Hi,I'm looking for help in choosing a brush gun for deer,I live in NJ and have only ever hunted with a shotgun,an 870 with Foster slugs,its worked,I'd like to move and am wondering what to get if we move to a state that allows rifles?I can't imagine hunting in anything other than thick woods,its what I like,a couple of the rifle/cartridge combos I'm thinking about are;1894P/.44,336/.35 and a 7600 carbine/30-06,what do you all think?I'd also like suggestions on a scope,please?Thanks for any help?

I hunt with a Ithica DeerSlayer II, .12 gauge, w/rifled Sluggs here in Ohio , topped with a leopold 1 X4 Shotgun Scope, and its been making Bacon for years, normally one shot, one kill:)

If ya get the bug for a brush gun (I hate that term), Marlin 336 in 35 Remington, w/200grain SP is great,
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I own a Marlin 94 Cowboy, w/24 inch tube in .45Colt , with a Marble Tang rear and a Pin Head Fire Sight out front,
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I would love to use that for a 100 yd brush gun ,up close and personnel:)

With one of Marshall's 280gr WFN or 300 grain LFN, at about 1200 to

1300 fps ,

I am quite sure they would take care of business with Authority!!:)

Have a great day Pard

Northman you have listed some good cartridges. The 35 Rem. in a Marlin levergun is fun and effective. I have a blast with mine. Also the 30-06 carbine you mentioned would be fine medicine for the woods. And just to make more things complicated for you ;) since you mentioned Rem. and Carbine How about the 750 Woodmaster 35 whelen Carbine. Good Luck!

Jason

And just to make more things complicated for you ;) since you mentioned Rem. and Carbine How about the 750 Woodmaster 35 whelen Carbine. Good Luck, Jason

I just picked up a book titled "Why not load your own" by Col. Townsend Whelen. It's the fourth edition copyright 1957. Not that it may bear much resemblence with todays powders, he recommended not less than 24" tubes with that caliber and preferably 26".

Try a Ruger Deerfield .44 mag Carbine and Cor-Bon 44 mag hunting loads. Took one spike through some moderate brush at a friend farm in W.VA. It went down after 3 steps and fell on it's nose and went to the freezer.

Budd

Thanks for the response guys,I've ruled out autos as there' always the chance of moving to PA where you can't hunt with them.
NM

id go with a 7600 i use one in a .257 roberts only its a 760 with metal dust shield, but its a great gun for woods and it can cut brush and still kill deer, the pump is a great action for reloading when u dont have the time to waste unshouldering it to reload and risk losing ur target, for a scope any leupold 3-9 or 4-12, they are one of the clearest scopes available, and the heat/fog/snow/ or ground temperatures dont steam the lense, from goin to walking acrosss a snow coveredwindy hill, into a calm warmer valley, or froma warm truck to the cold air, the lense stays clear and if u have a 12x thats another three powers if u happen to hunt over a calm corn fields, mines a vxII

I'll put in a vote for the Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70. That's my "Brush Gun". The Outfitter in 444 would be a good choice too. Either way you get a large slug with a short barreled gun that is extremely handy in heavy woods.

I live out in the West where you can both be in the brush and still have an across the canyon shot. Here's what I got my Grand daughter for her deer rifle. It's a Remington model 7 carbine in 308 with an 18.5 inch barrel. This little carbine is good for shots to 350 yards with a fixed four power Leupold scope on it and it's just qicker than the dickens in the thick brush. It also can be used where you may end up with a 200 yard across the field shot.

You need to keep in mind I'm not a lever kind of guy so don't have any experience with those fine little carbines. I believe that any good cartridge will work in the brush given decent accuracy.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q172/faucettb/Preditor%20masters/700308.jpg

Hey Jersey!

I hunt the same dirt you most likely do, and also hunt the brambly hardwoods of VT., Nh., and PA.
Some of my favorites are short range, short barrelled levers, chambered in:
35 Remington
32 Winchester Special
The venerable 30-30
An 1894 Mariln in 44 mag
and my trusty 45colt chambered Winchester trapper.

In shotguns, I find it's hard to beat a Remington 1187, or 1100, and a pump will work just a fine!
I was experimenting with a 20 gauge bolt shotgun for a bit, using rifled lead slugs. Found it worked as well as any rifle, out to 100.

Check around for a used Remington youth Model 7 in 7mm 08 with 18 1/2" barrel and the walnut finished beech or alder stock. These had a shorter length of pull but add a coat and moderately heavy shirt and that short stock fits pretty well. A 2-7 Leupold fits well and covers all aspects that the rifle and cartridge are fit for.

