Having recently acquired a Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull together with a bunch of brass, bullets, primers and powder, I set about gathering loading data.

I made a series of test loads and stayed far away from maximum loads. However, the hottest reloads I fired were painful to my hand and wrist due to cysts growing on tendons in the palm of my hand and carpil tunnel in my wrist.

Can anyone tell me if they have experience with the addition of a muzzle break on this and "worse" caliber pistols ? And can you give me an idea of cost ?

I already use a Past Shooting Glove and I've just found a WONDERFULLY accurate low velosity reload. If anyone is interested: 185 gr. JHP, Montana Gold brand bullet, WSR primer, 6.0 gr. International Clays powder in Winchester cases. The only group with this loading placed 5 shots in 1.135" and 4 out of those 5 into 0.685" at 25 yards. I used a rest and a 2 power scope. I was shooting at a redpaper target the size of a beer can ( way too large). I can hardly wait to load a bunch of brass with this load and ise a 1" red dot target placed in plain white paper.

Happy Holidays and great shooting to all you great guys in this forum. You make it the "Very Greatest Forum" I've ever seen !

csward:D

If you didn't have wrist and hand problems already shooting the 454 a lot will give them to you. My comment has to be limited to mag-n-porting it works well for barrel flip but didn't seem to reduce the recoil. The muzzle brakes I have tried really reduced the recoil but the noise and blast were unacceptable for me. The load I find the most comfortable to shoot in my FA 454 is a 335g cast over a load of HS-6 powder for a velocity of 1200-1300 fps I have had some good luck with the 480 ruger using Lil-gun powder and cast bullets in the 900-950 fps range thes were shot thru a Redhawk and were pleasent to say the least. I have found the 454 to be a little harder to come up with a reduced load due to the size of the case. John Taffin does have a series of light loads for the 454 listed on his web site (sixgunner.com) that might be of help. The final thing I might suggest is trying some 45 colt cases for a lighter load. althought I don't like shooting the shorter cases due to leading in the cylinders. Also you might check with Gary Reeder on his web site as to what he would charge for a muzzle brake on your gun. His work is excellent although the turn around times are getting longer. Good Luck on your quest

Hi jdt634,
Thank you VERY much for your having answered my plea for help on the recoil problem. You touched on the secondary and serious problem---that of noise and flash ! Due to having shot so much over my 68 years, my hearing is nearly shot and I require two hearing aids and the very best, most expensive ear protection money can buy. I hope this info will be enough to push another, younger shooter to do this NOW. I waited too long !
On Wed., I shot a 5 shot group of 1.135" and 4 of them went into 0.685" at 25 yards from a benchrested position. This was with my 2 power scoped Ruger Casull. For ME, that was darned good. The next step will be to take the 1.25 by 4 power scope off my Model 617 and put it onto the Casull.
The load was: Bullet=185 grain Montana Gold JHP: Powder= 6.0 grains of International Clays: primer= Win. Small Rifle: case= *--------* whatever THEY are !
I don't USUALLY shoot lead bullets, and I don't USUALLY shoot "short" brass in my favorite pistols. I quite litterally HATE cleaning lead out of barrels ! I'm hoping that Beartooth will change those habits about the lead bullets. Shooting LIGHT lead bullets, in .38 brass, on LIGHT loadings shoot the same size groups for ME in a Ruger GP 100 with scope ( I'm nearly blind also) as I can get with the .357 brass.
I'll follow your suggestions, for which I am very grateful. Those ****ed .454 fullhouse loads are too much for this old man, but nice to have for either two or four-footed predators.
Happy Holidays and God bless you.
csward

Hi, Mr. Ward:
*--------* is Starline brass. Logical if you think about it. The first I saw was 10mm Auto reformed to 9x25 Dillon, and it kept me scratching my head for 6 months.

Get the lead out with a strip of copper Chore Girl wrapped around an old barrel brush. A half dozen strokes cuts out as much lead as half an hour with a barrel brush and solvents.

Bye
Jack

Hi Jack,
Thank you for the tip in getting "the lead out" of guns. Now if I could get it out of parts of my body I'll be all set.

