This may seem like a really stupid question, but I really need to know.
Does the recoil throw off your shot? I know if you anticipate the recoil and compensate before taking the shot, it will throw it off, but if you take a shot without moving at all, does the shock and movement of the recoil throw your bullet off or is the bullet already far down range?

Some recoil does happen as the bullet moves...equal and opposite reactions and all that newtonian stuff...but a good bit of it happens as the bullet and expanding gas exits (which is why brakes work...they redirect that gas). Heavy bullets have a higher percentage of recoil being generated by the bullet than light bullets (which is why a 2000 foot pounds of energy generated by a 500gr. bullet recoils a lot more than 2000 foot pounds generated by a 100gr. bullet).

SO...the rifle moves before the bullet exits...the barrel vibrates like a tuning fork (actually, it ssems to vibrate in a kind of oval)...the recoil starts to compress your shoulder...then the bullet exits and you get the rest of the recoil AFTER it can do the bullet no accuracy harm.


Follow though...that what we try to do for that length of time between the brain's signal for trigger pull and bullet exit. Vary the side pressure (which you should have NONE of anyway), grip on the stock, or shoulder presue and the bullet goes wide, mostly from the recoil that happens before the bullet ever gets to the barrel crown.

Can you buy an aftermarket brake or does it have to come factory on a gun?

A lot of barrel whip and gun movement happens before the bullet leaves the barrel. Three examples. Shoot a rifle off the bags then try shooting it from prone with a tight sling. I can almost guarantee it will shot low. Find a picture of a revolver and draw one line across the sights and another parallel to the barrel. The lines will diverge downrange. I've owned a 1911 for 40 years and a lot of people have shot it. I've got long skinny hands and don't use a tight grip. A couple of really big gents, linebacker size with huge hands, just couldn't get on paper with it, 2 feet low at 20 yards.

The trick, as usual, is a consistent hold.

Bye
Jack

I've owned a 1911 for 40 years and a lot of people have shot it. I've got long skinny hands and don't use a tight grip. A couple of really big gents, linebacker size with huge hands, just couldn't get on paper with it, 2 feet low at 20 yards.

It's ofter more apparent with a harder kicker, .44 Mag and up, but most rifles are far more consistant from shooter to shooter. But the difference in bullet weight, which affects recoil, is a function of recoil and time in the barrel. In many rifles heavy bullets will impact higher than light bullets, especially the heavier recoiling rifles.

There are many aftermarket rifle barrel brakes - do a Google search and you'll come up with a bunch. Also, www.brownells.com (http://www.brownells.com), www.midwayusa.com (http://www.midwayusa.com) with have some.

Anticipation of the recoil can throw the point of impact off.
On the serious side I have seen with most of my guns that heaver bullets have a higher point of impact than a lighter bullet using the same sight settings regardless of caliber.

Can you buy an aftermarket brake or does it have to come factory on a gun?

You can get some factory rifles with brakes installed or you can have an aftermarket brake installed by a gunsmith. Another option is Magna-porting where edm technology is used to cut the brake slots right in your barrel. This can be done to pistols, revolvers and rifles and shotguns by the Magna Port Company.

Different types of brakes do different levels of recoil reduction. Magna-port will make as much as a 25 percent reduction, but does not effect the looks of the rifle. Brakes such as the Vais can do up to 60 percent reduction, but are something fastened to the end of your existing barrel. Brakes may increase the noise of the rifle some to a bunch.

If you do a search on muzzle brakes you will find lots of info here.

I hate muzzle brakes because they hurt my ears. A good synthetic stock with a good pad does it for me. If the rifle is tight, the only ‘off shooting’ will be from jerking the trigger, if you fear the recoil. Practice with a small big game rifle. I manage to fool my mind pretty good on doing this.

This picture by Depperman from the book: “Shooters Choice” fascinates me. I would have bet against the magazine remaining on the block as the bullet left the muzzle. The way we handle recoil in the lever action rifles with the large amount of drop at the heal has a great deal to do with the accuracy of these rifles.
I would like to know how this rifle was held.

You have to think of it on a different level, really, every thing (even a solid steel barrel) is technically in motion at all times. Recoil is the transfer of energy, and the bullet sliding down the barrel expands the barrel (albeit in um) and as ribbonstone pointed out, it wobbles the barrel in an oval shape. For the most part, its so small that the vast majority of factory rifles will shoot sub MOA when you take the shooter out of the equation.

all i know is,, for me recoil causes the occasional flyer ..of that im sure..
its hard get it right every time.

