Ok here we go...

I just recently caught the big bore bug and can not shake it. I actually sold my Rem 700 AS .270 for a Marlin 1895 45/70, and I tell ya I will never look back.

I have always been into long range shooting, 500 to 1000 meters. I have been using a 300 WSM with very good results. However I would love to start using a big bore...lol

Could a person use a single shot 458 lott, 410/400 Nitro, 510 nitro or the 50 Alsakan. Are these rounds able to make a shot out to 1000 meters?

They are all capable of reaching that distance. The elevation and windage might get you, though. Not going to be the same as your 300 WSM, but can be done - but you are going to get punished while doing it. Recoil and the added expense of shooting big bores have to be considered.

One of the local guys shoots his .45-70 out to 1000 yards or close to it. IIRC, he shoots a Rolling Block with the Regina BPCR club. He has the largest PAST recoil pad. :D

Bye
Jack

Thanks for the reply!

I agree that they will go that distance, but will the low BC bullet still be accurate out there? You are alos right about the punishing recoil of these rounds and the cost. I can some what fix the recoil with a limbsaver and a good muzzle brake. As far as cost goes, I look at it like this I may not be able to shoot as much, but while I am shooting it will be a BLAST!!!

I have a nice Nightforce 12x42-56mm I think that along with a good 20 moa base should get me out there. You guys agree?

All I know is that I couldn't imagine trying putting the time in with 500 Jeffery to be consistently accurate at 1000 yards. My 411 Hawk is different, but that isn't what the rifle was built to do and my practice with it reflects its intended use.

It's not that the big bores aren't capable of fine accuracy, but it certainly can be more challanging because of bullet BC's, recoil, muzzle blast and expense.

I do see your point of view on the subject, and also respect it. Although everyone is entitled to there own thoughts and ideas...ect ect...

I have been shooting out to 1000 meters for about two years now. I am not saying that it is easy, it is far from that and I do mess up from time to time. But I feel that the challenge is great and that is what I am up for.

I was just not sure if it could be done. I thought that maybe other on here have done it.

Thank you for your reply...

I am leaning towards the .458 lott in a Ruger No. 1 Nightforce scope 20 to 30 moa base and a nice big limbsaver...lol...

I just see so many people out there shooting 1000meters with all these big flat shooting mags. Well I want to be different...lol...and have fun

Thanks again everyone for your replies

Big Bore;

I finall stopped drooling over Axtell's 1877 Sharps rifles and bought one (two actually). One is chambered in 40-70SS and the other in 45-90. Both rifles have tang vernior rear sights and globe front sights with interchangeable inserts. It is amazing how well I can shoot through these open sights with my late 60's eyes. I have yet to try 1000 yards, but many BPC Silhoutte and Creedmoor shorters do extremely well at long range.

Stick with the 45/90 for anything 1000yds up<i think youll find that a 40/70 cant cut it out to 1000 yds.Not too accurate past 600yds.Wayne

I love my 45-90. The brass is more expensive than the 45-70, but it is just as easy to load, and since the brass lasts a long time, it's extra cost diminishes over time.

If you are going to shoot smokeless, then the 45-70 is better. The larger cases have too much volume, resulting in low loading densities. If however, you are going to join the ranks of those who shoot "real powder", then the 45-90 (.45 x 2.4) or the 45-100 (.45 x 2.6) really begin to shine. These two cartridges were in very wide use back in the late 19th century for the Creedmoor and other long range target matches.

From comments posted on other forums, oriented to black powder cartridge shooting, I get the impression that the longer cases, 45-110 (.45 x 2.75) and 45-120 (.45 x 3.25) are harder to find accurate black powder loads for. They are not used much in competition due to their heavy recoil.

