OK....I have talked to the ATF people about this and am sending a letter to Wasington for verification.
Thyere appears to be a deeper ruling on existing laws concerning casting bullets. They now define them as a component to be loaded in ammo and say you have to have the license to sell, or give, to anyone except for your on use.
There is still a somewhat undefined part if the caster is doing 100%contract work for someone with a license. If someone is casting at the location, and employed by the license owner, he needs no license.
Is it enforced or overlooked.....I don't know?
A person post all this on another forum and started the ball rolling. If the person started this is who I think it is...I have some comments. This person bought all the equipment from a former bullet maker. I offered to let his products be listed on my Dixie Slugs page. I spent many hours discussing the in and outs of the business....to no avail! He could also have picked up some buiness casting slug/bullets for our ammo....either for us to use or sold to the reloaders.
As far as I am concerned, everyone can do as they want! Wheter it is enforced aor not, is no concern to me. But, the ruling, as defined today, can be only defined as I have stated.....you can not cast bullets, give/sell ammo to the public (including friends), without a license. They now define components, including cast bullets, as part of finished ammo and as such requires a license for sale.
I do have my own opinions about this new definition though....it's just more regulations that are somewhat not needed....but it's the law.
Regards, James

That is very unfortunate news, if that is the final decision. Component prices are already going thru the roof. Also really puts the kabosh on say, someone sending me some bullets from x mold so I can try them before I get the mold.
Going to put a lot of hobbyists out of business or in legal hot water.
Andy

Andy, I think the key is "for sale." I don't think the law either prohibits, taxes or licenses any NON-sale transactions. In other words, you can give or receive bullets from a buddy, as long as it isn't a sale.

I would not bet on it....read the **** law! I think it is over-regulation.
I am not concerned what other people do...I only did this investigation because I was asked. For details, don't guess, call your closest ATF office!
However, you may get a different definition....mine comes from Washington.
I am not concerned with what people decide to do....I have a 06 license.
Regards, James

I call BS -they are reading into the Law whath as finished ammuniton -A bullet is not ammunition!!! Let them come and I'll own them in court!! So every retailer has to have a license to sell components? So every mom an pop store has to have a lincense to sell ammo? So with this way of thinking they can't sell you casting components until you prove you have a license to cast bullets!! I don't think so!!

I think we need to focus on what this is about....whether casting and selling bullets needs a license. It has nothing to do with selling finished ammo.
It appears there it is a matter of how some statements are defined. If the law says that anyone making the components for loaded ammo must have a license......and casting bullets is in fact making a component.....then this is where the final word will come, not from local office, but from Washington.
We can huff and puff, but let's get a well defined opinion before we go off half cocked. I have been looking at the ATF book and I will tell you it reminds me of the incone tax book.
After getting a document about the ruling....all have a choice, abide by the ruling or not.
I am going to follow up on this the best I can....although it does not affect me directly. I have many friends that are planning to cast and sell full bore slug/bullets for reloading....and it does affect them. They have spent money on special molds, etc.
I also want a ruling about who I can purchase molded slug/bullets from, whether they would be seen as a Dixie contractor, selling 100% of their work to us, and what is the ruling for listing slug/bullets on Dixie's web page.....other than slug/bullets we ourselves cast.
I have all ready been told that anyone could work on/in our buildings and cast bullets that would come under our license.....to be sold on Dixie's web page.
So....It's time for defining the problem.
Pratices I have be told are not legal:
One is reloaders picking up fired shells at a club and then members reloading ammo and selling it to club members.
Another is reloaders selling ammo they reload to the public.
These two come under the definition of maufacturing ammo and needs a 06 license.
Look....This was brought to light on another forum where the poster, who wanted to get into the busines, had gone to the ATF and forced an opinion. There are other considerations faced than just getting the 06 license. There is re-zoning the property that must be approved locally and there might be an increase in property tax. I went through all this and it can be a real pain!
I only got involed when I received emails for friends.Whether Wasington is going to define the same situation the same way is to be seen.
Regards, James

It is going to get worse.

HOW DOES THIS KIND OF CRAP GET AROUND THE SECOND AMENDMENT???:mad:

The same way all of the other crap gets around it

They get arround the second amendment because we stand by and allow them to get away with it.
Maybe we should start dragging them into court over every little infringment, and see if we can wear them down for a change!

