designed by a benchrest champion shooter just after WW-II for Remington to build hunting and target rifles around by the way. I no longer have any of them but I have owned several and all were nail drivers. I only had one fail to eject. It was a 6mm, while varmint hunting in Nevada, 30 something years ago, hardly a dangerous game scenario.

I cannot stress this enough; Practice, practice, practice from field positions and then practice some more (not so much from the bench with sandbags, bipod, etc). In Africa you will likely be shooting from "sticks" as seen in any African hunting video. Buy or make a set and use them for at least a few hundred shots before going over. Also, buy and watch several times the DVD from Kevin Robertson called "The Perfect Shot" or, buy and read several times his book by the same title, or both. He even has a smaller version of the book that will fit into your pocket, very handy. All worth every penny if you are serious about African hunting.

Do not listen to people who have never been to Africa, they are full of well meaning but largely untried ideas, especially when it comes to rifles, cartridges and choice of projectiles. One of my "favorite" ideas is from these characters who tell us they'd use a lever action Marlin .45-70 for African buffalo. If that is even legal in any African country, your PH will wonder why you do not just want to use a .375 H&H, such as has been the normal minimum for thousands and thousands of buffalo taken there. Besides, you will be sorry when you see yourself posing with some "cowboy gun" in your African photos.

I'm waiting for someone to suggest for my next trip over that; I wear a sailor suit and have a harpoon in my hand. Another one I love is when they quote stats on a guy named Bell who shot over 1,000 elephants with a 7x57 Mauser, .303 British, 6.5x54 Maanlicher and .318 Westley-Richards (actually most of these characters don't know of other than the 7x57 Bell used. In his own book, he wrote that he also had handy a heavy caliber SxS for wounded elephants. He is vague regarding how many he wounded with his little rifles. You can probably kill a whale with a .17 rim fire if you hit him just right, however, there are better tools available. Besides, what does it prove? That you are a good shot? Anyone who knows you should realise that long before you ever make it to Africa, especially if it is true. Thankfully it is no longer legal to shoot heavy African game with peewee rifles, at least not in any country I know of there. If nothing else, it is not fair to the animal to unduly risk wounding him. Which ever PH you end up choosing will be more than happy to recommend equipment to you, including firearms related issues. Listen to him, he knows the truth from experience.

Best of luck with your African adventure.
Ard.

As one who frequents Africa and knowing of conditions there, I have almost lost any love for hunting. Some of the countries ,Zimbabwe for one, are increasingly devoid of ANY animals.
Most in South Africa are a no brainer, Pay your American Dollars and shoot what ever you want, its not going anywhere, the area is fenced.
Since your not going to personally eat the animal, a Buffalo is probably the best bet as the meat can be used to feed those families on the Game Farm. Also good for food are the Antelope variety (Gazelle, Springbok, Kudu etc) aand of course a good Bushpig or Warthog hunt will give you a run for your money, much cheaper.
Cats are becoming scarce in the world and I personally have a problem with losing more just for a photo shoot. Even worse for me is the loss of an Elephant or Giraffe.
Just sort of one of those "If I dont eat it, I dont shoot it" guys. Im sure I will get some flack for my opinion, but I have been around a bit and can handle the discussion.

As one who frequents Africa and knowing of conditions there, I have almost lost any love for hunting...

Cats are becoming scarce in the world and I personally have a problem with losing more just for a photo shoot. Even worse for me is the loss of an Elephant or Giraffe.

Just sort of one of those "If I dont eat it, I dont shoot it" guys. Im sure I will get some flack for my opinion, but I have been around a bit and can handle the discussion.

:D
Well, you obviously came to argue. Not that much to disagree with as far as your points go. I would disagree with your conclusions somewhat.

I've shot a nice bull elephant. It's not something I particularly need to do again. I'm not going to stand up and say that nobody else should be able to do that.

Until and unless the rampant human overpopulation issues in Africa are dealt with there's not much future for game in countries like Zimbabwe. Botswana, I think will continue to thrive. These would be dichotomies of course.

Elephant are wicked hard on their environment. As their environ shrinks, they themselves destroy what's left. Culling is the only solution to maintain these herds in numbers that can survive.

