OK, I realize they may not always be cheaper. Still, I was looking at Midway and saw that Rainier LeadSafe plated bullets were less money that Oregon Trail Laser Cast. What's the deal? I find it difficult to want to shoot cast bullets if plated are the same or less money. Is there some aspect of this that I'm missing?

P.S. I'm talking for plinking and general target fiddling around, not necessarily hunting.

I don't think I've ever seen two bullet casters with identical price structures for their products. In the case of OT's Laser Cast, I believe they boast of using silver and other more expensive ingredients in their alloy to help with the consistency of the resulting bullets.

Copper plated bullets are cast, by the way, then copper plated afterward. They are not the same as jacketed bullets, which have a lead core pressed into a copper cup, the resulting combination then being formed in dies to the final bullet shape.

Plated bullets are required at some ranges worried about lead vapor evaporated at the base of the bullet getting into the air. The plating isn't nearly as thick or hard as a proper jacket and it cracks and flakes off if you try to resize it. They have the same loads prescribed as cast bullets rather than those for same-weight jacketed bullets for that reason. The main limitations result from these bullets needing to be cast with an allowance for the copper thickness to be added by the plating process. Since they can't really size it much after plating, the ones I've purchased have just not been as consistent in tolerance as a regular cast bullet, and have not shot as accurately.

Thanks for the reply, unclenick. I realize that my knowledge of cast and plated bullets is quite minimal and I only know of a few companies in that realm in total, so perhaps most plated bullets are more expensive than most cast?

I'm very interested to hear of your poor accuracy experience(s) with plated bullets. The only plated manufacturer I have any real knowledge of is Rainier who, interestingly, do not cast the lead bullets they plate, they swage them from lead wire. Then they plate them and swage again. However, I really have no idea whether cast or swaged is 'better' nor why(?).

It sounds as if my 'best' option is to try some straight cast and some plated and see what works, though that process at this point will take me quite a while (very limited shooting budget at this point). Any reason I couldn't shoot cast (or plated) in my 1927 Thompson with whatever load I use in my 1911?

You will want to look at the manufacturer's recomendation to make sure that the bullets aren't moving too fast through your Thompson.

I've never used the Rainier bullets but I have put quite a few of the Berry's plated bullets through my Glock. I have never shot them for pure accuracy. They work well for casual plinking and they served me well in a couple IDPA shoots. As you mentioned though, the best idea is to use a couple types and figure out what works best from your gun.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

I didn't realize the Raniers were swaged, like the lead bullets you get from Hornady or Speer or other major bullet makers. Swaging is just a process in which they cut a length of thick lead wire and press it into final shape ind dies. In order to tolerate swaging , the bullet alloy has to be a lot softer than a casting alloy does. It wouldn't matter, from the standpoint of the plating. It just requires a bullet of an exposed lead alloy.I've never shot them. If they are re-swaging them, they have managed to get the copper tough enough to withstand that. It probably doesn't require moving the metal much if the plating is properly controlled. Nonetheless, if it is even possible to swage them, it is still the case that they aren't as tough as jacketed bullets.

I never tried to investigated it in detail, but in a 1911 that will throw groups below an inch at 25 yards, I could never get the plated bullets to throw better than about twice that off sandbags. The experiment was some time ago, and they may have improved, though I haven't hear anyone bragging on their match winning plated bullet loads. so far.

I don't see why the Thompson should mind you lead and plated loads? It is not a gas gun, so it shouldn't care.

