I own two S&W scandium-framed titanium-cylinder revolvers (329PD .44 mag and 340Sc .357 mag revolvers). On both revolvers, I’ve noticed what appears to be corrosion or erosion areas inside each titanium cylinder just before the ID reduction. This area of concern looks like a non-reflective ring just in front of where the end of the brass cartridge extends. I would assume that this is where the hot gases are eroding the titanium as the bullet exits the cartridge case. Is this normal for titanium? I worry about it compromising the strength and integrity of the cylinder?

I contacted S&W to ask about it and they said it shouldn't be a problem, but couldn't be 100% sure without me sending in the guns for their inspection. Prior to going through that effort, I thought I'd see if any other scandium/titanium owners have see the same dull "ring" inside their cylinders.

Does it come out and come clean when you clean the chambers with a bore brush? or does it look like it's pitted into the metal after cleaning? If it comes out your probably fine. If it does not then I'd send the guns to smith to have them look at them.

Does it come out and come clean when you clean the chambers with a bore brush? or does it look like it's pitted into the metal after cleaning? If it comes out your probably fine. If it does not then I'd send the guns to smith to have them look at them.

Nope, it does not come out after cleaning.

Haven't seen this with my Taurus, but I don't shoot it much. There could be a difference in the alloys the different manufacturers use.

Let us know what you hear.

I've cleaned up a couple of revolvers that appeared to be "pitted", especially .357's with a lot of .38 through it. Depending on how long the accumulation has been there, it can take a very long time. Soak - Scrub - Soak - Scrub..........

But I do a bit of engineering to pay the bills, and sometimes I work with titanium alloys. The thermal tolerance, modulus of expansion, corrosion resistance of titanium is incredible, far greater than most steel(s).

If you shot enough to burn out the cylinder, you shot a WHOLE lot. Just the thought of a titanium .44 Mag. makes my tennis elbow twitch.

I've cleaned up a couple of revolvers that appeared to be "pitted", especially .357's with a lot of .38 through it. Depending on how long the accumulation has been there, it can take a very long time. Soak - Scrub - Soak - Scrub..........

But I do a bit of engineering to pay the bills, and sometimes I work with titanium alloys. The thermal tolerance, modulus of expansion, corrosion resistance of titanium is incredible, far greater than most steel(s).

Thanks TMan.... that's the kind of experience I was hoping to hear. I always thought that titanium was extremely corrosion resistant, but I was unsure if it could withstand the hot gases eroding like normal steel does. I haven't shot very many rounds out of either gun (less than 100), but I haven't always cleaned them right after shooting, so I was worried that they had maybe corroded. But then I know that when new guns are test fired at the factory, they don't clean them and they sit in the box for months. And I have been shooting mostly .38 in my .357 titanium, so maybe (hopefully) it's just caked-on burnt powder. I'll try your soak, scrub, soak, scrub method to see if it cleans up.

mike kendrick, for the sake of asking what kind of ammo are you shooting?

I shoot a variety of ammo, both factory and handloads. My handloads are always loaded on the milder side, usually with Unique or Bullseye powder and jacketed bullets. Factory loads are typically inexpensive plinking stuff like Winchester USA or Remington UMC w/ jacketed bullets.

Remember that titanium is used both in joint replacements in humans, and also as the skin of extremely high performance aircraft such as the SR-71 spyplane.

If it won't work for the application at hand, I shudder to think what might be needed. Maybe they got a batch of alloy out of spec?

Maybe they got a batch of alloy out of spec?

Remember this is occuring on two different guns bought in different years. I looked at my friend's 329PD last night and noticed the same "dull" rings just in front of the cylinder shoulders.

I did clean my gun with bore solvent and a normal brass bore brush for several passes and it didn't remove the rings. Then I put a nylon bore brush on a cordless drill, applied some Flitz polishing compound and spun it inside one of the cylinders for 10-20 seconds. I ran a rag patch through to clean it out and the dull area was still there. That's why I suspect corrosion/erosion in the actual surface of the metal. I'm still hoping that it's just really hardened powder residue. This weekend, I'll try to be a little more agressive with the cleaning and report back the details next week.

The instructions that came w/ my Taurus Ti tracker said not to use anything to clean the cylinder that would scratch off the protective coating. Claimed doing so would weaken the cylinder.

Seems dubious to me, but that's what they said.

Titanium is known to be very resistant to corrosion. It is also hard to machine, are you sure what your seeing isn't from the manufacturing process?

If it were me, I would send them back to S&W. That would end the guessing.

My understanding is that titanium gets stronger when it gets hotter. I ran into it when just tapping some threads by hand. The mild heat of cutting made the threads harder and harder to cut.
It might be that the metal has just changed color from the heat. All of my revolvers have the black rings and throats. I don't try to remove it because it takes abrasive action to do it. If it is clean, don't worry about the color.

My understanding is that titanium gets stronger when it gets hotter. I ran into it when just tapping some threads by hand. The mild heat of cutting made the threads harder and harder to cut.
It might be that the metal has just changed color from the heat. All of my revolvers have the black rings and throats. I don't try to remove it because it takes abrasive action to do it. If it is clean, don't worry about the color.

Corrosion or erosion is not a simple changing of color of metal. I think a qualified gunsmith or S&W should look at it.