I got the brass with the Ruger Casull when I traded it for a new, but worthless, Ruger Ranch Rifle. Thanks for the ID of Starline brass. Like you, I didn't make the connection at all with the headstamp. I've not run any tests with it yet as locally sold brass sells for $45 per` 100. It will be a while before I can get off the cycle of shoot-reload-shoot-reload, etc.. Maybe I'll buy a few just to weigh and measure, etc I can buy them one at a time. Ten wouldn't kill me, but it might make me cringe a little. ha ha
Your lead tip is a real winner, Jack. I'd hereto fore used all chemicals and bore brushes and lots of cuss words to get it out.
Your knowledge of our sport amazes and pleases me to read, Jack. Thanks for helping guys like me. Have a Happy Holiday season and God bless you.

csward

Jack,
Me again.
Please call me "Chuck".

csward

Hi, Chuck:
Thank Marshall Stanton for the Chore Girl tip.

Bye
Jack

hey chuck
jump over to the handguns section and checkout Loaders reply to "Taming the SHR 454" using the new Hodgon longshot powder and a 360g cast bullet at about 1070fps I would think the 335 g would work as well. this would make a great hunting load for deer sized game. I have gotten 3 in groups at 100yds using this cast bullet at 1400 fps recoil is stout. Can't wait to try your plinking load and some of the longshot loads. guess I'm going to have to run a phone line to the loading room where I can feed both habits. gone to reload will let you know how it turns out. good shooting

Hi jdt634,

That load came from God only knows where. But the Hornady web shows 6.5 grains of Universal Clays with the 185 JHP bullet as being their STARTING load in the 45 L.C. ! This shows a MV of only 786 fps ( I think). So the 6.0 gr Universal would be barely enough to get to the target.
So today, I reloaded 25 Caslls using 6.4 grains of Universal. Man how I love that powder ! It measures exactly and shoots so very clean !
Why didn't you tell me how many grains of the HS-6 powder you use ? What primer do you use ? I've read somewhere that Ruger has tested that gun at 90,000 psi with no ill effects to the GUN !
I'm impressed with 3" groups with a handgun of hunting quality. Were the groups with scope or what sights ?
Thanks for the tip on the 360 gr load. I'll do that after I send this.
I think that I'm going to have Garey Reeder put a m uzzle break on the Casull. I asked about felt recoil. He says he shot an AFRICAN buffalo using a TC in .300 Winchester Magnum. The previous week before he left , without the brake, he said he had trouble keeping the gun off his forehead. After the brake, there was very little lift off the bi-pod and very little rearward movement, but that the NOISE was **** ! I suspect that that $140 will be the best money I'll ever spend !
Keep in touch, Mr. jdt634, and good shooting !

chuck

Hi, Chuck:
I forgot to mention that you can clean the forcing cone by pulling a little Chore girl lose and rolling it into a doughnut on the brush. Do it while the brush is pushed through into the frame opening, then pull it back into the forcing cone and twist your cleaning rod.

Scissors cut the Chore Girl easily, but you're get a bunch of loose half loops. So don't let them drop into the living room carpet. :D

I forgot about the forcing cone trick because I was fairly churned up at the time. Our provincial firearm safety association was getting some money from the Federal government to teach their haywire safety course. Our funding is cut off completely as of January 31th/03. Now they can waste a Billion loonies on a worthless registration scheme, but they can't find half the price of a new house to educate the children in a province of a million people. We charged $25, which is all some families can afford and a tenth of what it costs in Ontario. They always say it's about safety and for the children, but we all know that you teach them young if you what to keep them safe. This was the open line radio topic when I sent that post.

I know this is off topic, but I just had to blow off steam. I'll leave you gents to your wrist breakers now.

Bye
Jack

Hi Jack,
You can blow off steam to me any old time you want. I agree with you entirely. So doing so to me is like a preacher preaching to the choir.
Thanks for the Chore Girls tip, Jack I'll have to read it a couple of times as I didn't "get it" the first time around.
President Bush is going to have his own "Youth Firearms Training Program", just as soon as he can get some phony-baloney reason to send them into Iraq. Not all kids are raised on farms and gun regulations are getting tiresome and very restrictive. So----" let George do it !"
chuck

Mr. CSWard,

Interesting how on this one site I have run across people in areas that I have lived.


