im having a problem with my .444ss and it makes no sense to me at all. my first three shots all place within an inch at 100 yrds no problem there but after that my succesive shots will place lower roughly one inch per shot for the next seven or eight shots. but they wil stil be within one inch horizontal. after ten shots my groups open up to about 4 inches and stay around 7 inches low. any ideas? and after complete cleaning and copper fouling removal same thing over again. im not sure if its the cleaning or the cooling that resets it

Vertical stringing is often a barrel overheating, but it can also be a problem with a loose screw or forearm, and fatigue or flinching could cause it to show up after a few shots based on diferences in the way that is fired. I've also use some dirty burning rounds in guns that let fouling build up and cause a similar problem.

Are you firing from a bench rest or sand bags, or some other form of freehand/normal hunting position? This could also contribute.

Just my .02, Ryan

im firing from shooting bags but i dont think its how im shooting as it repetes the same process every time and it is only vertical till i hit ten shots than its just a loose group 7 inches lower than my first three. im using a max load of h322 and 300 grain xtp there is considerable tool marks in the bore. so possibly the fouling/loading makes sense and the gun is a pain to clean. but im afraid to try the fire lapping thing as i shoot the gun quite often and i dont want to prematurly wear the throught. il have to try some slow fire sessions to see if its the barrel heating oe not. and could the mag tube screw being to tight contribute to this? causing the barrel to bend slightly down as it heats and expands while the mag tube does not? il have to try loosening the mag screw a little bit also see if thats the problem. all screws are tight on the gun check evry shooting session

it shoots 5 shots touching at 100 yards cold bore all under one inch (i fired one shot every hour after cleaning the gun 5 times i live to far from the range to do the one shot a day test)

second thought i did my load developing using a simmons scope maybe that has something to do with it however i dont understand how it would magicaly fix itself every day but who knows

I had a similar problem with my Marlin SS and found the bore was not true it varied by .005 in two spots . After slugging and lapping the barrel this baby shoots great. Heating will cause your accuracy to drop off but not that much.Good Luck

has anyone fired many rounds after firelapping there barrel? ive heard that it can cause premature throught erosion and shorten the life of the rifle

Shoot it with the forend off. That will tell you a lot about what is going on.

Firelapping won't wear out the barrel prematurely, if you do it correctly. Get Marshall's book. I've not known anyone to wear out a .444 barrel, under any circumstances. They hurt to much to shoot all day!!!

Speculation, you almost certainly need to firelap it. Then work on the forend bedding.

i realy wish someone would do some serious testing on these firelapping kits something like 5 identicl rifles with and without lapping and shoot them untill the barrel wears out and track accuracy along the way. also track cost of cleaning supplies as well if i have to spend 1,000 dollars more to keep it clean as is maybe a little premature wear from fire lapping isnt so bad

Removing metal and wear are not exactly the same thing. To say that fire lapping is JUST controled wear is innacurate. It really is finishing the barrel.
Now, if the manufacturer of your gun finished the inside of your barrel just like they finished the outside of your gun after it was machined and molded, then firelapping would not make much sense. Problem is, most manufacturers do not finish the inside of the barrel to the degree that lapping does because it costs money (You have a Marlin...it was not lapped at the factory).

Someone at that factory did take steel wool and sandpaper and other abbrasives to the outside of your gun though, or it would be rough.

It sounds to me like you have a rough bore. You have a straight shooting gun, but you definitely are having friction related problems. I'd be hard pressed to think that removing the excess metal that makes your bore rough would lessen the life of your gun - the second you remove friction, you remove a large part of the wear that shooting will produce.

Also, check out shooters solutions MolyFusion. It reduces wear, strengthens the metal, and thereby increases the life of you gun. I'd use it after firelapping. (Firelapping removes the probleam metal that causes friction/wear, and Moly Fusion further reduces friction/wear). http://www.shootersolutions.com/sout.html


I'd definitely buy Marshall's book...it will probably answer all of your questions on the topic to a degree you hadn't even thought of.

Have some great shooting!:)

highway- is your barrel a 1 in 20 Ballard, or a 1 in 38 MG ?

As mentioned above it is nothing more than stringing. That happens as your barrel heats up. If shooting for groups, fire a couple of rounds and wait for the barrel to cool down, fire one, wait, fire another, wait etc.

If your first 3 shots are under an inch there is absolutely no need to firelap that rifle. You do not have an accuracy problem at all brother. You are just experiencing the phenomenon of stringing we levergunners all go thru.

It sounds to me like it is a real shooter. Join us in this year's upcoming Ranch Dog's Postal Match VI.