Northman, you have a good list. I have come to enjoy something quick and light with punch. I can use it in a stand where I sit all do watching a single trail with a 30 yd shot or sit ove a corn pile for the evening with a 125 yd last of legal light neck shot for camp meat, or carry it all day sneaking in and out of gulllies and thick cover. Any of the new light rifles in 06 will fit the bill. Mine is the Tikka 3 Lite with a Bushnell Banner for now. It remains to be seen how long I can keep the large adjustable objective offerings off of it for those last minute of shooting light shots.

Browning BLR, 358 Win.

If you are pleased with a 870 pump shotgun I suggest a Remington pump rifle like the 7600 carbine in 30-06 that you mentioned.

Anyone who doubts the effectiveness, reliability and handiness of these guns should check out the story of Larry Benoit, or his sons (Benoit Brothers). Google the name and you will find lots of info on how they killed really big deer in New England states year after year with Remington pump carbines in 30-06 and .270.

To learn about one man's experience with the Remington pumps in 35 Whelen go to

http://www.35cal.com/

i use a remington 700 adl .30-06. it has a 22" barrel which isnt exactly a length great for brush but it works well for me. another good choice is the marlin in a 30-30. great gun thats hard to beat and the great thing about the marlin is u dont have to get an offset scope like u do on the winchester. if u get the new hornady ammo, i would think that you could down anything u wanted in the area you are talking about with a 30-30. just my $.02

Another to look at is the Browning BLR, in various calibers.
I own the .308 lightweight, a great hunting gun. Scoped it with a Burris 1.75-5x scope, and it seems to work well.

Hi northman, I used a Browning BLR in a 308 caliber and it worked real well. I found it was easier to reload for than the Remington pump and it has a little stronger action.
Another good is the Remington Model 7 or if you can a good used 788.
I am now waiting for a 35 Whelen I bought and it has a Douglas barrel and mauser action on a wooden stock. I owned the rifle very briefly a few years ago when I still had the 375 H & H. Now that I no longer own the 375 I bought back the 35 Whelen.

As mentioned twice above, I too vote for the Browning BLR. If you are a handloader, the .358 Winchester is probably the most under-recognized big game hunting cartridge. With 200, 225, and 250 grain bullets available, it's performance is so close to the 35 Whelen that no game animal would be able to tell the difference. Plus, you get this in a compact carbine with a 20 inch barrel. It is not really limited to short range brush type hunting. With a Hornady 200 grain spire point or Sierra's and Nosler's 225 grain bullets, 250 yard shots are within reach. The down side is that Winchester produces the factory load in only the 200 grain loading, and at that, only on an infrequent basis.

I use both a Rem 760 .30-06 carbine and a Marlin 1894 C .44 Mag as "Brush Guns" in Pennsylvania. The 760 wears a 2-7X variable scope and the 1894 wears an aperture rear sight with a fiber-optic front sight. The 760 in nice weather and the 1894 in wet weather. One disadvantage of pumps is difficulty to use shooting sticks when sitting on a stand. Years ago I felt the pumps were much faster, but lately I think I'm almost as fast with a bolt action and the shorter barrel length is the main advantage. The 336 .35Rem would also be a good choice. A disadvantage of a low power scope in brush is in wet weather when the water droplets from either rain or vegetation get on the scope and even flip up scope covers cannot be "flipped up" quickly enough. If a scope is used, I'd recommend staying as low power as possible - either a 2 1/2x fixed or a 1 1/2-5x or 2-7x variable.

350 Rem mag, more power that the 444 and you get to use pointed bullets!

Northman, do you load?

Thanks guys for all the great suggestions.I've over thought this a lot but it's fun,I'm no longer going to consider the 7600/30-06,for various reasons;the 1894P and 336 come up better;30-06 is a bit over powered for whitetail;I can cycle the 1894P as fast as the 7600 and the 336 just a bit slower without firing,with actually firing the increased recoil of the 30-06 would negate any speed advantage;the 7600 costs at least $125 more than the other two.Can anyone compare the .44 mag to the .35 Rem?While I want a traditional brush gun first,I'm also curious at some of your suggestions on a bolt gun,I shoot LH so my choices are a bit limited,I did see Remington has a new 700 SPS Youth LH 20" bbl in .243/7MM-08 that might be neat.Any ideas on the .243 for whitetail?As far a s scopes,the Leupold 2-7 shotgun scope with the heavy reticle seems like a great choice.M1Garand,no sir I don't reload.m141a,if you don't mind,where abouts are you,I'm in Sussex county.I'm looking forward to reading more,thank-you again

Probably many others will disagree with me on the .243, as I am a big bullet advocate. Several of my friends in the west consider the .243/6mms great for deer and pronghorn - with which I agree if you have time to wait for a broadside shot to the vitals. However in brush hunting in the east you very likely will not get that kind of shot - more likely a quartering away shot at a fast moving animal, so good penetration is needed. Also Pennsylvania has some HUGE black bear which you may want to hunt - I consider the .243 too small for them.