I have several friends in the Tacoma, Puyallup area. One goes back to my days as a Recruit at MCRD San Diego.

My wife and I bought our first house there on the edge of Spanaway and Graham.

We both hope to someday return. I miss the mountains even though I was born and grew up in the flatlands. At least I have the knowledge of brush, piney woods, desert, and mountain terrain and each of their own particular beauty.

Thankyou.

Hi Buzzard1,
Glad you wrote. I was incorrect about that website. It is actually, Gary Reeder Custom Guns.
If you ever get up our way, give is a call and we'd love to visit with you, shoot with you, whatever.
I was stationed at Ft Hood in 1958 and half of 1959. We lived in Flat, Texas, which had only 30 people there and four of us were Army folks. I loved the people, the hunting and the fishing. Ranchers and farmers would leave ammo in their mailboxes if I'd shoot dogs, cyotes, foxes and, yes, deer. If I didn't poach deer and exceed the fish limits, our little family wouldn't have eaten very well.
This area has turned to sh*t since 1960, but maybe so has my body and mind ---so it all works out I guess.
Keep in touch, Buzzard1.
chuck

Chuck,

We're up to our armpits in deer the last few years (and most of the rest of Texas too). Come back down and shoot all you can. Took a trip between Austin and Junction (about 2 1/2 hours) last weekend and I swear we saw a dead deer for every mile of highway.

Hi MikeG,
I cannot thank you enough for your information that I'd give anything to enjoy with you ! I'm 68 , soon to be 69, and I've led a very active life, each p0art of which has taken its toll on various parts of my body. I can remember back to when each body part took a hit with something or other as they were traumatic happenings. There is little I can do besides shopping, a little yard work, flying RC planes very seldom, flying stunt kites very very seldom anymore and MY BELOVED SHOOTING ALMOST EVERY WEDNESDAY. Then I spend the time between Wednesdays reloading and doing those things mentioned in between times of pure joy ! Gone are golfing, fishing, hunting, camping, touring in my motorhome ( to be sold soon) and sightseeing.
You are a wonderful person ( as every Texan was that I ever met) to welcome me to your bountiful, wonderful state. I wish you a great and happy holiday season and all the best that God can give you for all time to come.

chuck

csward
Not intended as a flame-but why would you get a 454 Casull knowing you had hand /wirst problems? Reason I asked is unless you intend to just shot 45 LC light loads your not getting the potential of the 454. So you would have been better off getting a 45 LC BH. Cheaper too!

HI GUNNUT45/454,

I DID NOT BUY THE .454. I DID NOT WANT A .454. I HAD BOUGHT A RUGER RANCH RIFLE THAT WAS A TERRIBLE MISTAKE AND I WANTED TO DISPOSE OF AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. I HATED IT.

I DO LOVE LARGE, HEAVY HANDGUNS, BUT NEVER A .454.

A FRIEND'S SON HAD THIS .454 WHICH HE WAS HAVING TROUBLE RELOADING FOR. I TRIED TO SHOW HIM HOW TO DO IT PROPERLY, BUT BY THEN HE WANTED TO DISPOSE O0F IT AS BADLY AS DID THE RANCH RIFLE. HE SUGGESTED A TRADE. I ACCEPTED THE TERMS, TELLINJG HIM ALL THAT I DISLIKED ABOUT THE RANCH RIFLE AND MANY OF RUGER'S PRODUCTS. ALL THAT GLITTERS IS NOT ALWAYS GOLD.

HE IS HAPPY WITH THE RANCH RIFLE. THAT HE CAN KICK ROCKS UP ONTO A TARGET IS PLENTY CLOSE ENOUGH FOR HIM.

I AM HAPPY TO PUNCH CLOVER LEAFS IN PAPER TARGETS. THIS .454 HAS PROVEN IT CAN DO THIS AND WILL BE DEVELOPED ALONG THESE LINES. I DOUBT THAT ANYONE, EVEN YOU, CAN DO THAT WITH THE HEAVY LOADS IN THE .454.

I HAVE KILLED MY LAST GAME ANIMAL WITH GUN OR BOW AND DO NOT NEED THE POWER AVAILABLE OF THE .454, BUT IT IS NICE TO HAVE FOR TWO OR FOUR FOOTED PREDATORS. IN SUCH CASE, I DOUBT THAT I'D NOTICE RECOIL.

