Today I took my 15 year old son to the range shooting 3 of our 4 guns, the semi-autos.I load, he shoots. You dads know how it is. After about a hundred rounds he took a break so I took a clean target with 6 bullseyes on it and picked up the Sigma 40VE with a 14 round magazine firing 3 shot groups as fast as I could. I had 3 hits and out of the black on the rest. I then took my braad new Glock 29 with 2 magazines and had 3 misses and the rest hits and so it goes with the S&W. With that SSSLLLOOOOWWW trigger pull does it ever get any better and is it worth the effort. I've read about the "second stage" of the trigger pull and mine is almost there,but if I could find someone who would buy this one reasonable, I'd unload it in a heartbeat. I did a good bit of reading, coming back into handguns after a 30 year hiatus and I really like the 40 caliber round, but this particular pistol is taking a lot of the fun out of the process.

Does it ever get any better? Should I sell it (if I can), keep trying, or just cut my losses and buy a much better .40 cal.?

Mike

I do admit however that I was taken in by the DA trigger pul, not knowing anything about other makes as it seemed like a very safe design and I had my 15 year old to consider.

You had better learn to like it, unless you are willing to take a big hit when you sell it. With the rebates and mag offers, the new pistol is priced very attractively. The trigger does get better, I also have a SW40VE. Unfortunatly I bought mine before the AWB sunset, so I have to buy my hi-caps. The Sigmas are good pistols, all considered, the enhanced versions are very reliable. I bought mine for Home Defense, figgured if I had so shoot someone, better a gun I don't care about sitting in the Police Locker than one I do care about.
Andy

I have the 9VE Sigma and so far like it a lot and its my primary CCW now. The trigger gets better the more you use it but still remains on the heavier side. In the past I had two older Sigma 9's and installed a Wolf spring kit in them to take the trigger pull down to about 5.5#'s. That made a BIG difference in how accurate I could shoot the Sigma's when shooting at paper.

If you do not wish to install a Wolf spring kit in your gun I suggest getting some snap caps and practice a lot. Doing this will help the trigger get settled in and you will get used to the trigger. All in All I think the Sigma is a great gun for someone on a budget. There are better guns out there and there are worse, Sigma's are far from being junk but not quiet a M&P either.

. . . so I took a clean target with 6 bullseyes on it and picked up the Sigma 40VE with a 14 round magazine firing 3 shot groups as fast as I could. I had 3 hits and out of the black on the rest. . .
Mike
Doesn't sound that bad considering the way you shot those groups. If you want to do better, you have to take deliberate aim and squeeze off your shots. Kind of debunks the shooting you see in the films, doesn't it? Hollywood doesn't have a clue.

Staging is a technique that became popular when the old PPC revolver matches were big. Part of the course was fired double action and shooters learned that with even a reasonably smooth double action you could tell when it was about to fire. The trick was to pause at that point and refine your sight picture, then fire. This was done so only an experienced shooter knew you were doing it. Some shooters had "trigger jobs" done to enhance their ability to "stage the trigger".

It appears that S&W in designing the Sigma trigger, tried to copy the feel of their double action revolvers. The Sigma is not a S&W revolver and will never duplicate the feel exactly. But the important thing is that 90% of the staging technique was in the mind. You have to learn to feel just when the trigger is about to break so that you can time the "pause - refine - shoot" sequence. Remember, staging is a "timed fire" technique not a "rapid fire" technique. The real secret of "staging" is not shooting till the trigger reaches some mythical point but a sort of ZEN (mind trigger) melding. Yes, "dry firing" is the best way to reach that point and no, you will not harm your Sigma by dry firing with an empty chamber.

I forgot to mention the Sigma makes you look bad when you are shooting with others when time is a factor,so I'll just suck it in or take my Glock 10mm to those shoots. I love guns but as tools. No fancy collectors' stuff or pricey ego models for me. I certainly don't need a 3rd Glock but I would be tempted by something in between in .40 cal. (No more DA only triggers).
Mike

I have to say the 40 S&W Sigma was one of the worst pistols I've ever fired. I didn't have any malfunctions, but it didn't point right, had a terrible trigger, and really REALLY poor accuracy.