M141a's suggestion of a Browning BLR is good. One friend uses a BLR in .358 for everything up to and including elk in thick cover.

Irv S,thank-you,I didn't think about black bear,we have plenty of them where I live too.The BLR's are good rifle,I had a friend that killed a moose with one in .308 in NS it worked fine,I prefer Marlins though.

The BLR is a great hunting rifle. It is just too heavy for this tired old man. When I need optics, which is really all the time these days, the light bolt is just too handy. Pick up one of the less than 7# wonders and be amazed. With a light scope it will be your favorite gun to carry. When I feel froggy and don't think I will be out in low light I still carry my 1894 Marlin in 44 mag. It has a modified Ashley Ghost ring that has done the job on several occasions and unscoped it beats any of the light bolt guns on weight. It is a joy to carry.

It's not exactly a rifle, but I think a short (20" or so) barreled shotgun with simple iron sights (or simply a front bead and mid-rib bead) with heavy rifled slugs would work pretty well out to 100 yards. My inclination towards the open-sighted shotgun is that I'm used to bringing a shotgun up very fast from a carrying position to a shooting position where I'm right on point to make a shot, especially if the shotgun swings well.

The Marlin 336RC in .35 Rem is hard to beat. Good all around deer, bear, and hog rifle. Plus if you are a hand loader you can load up bulk 158gn HPs for plinking and small game.

I concur with all those suggesting a BLR. If you are going to shoot factory ammo, go with a .308. If you reload, then seriously consider a .358. With a good 225 or 250 grain bullet, you are good to go from 10 yards to 250, on game as large & tough as elk.

I have found BLR's to be extremely accurate, easily surpassing most Remington pumps in this regard ( the pump can still put 4 rounds into a target more quickly for most of us ).

Be careful scopewise. You don't want to alter the inherent lightness & balance of the gun. My .358 has worn a Leupold M8 4X, a Weaver 2.5X, & a Leupold 2.5X. These scopes not only shared compact size & light weight, but also a large "eye box". You could move your head side to side or in & out, & still get a good sight picture. You don't need to waste time adjusting to a fussy scope.

I'll wager that my BLR lightweight '81 weighs as much if not less than a loaded 1894 44 mag.

The BLR short action is 6.5. Exactly the wt. of the 1894. The long action baloons to 7.5#s and the mags are more. I did not realize the .308 in BLR was that light. The ones I handled 10 to 15 years ago seemed heavy and bulky.

Northman,

I too am from Jersey; ex-Sussex,now Warren County. I do alot of rifle hunting in PA. 35 Rem has always treated me well out of the leverguns for deer and black bear. The 44 Mag is also a good choice, but it will shorten your range somewhat compared to the 35 Rem.
Davis's sporting goods in Goshen has a real nice 45-70 Marlin guide gun in stainless steel for sale like new/used for a good price. I dont know if you have started handloading yet or not, but its a fairly easy cartridge to learn on,and you can load a 45-70 down to real pussycat levels, and up to Cape Buffalo levels. That is my caliber of choice in PA, or my 356 Win.(the 358's rimmed kissing cousin)

Good Luck with your choice,
johnny

Irv S,thank-you,I didn't think about black bear,we have plenty of them where I live too.The BLR's are good rifle,I had a friend that killed a moose with one in .308 in NS it worked fine,I prefer Marlins though.

If you prefer Marlin, my vote is for two rounds, the 35 Rem or the 308 Marlin Express. Remington ammo for the 35 Rem is kinda anemic but along with some great loads from Hornady LeverEvolution (https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=646c17dce7fead2e97629f9201d10294&page=shop%2Fbrowse&category_id=2f7af4cf2fbe021994131c5c629a8115) and Buffalo Bore (http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#35rem), you should be ready for any deer or black bear.

My vote would be a marlin 336 in 30-30. I'm getting a 336y (youth) tomorrow. They're only 34 inches long and 6.5 pounds. Great little brush gun.
Can't wait!!:)

i just got thru testing penetratin on what i shoot.. the 336 went thu 6 2by 6 s.
my 30 06 went thu 7 .... not much discearnable difference between factory fusion and
my reloads on either gun..i separated each 2by 4 with half inch spacers..this allowed me to see
results at various depths better ..
conclusion .. the 30-30 was just as effective at 100 yds..i have a red dot on the 30-30
as my eyes are old..it makes for quick target find. if the dots on it ,,shoot..

1895G or 1895GS with moderate handloads or factory loads, or 336 in 30-30 or 35 = perfection for brush... lightweight, quick handling, low to moderate recoil.

