Hello! New to group, had a question for all...I am building (in design stages right now) a double flintlock system (gun) with interchangable sets of barrels (shotgun/shotgun, shotgun/rifle, express rifle). My primary design models are Manton pieces, and have noticed almost all of his creations have non-removable (platinum) touch hole liners. After an almost disasterous experience with a Pedrosoli rifle with a liner, I have built several long guns with the traditional touch hole, with no ignition issues. This gun, though, is going to have a chambered breech plug, and I will need side access to prperly clean it. My question to all is if a removable, foolproof liner were to be made, what would be an ideal material/ I do not intend to use stainless, and my only remaining option until now has been Ampco A8 bronze alloy...

Any info is appreciated

Mark

I've been using stainless liners for many years - only time you'll have a problem is if they are installed without a certified pure nickel anti-seize to keep the threads from galling. The most common problem I come across is people not using anti-seize of using the wrong anti-seize. The cheap crap they get from the autoparts or hardware store is often worse than using nothing at all. The most common compounds you find are copper, tin, aluminum and lead base anti-seize and they will not withstand the pressure and heat resulting in the liner becoming welded/soldered to the barrel. I only use certified pure nickle nuclear grade anti-seize and yep, the last one pound can I bought was $187 using my industrial discount.

I've used a brass liners too, only problem is the drive slots are easily damaged and you'll be drilling and using an extractor more than you care to.

By "chambered breech plug" I assume you're talking about a "patent breech" plug with a hook that engages the tang. If you take the time to clean up the plug prior to installation - smooth and polish all the internal surfaces and face, you won't need to remove the liner on a regular basis for cleaning because there is nowhere for the fouling to collect.

Had been wondering about what problems you wee having with vent liners before...then realized you take them out to clean. Like the last post, if they are fitted right...where would the fouling collect that required removal?

OR are you expecting the touch hole liner to cross the threads of the breech plug?

Either way, will seldom, if ever, remove the breech plug.

From the pan thru the barrel and into the (chambred) breech plug... Pedrosoli liners always gunked up on me...I only got 2 shots before needing to pipe cleaner and swab.

Mark

Poor quality machine work is the biggest problem. When done properly, the flash channel and chamber area of the breech plug is finished smooth so there are no rough spots. The second part is the liner should not have an exceptionally wide flange on the bore end and I've yet to see an import liner that does not have a wide flange. The bore side of the liner should be tapered and the edge rounded off so there are no flat edges sticking into the flash channel, anywhere you flat spot it's going to collect fouling. On the same note, you can't make the bore side of the liner too thin or it could possible fail, it's just a balancing act. I make no bones about it, I'm no fan of Pedersoli - reason 1 is because I dumped $1400 on a total piece of crap and got zero customer service, when all was said and done I lost $1200 and about 150 hours over the deal; reason two is because I've yet to see anything from Pedersoli even remotely worth what they cost, too many safety issues and an overall lack of quality control.

When I build a gun with a patent breech, I take the time to hone and polish the entire flash channel. Also, when I install a liner. I bore only to the thread depth than change to a smaller bit to continue the hole into the flash channel that is concentric with the bore. That takes alot more time and effort but it eliminates the flange on the liner from sticking into the flash channel.

Now, on the odd chance the machine work is good, heavy breech fouling can be caused by your load. Even with a perfectly smooth flash channel and a properly fitted liner, certain loads will just create a massive amount of fouling. Everyone says you have to run 3F in the small bores but they ain't met the .32 I used to have - no matter what I did or didn't do, you were lucky to get the second ball fully seated because of the fouling. I fought that thing for a number of shots before I decided to try feeding her 2F, had I been smart enough, I would have made the change sooner. Running on 2F, she'd shoot all day and not get fouled out.

Third thing is residual contamination - could be petroleum oils, cleaning solvents, surfactants from cleaning solution/detergent, any of these things can act somewhat like a glue that gives the normal fouling something to grab hold of and/or build up when it would normally be ejected out the flash hole or not be problematic.

The flanged liner was the problem on the Pedro piece-Learn from the mistakes of others, I guess. Yes, the polishing is a no-brainer, plus, having tips for your rod to reach the cavity is a good idea as far as cleaning goes, too, I've found. I am religious about 2f in anything but my pistols.

Hello! New to group, had a question for all...I am building (in design stages right now) a double flintlock system (gun) with interchangable sets of barrels (shotgun/shotgun, shotgun/rifle, express rifle). My primary design models are Manton pieces, and have noticed almost all of his creations have non-removable (platinum) touch hole liners. After an almost disasterous experience with a Pedrosoli rifle with a liner, I have built several long guns with the traditional touch hole, with no ignition issues. This gun, though, is going to have a chambered breech plug, and I will need side access to prperly clean it. My question to all is if a removable, foolproof liner were to be made, what would be an ideal material/ I do not intend to use stainless, and my only remaining option until now has been Ampco A8 bronze alloy...

Any info is appreciated

Mark

Stainless will look like platinum.
I don't like Ampco nipples,they were/are too soft and the threads "pull" when removed and reinstalled.
If you make your own from stainless 303-304 is the best bet but they need to have a fairly thick wall. 303-304 will workharden if too thin and may crack. BTDT with a top of the line store bought in a 16 bore English style rifle. Just made one with thicker walls in the internal recess. Have not proved and shot it yet.
This rifle has a Nock Patent breech with a Manton recessed breech lock and has proven very reliable with Swiss BP.
I have found the Nock breech cleans very well if Swiss is used and it is flushed well with the breech in a container of soapy water and seldom remove the cleanout. However. I shot some Schuetzen powder and it fouled pretty bad so i pulled the screw and found the internal crack in the liner.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/DPhariss/ML%20Guns/Crackedliner.jpg
You can see the crack and that the liner is burnt black on the inside around the vent which was about .060" diameter.
Frankly its a PITA. Now I wonder if 303-304 is safe for this use???
Might have to get some beryllium copper and see about making a liner out of this. Its not my first choice either. I will be checking the liner more often.
Dan