On the accuracy point, that wasn't just me; I shoot all my other handguns pretty well, and am a fairly decent shot.

Personally I'd sell that Sigma and get a better gun. If you want DAO, how about a Kahr? I recently picked one up in 40 S&W that has a beautiful trigger, and is much more accurate than my Glock 23 (which in turn was more accurate than the Sigma by a lot). Plenty of other double action semi-auto's out there without having to own a "weird" gun that makes you look bad when you shoot it.

If it's not fun for you to shoot, why keep it?

My Sigma experience started when I was hired on the PD. When I found out we were issued Sigmas, I wasn't happy at all. But, my attitude came from what I had heard other people say and what I read on the internet. Big mistake.

I was issued my 1st Gen SW40F and immediately went to the club with 500 rounds of my cast bullet reloads. I started out by checking to see it was sighted in from the factory over sandbags. It was perfectly sighted in. Then, to get used to the trigger, I started slow shooting at 10 yards. Everything went well with tight groups. Then I moved on to holster work to get used to the dual retention holster I was issued. All went well.

At the end of my range trip, all the ammo was gone. To test it out, I didn't lube it at all, and I didn't stop to clean or lube it during the shooting. After 500 rounds of my cast bullet reloads using Unique powder, not a single malfunction. I had confidence in it after that. All the internet rumors were total BS, usually written by people who had never even fired a Sigma, let alone owned one.

While I was active in that department, I shot either my issued Sigma or others that I had bought on my own almost exclusively, just to keep up with muscle memory. Over the years that I worked on that PD, I owned or was issued 11 Sigmas, in 9mm, .40, and one of the rare factory .357 Sig chambered Sigmas. In all that time, and tens of thousands of rounds of my cast bullet reloads, I had one malfunction, and that was with factory Winchester USA ammo.

In that original 1st Gen SW40F "problem gun", I had over 8000 rounds of my cast bullet reloads through it problem free before I stopped keeping track, plus all the Win USA 165gr FMJ and Winchester Ranger SXT 165gr JHP's for qualification.

Now, I only have one Sigma. It's an SW40G. I rarely shoot it anymore. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but I just prefer other pistols. Now, it's usually S&W wheelguns (which is what I shot exclusively up to my mid-20's), Kimber 1911, Glocks and 3rd Gen S&W autos.

I never shot less than 100% in department qualifications with the Sigma, and I even did some training with a State Trooper friend of mine when he was trying out for the STOP Team. I passed the STOP Team's pistol course with a score of 100%, too, using the Sigma. Most of the Troopers that take the test can't even shoot a passing score with their Sigs! Just screwing around, using an informal rest, I was shooting on the 100 yard rifle range and had a Sigma with me. I hit the 14" round steel plates at that distance at least 10 out of 15 shots every time.

The ergonomics of the Sigma is what I like the best. It's probably the most comfortable pistol I've ever held before. It is a completely natural pointer.

Like I said before, I don't shoot the Sigmas much anymore at all. But, it has nothing at all to do with reliability or inaccuracy. The trigger, although it can be mastered with training, it is a heavy trigger. And, all of the options out there that lighten the trigger have resulted in some reports of misfires. Basically, a Sigma is what it is. It's a very reasonably priced auto. It's ergonomic, reliable and reasonably accurate. The only drawbacks to the Enhanced Sigmas, IMO, are the heavy trigger pull, the propriatory equipment rail and lack of accessories built for it, and the lack of holsters available which will accept the Sigma with a Streamlight M4 attached.

I do find it a little funny that some people whine about the 10 pound trigger pull of a Sigma when so many people install the NY-2, 10 pound trigger, in their Glock! If I wanted a 10 pound trigger, I'd carry a Sigma over a Glock any day. They are much more ergonomic and just as reliable. But, the 10 pound trigger isn't what I'm really looking for. So, my Glocks, all 10 of them, have the 5.5 pound trigger in them.