I ALSO GAVE AWAY MY CHERISHED S&W 629 CLASSIC, AND OTHER GUNS, AND DIDN'T KINOW HOW MUCH I'D MISS THAT 1 1/2", THREE-SHOT`100 YARD TACKDRIVER ( BIG TACKS).

MY HEARING IS NEARLY GONE, BUT I SPENT BIG BUCKS ON THE BEST ELECTRONIC EAR PROTECTORS AND THEY SHIELD ME FROM ANYTHING OVER 85 DB ( MOST ONLY GO DOWN TO 100 DB).

SO, WITH MY HEARING NOW PROTECTED, MY LOVE FOR LARGE, HEAVY HANDGUNS BEING ABLE TO LAY ON A SANDBAG LIKE A DOG AT MY FEET BY A FIRE, I'M BACK IN THE GUN BUSINESS OF LOAD DEVELOPMENT, ETC..

THERE ARE MANY REASONS WHY PEOPLE DO THINGS AND MOST REASONS ARE LOST TO THOSE WHO ASK WHY. THE REST OF THOSE ( A MINORITY) JUST WANT TO EITHER SATISFY THEIR CURIOSITY OR TO BE GIVEN A CHANCE TO DISPLAY WHAT THEY CONSIDER THEIR CHANCE TO DOSPLAY THEIR OWN GREAT KNOWLEDGE TO THE LESSER INFORMED PEOPLES.

IN THE OFF CHANCE THAT THIS LENGTHLY REPLY WILL AID SOME ONE, I OFFER IT TO THIS ESTEEMED FORUM---AND TO YOU, SIR, MR. GUNNUT, IN THE HOPES YOU WILL HAVE A HAPPY HOLIDAY SEASON AND THAT GOD WILL BLESS YOU ALWAYS.

CSWARD ( CALL ME, CHUCK, PLEASE)
:) :D

csward;

Keep the 454 whatever you shoot out of it. Just for bragging rights to you buddies. We value your experience and presence here so stay online.

I have a passion for heavy rifles and pistols myself.

Don

HI DON,
ANYTHING I SHOOT NOWADAYS IS MORE BY ACCIDENT THAN ANYTHING ELSE, BUT i HAVE MADE MANY FRIENDS WITH WHOM I CORRESPOND OUTSIDE THE FORUM. YOU ARE PROBABLY CORRECT ABOUT KEEPING SOME THINGS OFF THE FORUM, AND I'LL TRY TO BE MORE THOUGHTFUL OF THAT.
I VALUE THE INTEGRITY, SKILLS AND EXPERIENCES THAT FOLKS ON THE FORUM HAVE TRIED TO USE IN MY BEHALF. BUT I'M ONLY HUMAN. MAYBE i SHOULD HAVE ANSWERED WITH SOMETHING LIKE," BECAUSE I WANT TO." AND LEFT IT AT THAT. MAYBE NEXT TIME I WILL.
HAVE A HAPPY HOLIDAY SEASON AND GOD BLESS YOU.

CHUCK

Hey Chuck
Check out Gary Reeders latest offering for the real crazies the 500 Linebaugh Maximum BMF. The BMF is a 4 in barreled 5 shot packing gun capable of firing a 450g slug above 1500 fps. Just thinking about ought to make shooting the 454 a little smoother. Talked to Gary this afternoon and my new 500 Linebaugh Black Widow is on its way after a 9 month wait. Can't wait to get it into action, will let you know how it goes. Good shooting and Have a happy holiday season.
Jon T in SE Idaho

HI JON T,

I DON'T WANT TO READ ANYTHING ABOUT SOMEONE SHOOTING A LINEBAUGH 500 MAXIMUM BMF AS I'M AFRAID I WOULDN'T SLEEP WELL WORRYING ABOUT THE SHOOTER'S PHYSICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH.

WHILE I ADMIRE THOSE PERSONS LIKE YOURSELF WHO TACKLE A PROJECT LIKE THE LINEBAUGH BLACK WIDOW, I QUAKE AT THE THOUGHT AT MY DOING THAT. DID YOU GET ONE OF GARY'S MUZZLE BRAKES , OR IS THIS A SUICIDE ATTEMPT ?