They get arround the second amendment because we stand by and allow them to get away with it.
Maybe we should start dragging them into court over every little infringment, and see if we can wear them down for a change!


isn't that what the N R A is for?????????????????????????????????????

isn't that what the N R A is for?????????????????????????????????????
Actually no. Historically the NRA started out as a group of national guard shooters in New York following the Civil War advocating the improvement of rifle shooting skills. From those humble beginnings, it has branched out into almost all of the shooting sports. As the largest and most well-known of all the shooting organizations, it was the likeliest group to be representing the interests of shooters when the idea of gun control became a crutch for all politicians looking to retain their positions in government. Since no other group has fought the gun control advocates as hard as the NRA, the misconception has come about that this is the purpose of the NRA. Nothing could be further from the truth. NRA members understand this and welcome all new members who care enough for their rights to join the organization.

They get arround the second amendment because we stand by and allow them to get away with it.
Maybe we should start dragging them into court over every little infringment, and see if we can wear them down for a change!
You must have more money for legal fees & fines than most of us do. And not mind if you lose and have to do some jail time.

:confused:

The point here is to find out, from the very top, what the law says. It appears it is very vague and the lower levels don't really know.....and to cover their rear just says "you need a license".
Right now, we really do not know...and until then we do not know where we stand. A formal leter, under my license number, has been sent to Washington, for their ruling. Maybe I am dense, but I don't see how this directly applies to the 2nd Amend?
I asked for a ruling and for them to quote (and show) the law that says anyone casting bullets must have the Ammo Manfacting License (06).
Regards, James

Anytime someone "graduates" from making something for his own use, to selling the product, they have become a business, and are subject to local zoning regulations, and local, state, and perhaps federal licenses. This will certainly also set you up to pay local and state taxes as a business. The IRS will also be interested in what you are doing. If you are manufacturing a product incorporating something as hazzardous as melting lead, there will also be OSHA requirements, perhaps even inspections. If you hire any employees, the list of requirements increases.

This is the way it is folks. Complaining about it will not change the system. Some people choose to ignore these facts but they are taking a chance at serious consequences.

I don't think the issue is when a bullet casting becomes a business, the question at hand is whether said bullet casting business needs a federal ammo manufacturing license, considering that they aren't making ammo, just one component. Further clouding the issue is the fact that the government doesn't seem to have a consistent position

I certainly do not need to be reminded about all the hassle of setttig up an ammo maker....I have been the full route!
The question here's is whether or not a federal license is needed to cast and sell bullets. If the rule comes down that a license is needed....it has long range consideratioms....what about bullet swaging and other components like plastid and cut filler wads?
Regards,.James

Welllll, speed limits are also laws. How many folks strictly adhere to them?

There seeems to be very little concern about this. I assure you, that if you had invested time and money into getting started selling cast bullets on the web or elsewhere.....you would be concerned if the agents made a call and closed you down, maybe with a fine.
The problem here is it appears that you can't get a rulling and the standard answer to any question where the ruling is vague is "get a license!".....what/which license? Federal, state. local, or what? If you are making fixed ammo, the course is clearer.
There is a great deal of difference in a hobbyist peddleing some bullets ...and someone that has gotten into the business big time.I could answer, in detail, what is required if you make ammo for sale to the public!
I went into trying to get an answer for friends.....I know where/ what I need as a licensed ammo maker.....do you really know where you stand?...or care?
Regards, James

As a Canadian I have always admired the USA in its ability to allow its citizens to have an almost unchecked right to own guns and possess ammo ectra. After reading the above posts it dawned on me that you have the same uniformed law makers as we do. You would not believe what I go through just to own handguns in Canada. I melt lead for my self and on occasion have sold some and would not like it if I had to get a license just to sell $70.00 in lead on occasion. What about ebay should every individual who sells something there get a license???

There seeems to be very little concern about this. What reaction were you looking for, my take is,"The government doesn't know what its doing, what's new"
do you really know where you stand?...or care?

I am always on the side of less government, its like Ronald Reagan said, the scariest words are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help"

It is the selling that is licensed not the making for own use.same as making a firearm.you can make it but cannot sell it.this post is confusing me as to what you are trying to prove.you sell bullets you get a license.some times people post ideas to see who salutes it and if favored it becomes the rule.you can load ammo for people using their components and your labor with out a license.but you must use their components.:D

The simple question arose....Do you need a Federal license to cast bullets and sell to the public....nothing else. It seems that the Feds will not answer that question from Washington, yet the district offices say you do.
What other people do is up to them. I only started this post so people would understand what many potential bullet casters are hearing. Check it out yourself, but be ready to get vague answers. Right now, I don't think there is a clear answer.
Regards, James

No reply from Washington? That's surprising.....

Bureaucrats being vague, who'd a thunk it :D