Anyway, I guess I've rambled on enough. I know the Kahr was mentioned in a previous post. From my experience with Kahr, I'd recommend staying away from them. I had an MK40. I loved the trigger on it, but the **** thing wouldn't feed ANYTHING! It made 2 trips back to the factory (I had to pay shipping the first time, but they picked up the tab the second time, after much debating). Even after 2 trips to the factory, it still wouldn't feed a wide range of ammo reliably. They asked me what my carry ammo was and tuned it to that ammo. IMO, a pistol should feed just about any ammo out there. Not the Kahr, though. At least with S&W, they ALWAYS pay for shipping for any repairs, and their customer service department is the best in the industry. If you every have a problem with a S&W, they will make it right at no cost to you.

I love my sigma, sw9ve. Like all my guns, it has a specific purpose. It is not built for long range accuracy. It is a cheap defense pistol that can put some lead out there reliably. I too think that the trigger is a problem but I found that with a lot of practace, it is manageable. I suggest you try the double tap method; stage the trigger on the first shoot and then follow up with a quick one. After practaceing this for a wile you will find that the secound shoot will hit the paper. After you have mastered that, work your way up, stage the first, follow with two quick rounds. To answer you question if you should keep it or unload it, it is up to you but consider this, it sounds to me like you have some nice pistols that don't take a lot of effort to shoot accuratley. Why not keep the sigma for a challange? I find that fifty rounds or so through the sigma when I first get to range helps me shoot all my pistols better. If you do decide to off load the sigma, let me know. I have been wanting to get into the .40cal game for some time now.

I have to completely disagree with you. I never load the trigger. It goes completely against the rule "Don't put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot".

Just my opinion, though. If you are going to use it as a defensive pistol, the habit of loading the trigger is a very bad one.

I have a pretty new SW9VE, mine is very accurate and the trigger pull is heavy, but its consistent and that makes a big difference.

I like my gun, I shoot it at the 'club' and I don't get any sneers, I actually get a lot of Glock guys that are interested in it, and the vast majority of them are pleased with it, a few are steadfast a holes about it, but I don't care.

I had a Sigma 9mm and it was totally reliable and reasonably accurate but I too found the trigger slow to operate, pull, pull and pull some more, bang. I shot it well enough if I took my time but could not get off a fast and accurate shot. It was not a matter of trigger weight just seemed slow compared to a single action type. That gun also seemed to have an odd muzzle flip out to the right which made it slow to reacquire the sight picture after a shot. I guess one can get used to anything with enough practice but I just much prefer a single action trigger and not being bound by regulations to DAO, why bother?
I later acquired a Styer compact .40 and never had any complaint with its DAO trigger, shot it fast as well as slow.

About the time the Sigma first came out I bought a Glock and a Sig at the same time. I loved the Sig but hated the Glock. Most of my handgun shooting to that point had been with Smith revolvers, Colt revolvers and 1911s. I just couldn't get used to the Glock trigger and it was unbelievably inaccurate. I was reloading my ammunition and I found out that the Glock's polygonal rifling needed jacket bullets to be accurate.

I sold the Glock and bought a Sigma to replace it. I immediately found the similarity to Smith's double action revolver trigger and even with cast bullets the Sigma was plenty accurate. I liked the way it felt in my hand and the way it shot and it proved to be extremely reliable.

My standards regarding accuracy are fairly high. I don't know exactly how to qualify something like that except to say that for 26 years I was consistently the highest scoring shooter in a police dept. of about 65 men and one of the three top shooters in our regional police league.

As I said, my Sigma is an early one and I don't know what they are putting out now. The trigger will never be equal to a good S&W revolver and I still like my Sig better. But for a DAO only handgun, it's a good one and certainly better than the more expensive Glock.

We're getting off track here. I never suggested that the Sigma is a poor quality gun. It sold me , but at the time I was ignorant of what was available. For me what is important is self defense. I think about it (just watch the daily local news around here) and practice for it. If I need to use a firearm in self defense how tight I can shoot a group at 50 yards doesn't matter, it's how fast I can get off reasonably accurate rounds within 21 feet and 2 seconds that counts. For this I still think the Sigma is TOO SLOW. For this purpose a Glock is superior. (I have since bought 2 of them).
Mike