PLEASE DO LET ME KNOW ABOUT YOUR INITIAL THOUGHTS AND EMOTIONS AND RANGE RESULTS. MY CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR COURAGE. QUESTION: ARE YOU GOING TO DOWNLOAD IT TO SOMETHING LIKE A .454 WITH MAX LOADS JUST TO GET USED TO IT ? HA HA HA HA

That .500 stuff sounds truly painful! If I want to shoot 5 450 grain slugs, I'll put three in the mag of my .458 rifle and reload once (or 5 slugs in my Rem 870 shotgun)!

Chuck, reloading is all about what you are doing - tailoring a load to a specific purpose. Somewhere in between the 'Cowboy Action' loads and the 'elephant repellant' you'll find something that works for you. At least with the SRH you have a heavy gun to dampen recoil.

Just always take a box of factory .454 ammo to the range with you (but don't shoot them yourself). When your buddies want to shoot it, use those to load the gun. They'll think you're one heck of a man for the way you handle that cannon!

The best (only) way to tame the 454 is to shoot it in a Single Action design. They're designed to flip up in the hand, and not accellerate straight back into the web of your hand like the SRH, and Contender. A 4 port Magna port further delays your visit to the orthpedic surgeon.
The only downside to the FLIP, is the skull fracture that the front sight will give you if you relax your grip and ELBOWS, while bench resting it.

I can't begin to imagine what Factory loads would feel like in a SRH, or Contender, let alone maxed heavy cast bullets. I have compared Factory, and heavy cast max 44 mag loads in my 7.5" RSB vs a 10" TC. The TC was painful with Factory loads after 40 rounds, each shot hurting progressively more. With the SBH, I can bounce soda cans @ 100 yds all day long . RE: the max cast loads, fortunately its frame was stretched after several rounds, (the frame opened after the round was fired), so I couldn't shoot enough to need a hand transplant. They were extremely painful, and not fun. The 44 TC bbl has been retired to the 44 spc target range.

By contrast, my 14" TC 358JDJ, shooting a 250 gr bullet (same factory weight), 50% higher powder charge, higher MV than the 454 is a "slow straight back-push that is a pleasure". The recoil pulse curve for the 454 is too fast/severe for any design other than a Single Action. That's why Linebaugh and Bowen use Bisley grip shaped SA's only. I don't believe that this (recoil vs. grip design) is mentioned in Rugers or TC's catalog.

The only other way to tame a 454 is to purchase a .475, or .45 WILDEY Survivor. This work of art, is a gas operated, rotary bolt autolaoader, in SS, whose cartridges equal the casull . The 475 handles 250-350 Jacketed only. The 45 handles 250-300 gr Jacketed heads, and can be purchased as a conversion unit if you already have the 475. It produces a gentle push into the hand, compared to the Casull, and will shoot a ragged hole@25yds. You can easily go 100 rounds, pain free, just a bit sore.

Cheers

The Black Widow arrived the day before Christmas and I have shot up all the ammo purchased from Bufflo Bore. I decided to use their 435g at 950fps to get started and for cases to reload. The Black Widow is built with a modifyed Bisley grip (rounded off on lwr rear) First impression is more of a push than a sharp recoil due, I feel, to the lower operating pressures of the 500 Linebaugh (40k) as compared to the 454 (50k +). I don't really see any improvement in the Bisley grip over the standard single action grip on either my Ruger SBH or my FA mod 83 both of which roll up in the hand and tend to reduce the recoil. (in my opinion) The Bisley is somewhat easier to control but tends to pound the palm of my hand more.
In my experience with the 454 loads, the ones that give me the most felt recoil are the lighter 260g loads at 1900+ fps operating at 55000+ cup. The recoil is sharp and comes straight back, compared with the 300 and 360g loads at 1700 and 1450 fps which tend to have a slower recoil impulse and rolls in the hand.
Even though the 500 Linebaugh is capable of 1400 fps with the 435g bullets I am attempting to find a reload that will shoot at 1200-1300 with the 435-450g cast and 1000-1100 with the 525g cast. My Widow was ordered with a 5 1/2 in barrel and will be used with the standard iron sights. Hopefully within bow range.
We have had over a week of snow and clouds here in SE Idaho so I haven't been to the range with the crono and reloads yet, but will follow up with the load development as it continues somewhere in this forum.
My hopes for a great 2003 to all of you

Congratulations on your Black Widow. I had seriously considered one of these a couple of years ago. I understand that Reeder does outstanding work. The 500 is a great round. Great way to start off the New Year!!!!