I would agree that the copper plating is not as hard as a copper jacket. I have recovered a number of copper plated pullets from a wood stump backdrop and many of them deform, yet remain intact. Usually when the bullet does come apart and expose the lead the copper plating is still bonded to the exposed lead. I have never recovered a bullet where the copper plating has seperated from the lead core.

from my limited understanding of hard casting bullets. the ingrediants also include arsenic(for heat treating) antimony(also for heat treating) and tin(produces a harder initial cast and more wetting action which makes it fill the mold better) as well as lead which will raise the cost. after initial casting the bullets must be trimmed of casting flash or sprue, run through a sizer die, heat treated to around 450-500 degrees for an hour or more cooled, resized again, and lubed. some companies as mentioned before also use silver for hardness and reduced friction and higher melting temp for less leading of the barrel.

i believe plated bullets or made by cutting a length of lead wire squishing it into shape dumping it into a plating bath rinsing and they are on there way to packaging in less than an hour

I've tried both Berry and Ranier plated bullets in .38/.357 & .44 Mag. I had some stripping at the higher velocities, and subsequent loss of accuracy. But Rugers are a little rougher in the barrel than some other tubes. At moderate levels of performance, they are fine for general plinking.

For the most part though, the better machine cast bullets seem to hold up, and shoot better in my handguns.

. . . after initial casting the bullets must be trimmed of casting flash or sprue, run through a sizer die, heat treated to around 450-500 degrees for an hour or more cooled, resized again, and lubed. . .

. . . i believe plated bullets or made by cutting a length of lead wire squishing it into shape dumping it into a plating bath rinsing and they are on there way to packaging in less than an hour

Sprue cutters are built into the mold and are actually part of what determines the shape of the bullet as well as providing the pour entry. Flashing should not appear in enough quantity for the bullet to require more than sizing to smooth out. If it does, there is either a casting temperature problem or a mechanical problem with the mold. Sizing and lubing are the last step for the majority of cast bullets. Heat treating, whether as a separate step or in the simplified form of dropping bullets into water while still hot from the mold, is associated only with premium bullets, such as those this board's sponsor sells.

The process for plated bullets you describe, swaging a lead slug, then plating, is, I believe, Ranier's process. Other commercial bullet makers cast, rather than swage the underlying lead. They send their cast bullets for reduction reaction plating with copper. The National Bullet Company is an example of a maker doing that (though I would not buy theirs, at this point in time, as they seem to be having financial problems that make their delivery unreliable).

Thanks for posting your experience, TMan. Any idea as to whether there was a speed level at which stripping began, or what that speed level might be? I'm thinking that, in a 45ACP, the stripping wouldn't be a problem. I wonder about lever action power level loads in 45-70 in my 32" barrel(?)

I have used quite a few Berry's bullets in my Beretta 96, the 165s on top of 5.5 grains of Bullseye made for quite a nice plinking load, it was in the 2.5" group category, but this gun never printed better than 2" @ 25 yards anyway, not that it really mattered much.

im using the 200 grain rainier plated hollow point in my .45acp for plinking and they are more accurate than i am but thats not saying alot. my only problem with them is because of the soft alloy and thin jacket they have a tendancy to deform when seating the bullet and the cases need to be expanded pretty good i use my 45lc expander die as it seems to be a little larger and the bullets seat with somewhat less pressure, and crimping in a seperate step seems to be pretty much manditory for me

As luck would have it, I spent some time with the Rainier folks at SHOT. They confirmed that it is permissible to use jacketed bullet data with their bullets, or (if a bit more speed is needed) split the difference between jacketed data and cast data for that bullet weight. They also said that it is much better to use a taper crimp than roll crimp their bullets, to avoid damaging the plating when the bullet moves during firing. Less crimp is better, also, for the same reason.

They also agreed that their bullets generally ARE cheaper than commercial cast, simply because their process is less energy-intensive with less waste metal. Makes sense.

MZ5, Berry's suggests keeping most of their bullets below 1200 fps, some of their bullets, 45-70, 500 S&W and such, have a thicker plating and could be pushed a little faster.

as some one stated earlier the alloys are the
expence in the cast bullets this is what gives them the hardness.. price antinomy and tin for a idea why they are harder and more expensive
than soft plated bullets.

price bismuth and silver to as oregon trail uses both these in there recipe bismuth is $18 a pound and silver is 15 an ounce. i price checked and buying enough materials to make 118 pounds of bullet casting materials would make 200 grain bullets cost $67 per 1000. my guess would be it would take at least a 1000 pounds to get enough price cut to make bullet casting profitable