I love shooting long distance with my 1895 GS . 300 yds is lethal , 600 yds I get 2 to 3 inch groups . Out past 600 yds its real iffy on accuracy as drift gets to you but if you don't mind missing the bulls eye by 6 to 12 inches its still a lottta fun . As a 45-70 shooter you have to be prepared for those who say it cant be done and they will always quote a ballistic calculator and say you cant shoot past 150 yds or so . Just shake your head at them and have fun .

for long range shooting are you using irons, aperatures or scopes..?
I am interested in shooting a ruger 1 and an 1895'c'b
dk

My god this big bore bug has a good hold on me...lol

I don't really know what I am going to do. I started off about 13 years ago, I was 16 years old and I went out with my father to get my first rifle for deer hunting. After all the reading I had done I wanted a small bullet and a big case...lol so I got a Rem 700 AS .270 Win with a Leupold 3x9-40. That was all I had used for deer, bear and moose. Then about two years ago I started getting into long range shoot so I went out and got a 300WSM. Now about two months ago I was at the range and I was talking to an older guy who was shooting a rifle (at that time I thought a cannon) that had these huge rounds laying beside it. I aske him about it and the first thing he said was "son I can't explain it you just have to shoot it" so I did...well...uummm....here I am!!!

I went out about two weeks later and got myself a new Marlin 1895 45/70. I added a new Williams FP sight to increase the range I can shoot. Now I have to say that I am more proud of that gun than I ever was of the Rem 700. I plan on using the 45/70 for whitetale deer, black bear and moose.

Once I started playing with the gun at the range I realized just how far I was about to shoot the thing. I was hitting a 12"x12" steel plate at 200 meters. I tried to go to 300 meter but with the factory sights I just could not do it. After putting the Williams FP on it I was out to 300 no problem. It was at this point that I thought wow I really got to get me one of these in a single shot long barrel. Now I have no idea what to get and this is where I caould us some help form you guys. I don't know to get a Ruger No1, uberti high wall, sharps. I do know that I will use smokless powder for now anyway. as for sights I was thinking if I got the Ruger No 1 I would get a nightforce and see just how accurat the gun is.

My only problem with getting this new play toy for the range is that I am working an another gun as we speak. I am getting a .375 H&H Mag from CZ. I will be shooting that as much as I can to get used to the recoil. This gun will be the new moose gun and it will follow me to Alaska for my dream Brown bear hunt in 2010.

Big Bore:

I can see that you are incurably afflicted! Your only hope is to buy a new rifle. Now....let's see........which one!... Ruger #1? (I have had two).... very nice rifle - but no - too modern. Besides, the big bore choices are brutal magnums - ouch!

How about a Sharps? Here we have real history going for us, as well as a gaggle of big bore cartridge choices. Being legal for black powder cartridge silhouette, and long range matches is another plus. Let's see.......how about an 1874 or 1877 Sharps with a 34 inch barrel in 45-90 or 45-100, Creedmoor style, with a long range vernier tang sight and a front globe sight with a spirit level and inserts - this is as close as paradise gets!

The case volumes of the .45-90 and .458 mag are pretty similar. If you get a .458 mag, you could use the heavy, lead bullets the 1000 yard shooters are using in .45-90s with reduced loads and accomplish a similar goal.

From a purely technical standpoint, the 45-90 case holds 87.69 gr water while the 458 Win is slightly larger at 93.29. (ref: "the Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions") This is about a 6.4% increase, so I would recommend using loading data for the 45-90 rather than the 458 Winchester.

Lyman's #48 Reloading Handbook shows a starting load of 40 grains of IMR 4198 giving a velocity of 1496 fps with the 535 grain 457132 lead bullet (20-1 alloy).

Another difference between the two cartridges is that the 45-90 rifles produced today have a twist of 1 in 20, which may vary slightly with different manufacturers, but basically, this is a black powder cartridge twist. The 458 Winchester on the other hand has a faster twist of 1 in 14 which may foul more with black powder loads.

Bottom line: If you are going to shoot smokeless powder loads with long heavy lead bullets, either cartridge is fine, although you will have to watch carefully for barrel leading. If you want to also be able to shoot black powder loads, the 45-90 is a better choice.

So what will it be....a Ruger #1 or a Sharps? If you ever wish to participate in long range black powder matches, the Sharps would be the one to get, as the Ruger and 458 Win. are not legal. There are of course long range matches for rifles using smokeless cartridges. The Ruger and 458 Win. would be legal, but would not be competitive with cartridges like the 300 Winchester, 30-378, and others that have a higher velocity and flatter trajectory.

Winchester 1885 Creedmore rifles in .45-90 (sold through Davidson's) make some excellent long-range big-bore rifles that can handle some serious loads.