HI 634JDT,

THANK YOU FOR YOUR THOUGHTS, AND THOSE OF YOU OTHER GUYS, FOR HELPING ME UNDERSTAND THAT I HAVEN'T TURNED INTO A CHICKEN AND CAN'T STAND SOME PAIN. IT IS GOOD TO KNOW I'M NOT GOING NUTS, AS MY WIFE KEEPS TELLING ME.

I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS-----ABOUT ANYTHING RELATED TO THE HAND-KILLERS . GARY WON'T INSTALL A BRAKE ON THE RSRH, BECAUSE RUGER TOLD HIM THAT THEY USE A SPECIAL TECHNIQUE TO CO9NNECT BARREL AND FRAME. GARY RECOMMENDED TO ME THAT I SEND THE GUN TO9 MAG-NA-PORT WITH INSTRUCTIONS TO HAVE THEM DO A "MAGNUM 5 PORTING JOB". THIS WHAT HE DOES WITH RSRH REVOLVERS THAT HE WANTS TAMED.

WHEN I SELL MY SHOTGUNS, I THINK I'LL DO EXACTLY WHAT GARY RECOMMENDS PLUS HAVE HAVE AN ACCURIZING JOB DONE ON THE MONSTER. THE NEXT STEP WILL BE WHATEVER BEARTOOTH RECOMMENDS TO DO TO TAKE CARE OF RELOADING CONSIDERATIONS.

I HAVE A 30-30 CAL. IN A CONTENDER 14" AND A SCAR IN MY RIGHT EYEBROW CAUSED FROM NOT HOLDING ON TIGHT TO IT WHEN FIRED FROM A BENCH RESTING ON A HARRIS BI-POD. IT ALSO RIPPED A SHORT CUT IN THE WEBBING OF MY RIGHT HAND THAT HAD A "PAST RECOIL GLOVE ON IT.

I GUESS MY WIFE'S ABUSE JUST HASN'T EVER BEEN ENOUGH PUNISHMENT AND I NEED BIG PISTOLS TO KICK THE **** OUT OF ME.

INCIDENTLY, I CARRY ALL THESE BIG MOTHERS IN SHOULDER HOLSTERS SO I HAVE BOTH HANDS TO BE FREE TO EITHER FIGHT OFF MY OLD LADY OR TO PART THE WAY THROUGH THE BRUSH, WHICHEVER.

THANKS AGAIN, AND PLEASE KEEP ME POSTED ON YOUR PROGRESS. HAVE YOU TRIED HYPNOSIS ? IT REPORTEDLY WON'T PREVENT PHYSICAL DAMAGE-------- JUST MAKE YOU NOT CARE.

:D CHUCK

Chuck,
The worst recoil from a handgun that I can remember came from a 10in Contender in 357max. It had only iron sights so at its min weight. We were hunting whitetails in Kansas I was shooting my 454. As guys do we decided after an unsuccessful morning hunt to test fire each others choice of weapons. The Contender was loaded with a 170g cast bullet used for steel rams at 200 yds (IMSA). The configuratin of that pistol just did not fit my hand and when fired the recoil came straight back into the web of my hand and felt like I had lost a thumb. To this day I refuse to fire a Contender pistol, by the way the owner of the contender still has it but hunts with a FA 454.
This brings up the point of fit, We all think of it when firing a hunting rifle or shot gun but tend to overlook the fact that handguns just don't fit everyones hand. I find the Ruger SRH confortable to shoot (at least in the 480) but you may get some relief from trying some different grips. Cheaper than Mag-n-port, especially with the shipping charges what they are.
There is another thread going on having to do with sabot rounds that opens up a whole new use for the 454 and seems to ruduce the rocoil without sacrificing accuracy.
If I can figure out how to attach a photo to a thread I would post a shot of the Widow. help out there?