It's not the color that worries me, it's the fact that the surface looks "etched." The internal finish of the cylinder is semi-gloss all the way to this ring which appears "flat" or "non-glare." My eyes aren't as good close up anymore, so it's hard to tell if this is a slightly raised surface (deposit of burnt powder residue) or from a slightly depressed area (from erosion/corrosion). I'll look at the pistols again this weekend and try to ascertain more info.

I'm just reluctant to go through the hassle of sending them both off to S&W unless absolutely necessary. If no one else is seeing what I'm seeing in their S&W scandium framed titanium cylinder revolvers, then that tells me that I've done something wrong. I've either cleaned them too much (doubtful)......or didn't clean them soon enough after firing (guilty). :confused:

Help! Unclenick, where are you when we need you the most? Bet nick could clear this up in an instant.:D

As to sending your revolver off to S&W, the last time I sent my model 41 in for repairs, my friendly UPS carrier charged me almost $50 for overnight express shipping. UPS claims that they have experienced too many firearms disappearing from normal shipping so this is their way of combating pilferage. I would try to get S&W to pick up the shipping charge especially if the revolver is still under warranty. Best wishes.

Know anyone with a borescope???

I own two S&W scandium-framed titanium-cylinder revolvers (329PD .44 mag and 340Sc .357 mag revolvers). On both revolvers, I’ve noticed what appears to be corrosion or erosion areas inside each titanium cylinder just before the ID reduction. This area of concern looks like a non-reflective ring just in front of where the end of the brass cartridge extends. I would assume that this is where the hot gases are eroding the titanium as the bullet exits the cartridge case. Is this normal for titanium? I worry about it compromising the strength and integrity of the cylinder?

I contacted S&W to ask about it and they said it shouldn't be a problem, but couldn't be 100% sure without me sending in the guns for their inspection. Prior to going through that effort, I thought I'd see if any other scandium/titanium owners have see the same dull "ring" inside their cylinders.


Hope I'm not too late, but just registered. This may be helpful from a review on the 340pd:

One note about cleaning Although the black anodized frame cleans easily, as well as the stainless steel barrel, I found it extremely difficult to remove gunshot residue from the somewhat porous surface of the titanium cylinder. I tried every gun solvent and cleaner I had with no success. What finally worked for me came from my car cleaning supplies. A small dab of magnesium and aluminum rim polish lifted the stains right off the cylinder.

Regards,
Fred

Thanks TMan.... that's the kind of experience I was hoping to hear. I always thought that titanium was extremely corrosion resistant, but I was unsure if it could withstand the hot gases eroding like normal steel does. I haven't shot very many rounds out of either gun (less than 100), but I haven't always cleaned them right after shooting, so I was worried that they had maybe corroded. But then I know that when new guns are test fired at the factory, they don't clean them and they sit in the box for months. And I have been shooting mostly .38 in my .357 titanium, so maybe (hopefully) it's just caked-on burnt powder. I'll try your soak, scrub, soak, scrub method to see if it cleans up.

Hey guys... I thought I'd update you on what I found. I finally tried the soak, scrub, soak, scrub, etc.. method and the "ring" did begin to disappear. Slowly.. So, it was apparently just caked on burnt powder from firing the shorter .38's in the .357 cylinder. It wasn't erosion/corrosion. I used Hoppes solvent, foaming bore cleaner, and Blue Wonder. I even had to put the copper bore brush on a cordless drill and just spin the heck out of it in each cylinder, but the rings are coming out. There are still some traces of the deposits here and there, but the shiny cylinder bore is still there. Once I do get it completely clean, I'm not going to shoot .38's anymore out of it.

Thanks for your help.

Hey guys... I thought I'd update you on what I found. I finally tried the soak, scrub, soak, scrub, etc.. method and the "ring" did begin to disappear. Slowly.. So, it was apparently just caked on burnt powder from firing the shorter .38's in the .357 cylinder...Once I do get it completely clean, I'm not going to shoot .38's anymore out of it.
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I had seen several articles advising shooters not to shoot short case rounds in longer cylinders; like using 38 Special in 357 Magnum or 44 Special in 44 Magnum. Discoloration is minor problem here. More serious is eventual erosion. And VERY dangerous one is when you have large deposits. You might slip into cylinder full power magnum load but when it goes off, deposit and crimped case will compete for the same space and already high magnum pressure will skyrocket. You might get away with this for a while if you are shooting large frame 357 like Ruger NMBH or S&W N frame. However, doing this in medium frame revolver, and especially smaller frame, makes kaboom quite possible outcome.

Crud is the problem. Erosion is not.

Erosion was an issue back in the day of priming mixes that had ground glass in them, but that's been a very long time, and mostly was an issue with .22 rimfires.

These rings of crud were not excessive. That was why I could really tell whether it was a very slight decrease in I.D. due to a buildup or if it was a very slight increase in I.D. due to erosion. I'm very happy that it was crud and not erosion as I would have been extremely disappointed that my two $800 scandium alloy / titanium-cylindered guns were not very durable. But they are.

I still have a spot or two in each of they cylinders with crud buildup which need removal. Any good ideas on the very best solvent that will soften this very hard deposit without a lot of elbow grease? I've thought of putting some patches in each cylinder and then soaking them with solvent and let it sit for hours/days before scrubbing again.

Did you try some spray carb or brake cleaner? Those are pretty good solvents.