Anyone have one of these rifles.If so please give me some good load data if you have some.Powders,bullets,etc. thanks:)

Southern hunter: I also have one of these "handy" little rifles. If you look at the load tables you'll see three levels. the lowest levels are black powder equivlents. the second level is for the marlin lever actions. i normally use loads in the low marlin levels. Any loads above this level will create "noticeable" recoil and aren't really necessary for the deer that I hunt. My current load is the Lyman (gould) 330 plain based hollow point. I load 31 grains imr4198 and get 1450 fps and 1.5" groups at 100. I just looked it up and this load is at the top end of the level one loads. Works for me.

Siamese4570

I have been loading the Lee 340 grain cast bullet on top of 51 grains of ReLoaoder 7 for more than twenty years. It's travelling at 1850 fps and gives 1 1/2" groups at 125 yds. I recently tried the Berrys 350 grain copper plated bullet with several powders and got an average of two foot groups. The only jacketed bullet ( factory made) I use is the Remington 405 gr. softpoint over 46 grs. of IMR 3031. It gives the same accuracy as the Lee 340.

Keep in mind the fact that the advantage of the single shot rifle is that you are not limited to lighter weight FN bullets that must fit into a 2.55 inch OAL in order to function through lever rifle magazines.

Therefore your maximum OAL is only dictated by where the bullet contacts the rifling in the leade of the chamber. Therefore you can use the longer and heavier bullets that have a higher ballistic coefficient. These are the bullets and loads used by modern silhouette and creedmoor target shooters at ranges up to 1000 yards. Late nineteenth century hunters were able to take North America's largest game animals with their single shot rifles.

Even at black powder velocity loads the single shot 45-70 rifle is capable of remarkable performance. Just for example, Lyman has molds for the original Gov't 500 grain bullet (457125) and the 535 grain Postell (457132). The Postell is the type of bullet used in long range target competition. Lyman shows a range of 36 to 41 grains of IMR 3031 for the 535 grain bullet that gives velocities in the range of 1200 to 1400 fps. Black powder loads will be 100 to 200 fps less. You are not going to need anything more than this.

Bottom line: If you rifle will accomodate loads up to almost 3 inches in OAL why limit yourself to the loads for the lever action rifles.

Anyone have one of these rifles.If so please give me some good load data if you have some.Powders,bullets,etc. thanks:)



Here's some great data for a lot of bullets, both cast and jacketed that can be used in the 45-70 Handi, be aware that recoil may be too much for ya, and you may wish to stay in the trapdoor level. A nice Limbsaver recoil pad added will help in that respect, I can make recommendations for a prefit model depending on whether it's the synthetic(#10018) or wood stock which there are several to check, the Limbsaver will make a big difference in felt recoil.;)

http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570.htm


Since this thread is about the Handirifle 45-70 which traditionally has a very short jump to the rifling, unless you throat it you'll be limited to 300gr and some 350gr bullets loaded to recommended COL, I have 2 45-70 Handis and a Buffalo Classic, all had short throats until I ran a .458" throater from 4D reamer rentals into them to lengthen and put a nice tapered leade in them instead of the factory's "throat" which just starts abruptly at the full depth rifling.

If you're using cast bullets, bore riders will work without deep seating, but most jacketed bullets 350gr and bigger will have to be seated to a shorter COL than most data recommends, which isn't too big a deal with mild to moderate loads, but it increases pressure and reduced powder capacity, specially with bigger bullets over 400gr.

Tim

NEF/H&R Centerfire Rifle Forum (http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/board,126.0.html)

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=40816

Wrongtarget:

You are getting me a little confused, The 45-70 is one of the very few 19th century BP cartridges that have been standardized by SAAMI. This should fix the chamber dimensions of all rifle manufacturers.

The maximum cartridge OAL is dictated by two factors; the distance from the bolt face to the rifling leade in the throat, and the maximum length allowed by the magazine and design of the rifle's action. The first condition is standardized by SAAMI, the second is under the control of the individual manufacturer.

Thus single shot 45-70's are only limited in length by the SAAMI dimensions. Lever action rifles have complex magazine and action conditions that dictate a FP bullet and a max OAL of 2.550 inches.

I can't image that New England Arms would cut a non-standard chamber that would not chamber the original 45-70 500 grain RN Gov't bullet.

Buy one and try it!! While you're at it, measure the COL of Remington factory 405gr ammo, you'll see it's .030" shorter than the recommended SAAMI length of 2.550", notice where the crimp is on the 405gr bullet! It's the one common complaint about H&R 45-70s and Buffalo Classics at GBO, I'd say 8 or 9 out of 10 rifles will have a short throat, most all other H&R chamberings typically have long throats.


http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,106312.msg1098302773.html#msg1098302773

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,103594.msg1098285628.html#msg1098285628

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,110067.msg1098331000.html#msg1098331000

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,55650.msg330556.html#msg330556

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,52789.msg311242.html#msg311242

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,89581.msg543805.html#msg543805

I can recall comments from 45-70 NEF owners on another forum. They were upset because the NRA would not approve the NEF for black powder silhouette matches. If what you tell me is true, that they have short throats limiting them essentially to lever action OALs, then they would be at a great disadvantage in competition.