Look at the culling being done in the parks nowadays. This is done by park rangers. Why not sell tags. Look at the governor's tags for Rocky Mountain Wild Sheep. These go for hundreds of thousands apiece. The money then goes into sheep habitat.

Why couldn't the same principle be allowed in Africa. You are quite right about feeding the locals. My elephant fed an awful lot of people. Why not have that added money.

Hunting isn't the problem. It's a solution.

I'm not going to stand up and say that nobody else should be able to do that.


Understand totally, maybe I just should have said I couldnt do it. I also understand culling. I prefer that they be moved to parts of the continent that have none. Problem is that the humans who occupy that part are busy killing each other so animals are a novelty. Besides the expense of moving them.


Lived most of my life in California. Used to hunt walking distance from my home. Now I could not even hunt in that area and thank god I no longer live in California. Thats another story.

I actually did not come to argue, prefer to discuss......

P.S. Beautiful Collection. Dont part with them if you can avoid it.

I actually did not come to argue, prefer to discuss......


That's okay. I was tongue in cheek but I expect you will hear from the SA contingent.

I'm pretty much the same way. The hunting style down there doesn't really ring my bell. The lions shot down there sure enough seem to have awesome manes. Too bad they aren't eligible for the record books. (see this is me with tongue in cheek).

On the other hand I have a good friend who has all the fun he can stand bowhunting waterholes on some huge ranches. There's certainly nothing unsporting about it in any shape for or fashion.

To each his own. To me a safari was the sort of thing I read about as a child. They didn't include fences.

Thanks, guys, for keeping it civil.

A prime example how we can respect the postings of others, but still disagree.

hey oneeye66,
did you ever go on a hunt? tell us about it.

By all means; do NOT use Savage Safari's. They may be operating under a new name which I will try to get. They have changed names at least three times. The head honcho is Philly VanVleck out of Klerksdorp SA. They are a fly by night operation and you will be disappointed.

Kudu40

You might like to visit this site at http://www.africahunting.com where you'll find lot of advices about all aspects of African hunting safaris.

South Africa is a good destination....please visit Zimbabwe and you will not forget your trip..mainly the Whange area and Gonarezhou..get a permit from the wildlife guys and whoa...!!..good bufallo meat there...don't worry bout the politics...it don't affect the wonderful braai you will have.

Zimbabwe is my choice, as well. All other considerations aside, Buffalo should be your target. A leopard will evade you, almost every time. A Buffalo is the most dangerous thing you can face, in my opinion... and it seldom runs away. Given even a slight chance, it will kill you. While .45-70 is my favorite here in North America, I am partial to a .458 bolt or a .470 Nitro double in the Bush, looking for big game. I like 7mm for antelope. It's been a great many years...

Waisy,
I happen to have a couple of Zim dollars, can you get me a Coke??:D
Zim has driven away all but the heartiest of travelers for sure. Closest I will get is an overflight on the way to Zambia. Sad as we remember what Zim used to be to the rest of the world.

I agree with you Gatvol...
I sure remember the first time i visited Gonarezhou and was my first time out on my own with a .45 and was confronted by a warthog..i urinated myself and couldn't even hold the gun..i misfired a shot and it trotted off but i had already lost the guts....there many tourist surely and miss that ..they have been culling elephants for the soldiers lately and in the barracks it's either you find pork or elephant...meat of choice...!!!! so where you now Gatvol?

I think the African Experience is hunting MBogo...the Cape Buffalo. He's big, tough and full of fight. It will come down to you or him...choose wisely and use enough gun.

so where you now Gatvol?


We have a place in La$ Vega$ and one in Garsfontein. So back and forth every year...........

As to the Cape Buffalo. Im not much of a hunter, would probably starve.ha ha. More of a target guy. anyway as a Helicopter driver I had the opportunity to help out the Vet up at Entabeni. they needed to dart a Buffalo from the Helicopter. Let me tell you what a fun ride that was. I had to herd the thing out of the bush then keep him on the flat while he was darted and ran out of steam. I dont think you know how big a backside of a Buffalo is till it fills in the whole door of the Helicopter. Vet had to get close as the rotor wash effects the trajectory of the dart.
Anyway if I wasnt so busy flying I would have taken a picture.