My .02

Browning BLR, 358 Win.
Aaarrrrrr... ditto!

http://www.lowe.ca/Rick/Firearms/Images/358WinScoped.jpg


If you're of a mind that insists that "brush guns" must shoot big heavy bullets, it will do that:

http://www.lowe.ca/Rick/Firearms/Images/358CastLoad.jpg

On the other hand, it will do quite nicely whether you want to "heavy up" for gophers or sling 180 grainers at stuff 300 yards away:

http://www.lowe.ca/Rick/Firearms/Images/358WinLoads.jpg

It's my wife's - and she loves it just fine whether we're out trying to ambush a whitetail just before dark, clunking around on a mountain top chasing bighornes, or strolling up grizzly paths through the alders, bugling for bull elk. If you want to annoy her, do as some of the hoary old farts at the gun range do when they wander up to her and say "Nice rifle, but no good past 250 yards". She'll probably ask you the same thing she does them: "How come a 30-06 shooting 180 grain bullets at under 2800 fps is fine for 300 yards, but a .358 shooting a 180 grain bullet faster than that just doesn't cut it".

Funny, nobody seems to have an answer to her question.

Definitely works for her, and she weighs 125 lbs soaking wet with her boots on.

Hello fellas, remember me?
<O:p</O:p
Here is how I see it. In heavy brush, I like a 35 Remington, even heavier brush, I like a lever action 44 magnum and when the brush get too heavy to avoid a rifle getting caught in the brush, I use my Ruger 44 magnum. Works for me!

i live in PA were all my deer shots are short and sometimes through brush. I started out with a 2506 target rifle and learned the hard way you dont need a gun that can shoot a quarter at 500 yards to hunt in PA. my next choice was a 300 win mag for knock down and bush clearing. that one is gone also. so after all that i finally settled on a ruger M77 compact in 308 win. i wish someone would have told me about this gun to start with but i didnt know about the forum then or im shore someone would have pointed me in the wright direction. this gun is a great shooter and isnt limited to short range work only. its very light and short wich works great for those long hikes and heavy brush. hey good luck hope this helps and let me know how you make out.

Well, I live in NJ for the moment, and hunt all over North America for deer, antelope, elk, etc.

Bob's suggestion of a M7 .308 would be a tough choice to beat. I have a M70 Compact in 7mm-08, no longer available, that I prefer as a caliber, very nearly the same.

But a compact rifle from the remaining manufacturers, in .308, .338 Federal, 7mm-08, .358 Win. would all be a really good choice.

The .44 carbines are nice, but lack the range of flexible performance of the '08 variants in any caliber.

A 7600, .30-06 carbine, (I have a 7600 Whelen), would also be a super choice. And 7600's SHOOT!

I'd scope every one of the above with a Nikon or Leupold 2X-7X scope.

I'm always tickled with all the suggestions! If this thread stayed on top long enough you would end up with a recommendation for every type of action in every type of caliber!

I'm a Marlin guy so my comments would follow that line. I have every model/caliber offered and have enough problems deciding which one gets to go hunting on any given day as they are all good!

As a cartridge favorite, I do like the 35 Remington. It has a lot of potential that the handloader can benefit from. Though rare, a Remington pump or 600/660 bolt action would be sweet! The only non-Marlin I own is a Savage 170 pump. These rifles were chambered in both 30-30 Win and 35 Rem with either a rifle or carbine barrel. It is not uncommon to find them on the auction sites and they are priced very reasonable. I would imagine that they could be found in the used racks of the neighborhood gun stores in your part of the world were these types of actions and calibers are popular. I have the 170B rifle (22" barrel) chambered in 35 Rem and love it!

http://www.ranchdogmolds.com/images/Firearms/Sav_170B02.jpg

I think the 170 will become just what the Savage 340 has become. The rifle you find yourself saying you wish you had bought when you had the chance!

I don't know that I have seen one of those. I really like the looks of it. I t looks like it wears optics well too.

I think the 170 will become just what the Savage 340 has become.

The 340 is a great gun!
I currently own a 340C, chambered in 30-30. I put a low powered old Bearcub scope [2.75x] on it, on a quick removal mount by Weaver, and replaced the tired old factory leaf sight with a Marbles rear. It will shoot to moa with factory Remington 170grain ammo, and even better with Marshall's 160 grain leads.
The action of the 340 always reminded me of an SMLE, with it's open top. If you ever come across a 340, buy it!:cool:

I love man guns (what we in IA call Centerfire) but if you follow the guys on the African hunting threads, the PH's use a shotgun when going into the brush.

Shotguns were made to swing fast, point naturally and hit like a rented mule. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. A lot of these guys are the ones that previously said "you can't beat the good ol' Remington Slugger"