By the way, the Lyman loads for the .45-90 are pretty stout. I started with 45 grains of 4198 (recommended loads run 40 - 48 grs) under a 500 gr. Laser-cast bullet. Out of my 34 inch barrelled 1885 BPCR rifle (shown in my avatar, but now with a Vernier tang sight) the bullet was running 1880 fps, right on the low end of .458 mag loads. In my 12 lb rifle, the recoil would knock the glasses off my face and the brim of my hat would hit the Vernier sight. Of course, it was a blast to shoot! I had to back down quite a bit to get velocities down in the 1500 fps range and cut the recoil down to a more reasonable level. I think I ran the loads down to 35 - 38 grains of 4198, but I would have to check my records at home to be certain. 5744 makes a good smokeless powder for this cartridge as well.

Stick with the 45/90 for anything 1000yds up<i think youll find that a 40/70 cant cut it out to 1000 yds.Not too accurate past 600yds.Wayne45-70 can't do what? The old trapdor 45-70's would knock down bison well out over 1000 yards I think to 1300+ yards and bison aren't small animals .The one I shot on a small 1/4 million acre ranch in idaho weighed approx 2000+ on the hoof.

kiddekop is essentially right about the 45-70, especially if this cartridge is loaded with smokeless powder in a rifle that can withstand more pressure than the Springfield trapdoor (limited to around 20,000 psi).

The fact is, the 45-70 is several distinct cartridges that just happen to occupy the same case. In a nutshell, with smokeless loads, the 45-70 is at least three different cartridges; first, for the trapdoor, second, for the Marlin and newer Winchester 1886's, and three, for the Ruger #1. Definitely three different pressure and velocity ranges - certainly not downwardly interchangeable. Also in the case of the lever action rifles there is an OAL limitation and the need for flat nosed bullets,.

In black powder loadings, the 45-70 takes on two forms; first, flat nosed bullets up to around 405 grains, with OAL limited to 2.550 inches, for use in lever action rifles. The second distinct form is for single shot rifles - again a different cartridge in that the OAL is only limited only by the bullet engaging the rifling in the leade of the chamber. Here, the 45-70 can be loaded with higher ballistic coefficient bullets exceeding 500 grains, and the longer OAL usually permits a slightly larger powder charge as well.

With smokeless powder loads, the 45-70 can easily duplicate the velocities of the old black powder loads in the 45-90, 45-100, and the 45-110. Thus it could be used for target shooting at 1000 yards, although smokeless loads would not be legal for black powder long range and Creedmoor matches.

With black powder loads, the 45-70 is very popular in silhouette matches, which go to 500 meters. However, for long range and Creedmoor matches, 800, 900, and 1000 yards, The 45-90, 45-100, and 45-110 show significant advantages. Actually, at some target facilities, where the spotters are placed in trenches below the targets, they require cartridges to have a muzzle velocity of at least 1200 fps, to keep the trajectory flat enough to keep bullets from falling into the trench. Here the 45-70, with black powder loads usually falls short.

As for shooting buffalo at 1000 yards, well, some of the old timers may have exagerated slightly, especially after a few beers.

Oh! A subject near and dear to my heart!
Winter is leaving Michigan and I have all my ducks in a row to do some casting and shooting. My favorite is a Sharps "Old Reliable" in 45-70. It has a tall tang sight of unknown manufacture, but it seems to work well.
I shoot smokeless, as I am on call a lot and I may only get a shot or two before I have to leave.
Other big bore rifles I shoot for distance with:
1886 New production with a long octagon barrel in 45-90
an original 1885 fixed up and bored for 32-40.
Remington rolling block in 40-70 Sharps Straight.
I also have a Ruger Tropical 1H in 458, but shooting at any distance would require that I keep my eyes open and focused when firing. I'm doing better, now that I have backed off a bit on the powder. With a 500 grain cast bullet and a sane dose of powder, it really is a hoot to shoot. This rifle taught me not to melt lead bullets in the bore. What a mess!
As far as the distance I can shoot, it varies with each rifle. But on a good day with a good tang sight, accuracy is impressive. Learning to estimate range is very important, as the trajectory is nothing like one of my flat shooting Weatherbys.
And as many have stated, the "fun factor" is off the charts! They beat a scoped bolt gun any day!
Bestboss