HI JDT634,

YEP YOU ARE CORRECT. I JUST INSTALLED A NEW SET OF HOGUE GRIPS AND WILL TRY ANOTHER SET IF I THINK THEY'LL HELP. I HAVE HAD PACHMAYER GRIPS ON MY CONTENDER FOR AS LONG AS I HAVE NOT SHOT THE 30-30 FACTORY LOADS IN IT--------SINCE 1986 HA HA HA, I REMEMBER THE YEAR VERY CLEARLY IT HURT SO BADLY. IT HURT WORSE THAN WHEN I BLEW UP A S&W CLASSIC 629 IN .44 MAG IN 1990 AND THE TWO CHAMBERS NEXT TO THE ONE UNDER THE HAMMER----QUITE A SURPRISE AND QUITE PAINFUL..

I JUST BOUGHT A FEW SAB0TS AND 180 GRAIN .358 BULLETS.
THESE WILL ONLY BE WORTH MESSING WITH UNLESS I CAN GET ABOUT 2,000 FPS AND ACCURACY AT THE SAME TIME. OTHERWISE I MIGHT JUST AS WELL KEEP SHOOTING MY .357 WITH 160 GR BULLETS AT 1550 FPS.

MY EXPERIENCE WITH SABOTS GOES BACK A BUNCH OF YEARS AND I BOUGHT .44 SABOTS AND LOADED THEM WITH 90 GRAIN 9MM BULLETS AND ENOUGH POWDER TO DO TRICKS WITH-----LIKE SETTING A PINK GRAPEFRUIT ON TOP OF A FOUR FOOT LONG 4" X 4" POST AT 10 FEET FROM A BENCH. RESULTS: 1. THE GRAPEFRUIT WOULD DISAPPEAR WITHOUT A TRACE OF JUICE, RIND, SEEDS OR ANYTHING ELSE. NO JOKE. I'D HAVE TO REP0EAT THE STUNT AND COUNT DOWN TO "BANG" SO THE OBSERVERS WOULD BE SURE NOT TO BLINK THEIR EYES ! NOT EVEN A MIST WOULD BE LEFT IN THE AIR ! 2. I COULDN'T GET THE 9MM BULLET TO HIT ON AN 8 1/2" X 11" WHITE PAPER AT 25 YARDS. SO I JUST KEPT THEM AROUND FOR THE GRAPEFRUIT STUNT.

SOME OF THE SABOTS WERE NOT PRELOADED AND I'LL LOAD SOME WITH 9MM BULLETS OF 124 GRAINS THIS TIME IN THE .454 CASES ND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

THANKS FOR YOUR THOUGHTS, AS THEY ARE IMPORTANT TO ME. GOOD LUCK, GOOD SHOOTIN' AND GOD BLESS YOU.

CHUCK













:)

I bought a set of Uncle Mikes shooting gloves, they really help. As far a wrist problems, maybe a wrap of sorts. I have reduced the loads I shoot everyday from mine as well, I find that a 335gr LFNGC bullet at 1450 to 1500 is every bit as effective as the same bullet at 1650 for my purposes, just not as easy to hit at 200 yards. Mine will still cloverleaf just about anything, provided it is moving along at a fair clip, doesn't seem to care for the cowboy loads I made up a while back, between it and my Super Blackhawk, I have two of the most accurate handguns I have ever shot, and I've been shooting them for 29 years.

HI BEEMAN,
THANKS FOR THE TIPS YOU'VE GIVEN ME.

I WASN'T AWARE THAT UNCLE MIKES MADE RECOIL GLOVES, AND WILL CHECK THEM OUT.

MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE .44 MAG IN EITHER S&W OR RUGER GUNS WAS THAT THE HEAVIEST BULLET TRAVELING AS FAST AS I COULD GET IT TRAVELING DOWN RANGE WOULD GIVE THE TIGHTEST GROUPS----PRETTY MUCH WHAT YOU SAID, BEEMAN.

NICE TO MEET YOU.

:) CHUCK

After all, hitting your target is the first rule right? The terminal performance is still excellent, it takes a lot of matter to stop a 360gr bullet travelling at 1300fps.