For myself it is muzzle blast from another shooter right before trigger pull, not so much recoil, that will throw my shots off.

Leonidas:<o></o>
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Re: “Does the recoil throw off your shot?”<o></o>
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I’m not sure exactly what you meant in your question, so I want to answer it in a couple of different ways:<o></o>
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<o></o>The first answer is that, anticipation of painful recoil can make you flinch before the bullet leaves the firearm, which can ruin accuracy.<o></o>
For the second answer, I am reading your question as, “Does the existence of recoil throw off your shot”, as if the elimination of recoil would solve all accuracy problems. I would answer NO to that. Every gun recoils- even 22 rimfires. Certainly, if we could mount our guns in a 1,000 pound vice, for every shot, we would expect better accuracy, but that is impractical, and no fun. Again, ruling out guns that you expect to hurt you, recoil is just as much a part of the equation as is caliber, gun weight, bullet weight and speed, barrel vibration, etc. As long as the shooter holds the gun in the same way, in the same place, with the same grip pressure, etc, he will get good accuracy, even with moderate recoil. Consider the following: a handgun is so short, and the center of the grip is relatively much lower than the center of a rifle butt, that a handgun’s sights are regulated to point the barrel well below the target. When a handgun is fired, it pivots considerably in the hand, so that by the time the bullet exits the barrel, the barrel is pointed more toward the target. In a rifle or a handgun, recoil lets us hit the target. If we held the gun in a vice, all shots would go to the same place, but it would be no where near where the sights are looking. <o></o>
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I hope I didn’t make it too confusing.<o></o>
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Darrel<o></o>
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Find a picture of a revolver and draw one line across the sights and another parallel to the barrel. The lines will diverge downrange.

Bye
Jack
That's a normal part of the parabolic trajectory - that doesn't really have anything to do with recoil affecting accuracy.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/a/a8/TargetShooting3.gif

I read somewhere once that in light of the near endless other variables that can affect accuracy, that recoil is not really the one to worry about, but I can't really remember where I read that.

Check out a revolver. The front sight is higher than the rear sight. The line of sight and the extended bore axis do not cross and diverge down range.

Bye
Jack

Check out a revolver. The front sight is higher than the rear sight. The line of sight and the extended bore axis do not cross and diverge down range.

Bye
Jack
So are you saying that revolvers are designed with recoil in mind as a means to pull the bullet up into the line of sight? Are you saying that the laws of physics in regard to trajectories don't apply to revolvers? It sticks in my mind that the old SAA Colts were designed with the idea that you either had to compensate for the front sight being as tall as it was or you were supposed to file it down until you were hitting where you wanted to hit.

That said, any time I have ever fired a revolver at distance, I always had to compensate by holding high on the front sight so it seems to me that the same trajectory rules would apply.

Something else to keep in mind when looking at a trajectory diagram, the angles are WAY exagerated to illustrate the idea of a parabolic trajectory - the actual distance is at times pretty small - like only an MOA per 100 yards. Bringing that back to practical handgun ranges, it seems that the actual trajectory arc would be virtually negligable - you would want it to hit right on the line of sight.

The revolver sights are designed with recoil factored in as the revolver begins recoiling before the bullet leaves the barrel. So the line of sight when the trigger is pulled isn't the line of sight at bullet exit, as the barrel tilts in recoil. The trajectory down range is what you expect as gravity takes over. While the angles are exaggerated in most illustrations, the difference in drop of the .45 ACP between 25 and 50 yards takes you from the center to the edge of the 10 ring.

Bye
Jack

Ok - but what about a revolver such as the S&W Model 18 - the .22 version clone of the Model 15 Combat Masterpiece? Is recoil still factored when there is so little of it?

Probably. Try measuring the difference in height above the bore of the front and rear sights. It's about 1/8" on my .357 S&W.

Bye
Jack

Jack, while in a critical, technical sense you may have a point, isn't it like picking gnat turds out of pepper? The way I see it, it's just not worth worrying about. Getting back to the main subject of the thread of whether or not recoil affects accuracy, possibly, but again, with so many other things to think about and so many other variables, recoil is probably the least of a shooter's concerns where accuracy is involved. A good marksman can shoot sub MOA groups at 100 yards with a Win. 300 magnum, and that definitely has some recoil. So is it the recoill that is creating the minor variances in accuracy in that situation, or is it likely some other variable?