Dave:cool:

update after loosening the screw which holds the mag tube in place i can now fire 8 shots quickly before accuracy becomes an issue holds 8 shots under 5 minutes to 3 inch groups after which ive got to run a bore snake through it or its back to 6 inch groups.(im using open sights now so il never see that .85 group again) and its a mg barrel

Shoot it with the forend off. That will tell you a lot about what is going on.

Firelapping won't wear out the barrel prematurely, if you do it correctly. Get Marshall's book. I've not known anyone to wear out a .444 barrel, under any circumstances. They hurt to much to shoot all day!!!

Speculation, you almost certainly need to firelap it. Then work on the forend bedding.

I totally agree with Mike on this one. A long time ago I had a Savage o/u in 30-30/20gr. The vertical stringing you described is exactly what I endured and barrel heating was the culprit. On the other hand, I have never seen the problem with my 444 or 44 nor ever heard of anybody else having the problem with a big bore Marlin.

I think you are spot on in being concerned with firelapping so far as barrel life is concerned. There are a lot of definations as to what firelapping is. Some are mighty rough on a barrel and some are not agressive enough. Again, like Mike said, the best is the kit sold out of Beartooth with the process decsribed in Marshall's book. In the last couple decades I have firelapped over a dozen handguns and rifles in everything from 22lr to 444. The worst result I ever had was no change. In about 75% of the cases, there was an increase in accuracy (sometimes a lot) and decrease in fouling. I would firelapp (as described in Marshall's book) without hesitance. By the way, you can't get away with cheating on the process. If you firelapp a couple guns and never stick a bullet in the bore, you are probably running the bullets too fast. That means too much lead deposits in the bore and you spend most of your lapping time cutting down the previous bullets deposits. Firelapping is not hard but must be done correctly to get correct results.

Good luck and enjoy that great rifle!

If messing with the forend helped, I'd get the McPherson book "Accurizing the Factory Rifle" and go from there. A lot of good tips on forend bedding, etc.

Although I'd certainly agree with Dave as well if you have 3 good shots, well, you probably aren't going to be sending the 4th at a critters that's still standing there looking at you :D It is a hunting rifle after all.

ok i ordered marshals lapping kit as well as some bullets and i need some load data for these things anyone got any good lapping loads for the .444 marlin? the powders i have on hand are h322, h4198, titegroup, unique, blue dot, rerloader7, reloader15, win748, aa2015, and trail boss

Don't forget to pick up the MolyFusion, it is some pretty slick stuff...keeps the heat down quite a bit. :cool:

Hope you have a great time with your gun!

ok i ordered marshals lapping kit as well as some bullets and i need some load data for these things anyone got any good lapping loads for the .444 marlin? the powders i have on hand are h322, h4198, titegroup, unique, blue dot, rerloader7, reloader15, win748, aa2015, and trail boss

"my first three shots all place within an inch at 100 yrds no problem"

I need more accuracy problems like that. It's a hunting rifle for very large game.

yeah i already jumped on one moly product of shooting bandwagon so i think il wate on this one till the rest of the world discovers it so theres more real worl testing it took 4 years for the other stuff to fade and about as long to clean out of my barrel. so no offense but il wate thanks for the info and il keep an eye on this product

If you do indeed firelap be sure to take a stout cleaning rod and jag with you to the range as you might very well stick one or two boolits in the bore. Your loads should just barely shoot out of the end of the barrel. Try the TiteGroup with say 4 gr on a round or two without the lapping compound on the boolits and see what that does. If they do OK try one or two with lapping compound before loading up 20. I always use a filler like dacron on top of the powder to keep it in place. No need to hurry the process as patience usually pays huge dividends. I cannot see your accuracy improving though as you have a levergun lots of folks would die for.

You really do need to consider slugging the barrel before you determine if you need to firelap though.

Dave:cool:

bore slugs at 4.30- 4.305, im more concerned with ease of cleaning at this point than with accuracy my goal was to have less than 4 inch groups with open sights at 100 yards using a bullet that did more than piss off the bear.

that one group of .85 inches seems to have bean a freak act of god as i have bean unable to duplicate it my groups are averaging 1.5 iches now with the scope. i might try tightening the mag screw again maybe thats why it was shooting so good for the first three rounds

ok i ordered marshals lapping kit as well as some bullets and i need some load data for these things anyone got any good lapping loads for the .444 marlin? the powders i have on hand are h322, h4198, titegroup, unique, blue dot, rerloader7, reloader15, win748, aa2015, and trail boss

Titegroup is probably your best bet, in terms of burning rate. I've used about 3 grains of Bullseye in the .444

FYI, I would use a filler to keep it back near the primer. Load the powder, and then stuff as much polyester pillow stuffing as you can get in the case. Sorta wipes the bore as you go, to boot!

Load one at a time so you can't get a double charge.