NEF owners would also be cheated out of the advantages that a 45-70 single shot rifle offers, namely the ability to shoot longer and heavier bullets.

Yup, Buffalo Classic owners get shunned in a lot of the BPCR and other shooting competition, even tho the rifles are very accurate and will shoot with the best of em, could be why they made the rules that excluded em, they didn't want to be beat by a $300 rifle!! :eek:

I actually have two Buffalo Classics, but one was never shot as a 45-70, it was rechambered to 45-120 right out of the box, so I don't know if it had a short throat issue, but from all of those that have tried to load bigger bullets to recommended COL and couldn't, it had a more than good chance of being another one of em!! :(

I'm thinking about a used NEF 45/70 Handi Rifle. Idon't hand load and only buy factory loaded ammo from Winchester and Remington. So, after reading the above posts, I'm a tad confused and (ignorant). Will I be able to safely use Winchester 300 grain weight,Remington 300 grain and or 405 grain,all factory ammo in my rifle? Don't want a KABOOM!!

Any factory 300gr/405gr factory ammo won't be an issue, you can use any load you want in it, cept for the 500gr+ loads from Garrett and Conley Precision which will more than likely be loaded too long to chamber. Any loads that will chamber would be safe in any Handi made since 1999 when they went to the latest heat treated investment cast alloy frames, the 500 S&W is factory available in the Handi, it has a SAAMI max avg pressure above the 45-70 ruger load level and comparable case head size, but ruger cartridge overall lengths are longer, so chambering will likely be an issue in the typical short throated H&R.

All of Buffalo Bore's and most of Garrett's ammo are listed for the Handi.

Read the info under the loads...

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#4570

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp

Here's a penetration test of the slower Hornady Leverevolution ammo(1850fps vs 2050fps), Buffalo Bore 300gr(2350fps) and Garrett 420gr Hammerhead(1850fps).
Tim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqbxPorjY2w&feature=related

There is no problem what-so-ever in using ANY FACTORY LOADED 45-70 ammo from ANY SOURCE, in any NEW ENGLAND HANDI RIFLE.

The problem comes in reloading, although it isn't really a problem at all as long as you follow the bullet makers recommended cartridge over all length dimensions.

Problems will arise if you don't understand the rules concerning reloading and the "problems" can be rendered "non-propblems" by a few well understood by gunsmiths proceedures. If you don't understand what is being said in these posts then talk to your favorite gunsmith and have him show you...a picture is worth much more than a thousand words in this case.

I have a NEF BC and have reloaded and shot all the major brands bullets and most of the factory made cartridges without the slightest hint of a problem just by following the loading manuals recommended loads and COAL'S even though I've been reloading everything from smoke poles to cannons for over 50 years and have wildcatted rifles all my life.

The BC loaded with a 300 gr bullet using the Hogdons 2006 load manuals recommended load for that particular bullet and powder will chrono well over 2600 f/s and isn't a particularly heavy load although at the top of the range. I guarantee it will get your attention and anything you happen to point it at. I also have loads for bullets ranging from 300-550 gr, all seated to just touch the lands in the short throat of the BC and they all will do more than I will ever need and get into pressures way beyond SAMMI specs for Ruger #1 loads without the need to mess about with the throat length.

Those who reload can do things with their reloads that factory's can't do because of product liability, so if you just want to enjoy you shooter and still collect your game, go with any factory ammo and have at it.

Thanks for your reply and that sets my mine at ease for the $229 used gun purchase. I've owned NEF/H&R rifles in 223, 22-250 and 308 and really enjoyed them because.among other reasons, they "slow me down.":)

Just 1 more ? Keep in mind I'm not a reloader. Why will the 300 grain factory loads cause more recoil than the 405s? After reading the ballistic chart,it shows the 300s to be faster(lighter) and have more velocity and shoot flatter farther out. Are the cases loaded with more gunpowder and is that why they'll produce more "felt" recoil? I was thinking that if I bought some 300s vs. the 405s, I could soften the recoil some,but it appears just the opposite is true? However, I've shot nothing but Remington factory 405s in my Guide Gun and the recoil is not really too bad. Incidentally,I use the 45/70 for informal target and S.Texas brush hunting for deer and feral hogs.Thanks again for your help.

My NEF .45-70 Handi Rifle shot great with the Remington 405 grain factory load. It was a sub-MOA rifle right out of the box. So was my .30-30 Handi.

If you want it to shoot accurate get a .457,.458,.459 bullet.try pushing them through barrel which ever one pushes through barrel with a little resistance is the one you should go with.too many shooters rely on factory ammo.You want a bullet to engage with your riflling so it spins properly on way to target.this is so much more accurate.You need the right bullet diameter to shoot good. good luck Wayne

If you want it to shoot accurate get a .457,.458,.459 bullet.try pushing them through barrel which ever one pushes through barrel with a little resistance is the one you should go with.too many shooters rely on factory ammo.You want a bullet to engage with your riflling so it spins properly on way to target.this is so much more accurate.You need the right bullet diameter to shoot good. good luck Wayne

It's best to slug the bore, then you'll know what size to use, the Lyman Cast Bullet manual recommends a bullet that's .001" to .002" larger than groove diameter. If you use egg sinkers, be sure they're lead and not the non-lead type that would be too hard.


http://www.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm

http://beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm?main=slug.htm