I'm trying to make sense out of all the powders out there. How can you tell one powder from another? Is there any ryhme or reason about how a powder is named? Is there a way you can tell the characteristics of one powder with another? Are there different categories of powders? Does the name of the powder tell you how fast or slow, cool or hot it is? just trying to figure out if you can look at a powders name, maker or other and tell what you are getting. :confused:

Most reloading manuals will have a listing of current powders (called a burn rate chart), starting with the fastest and finishing with the slowest. Careful reading of the reloading procedures contained in these manuals will show they will recommend the fastest powders for handguns and shotguns, with rifles using the slowest.

In the reloading recommendations listed for individual cartridges will be a variety of powders that work the best for that cartridge and bullet type/weight.

As for how powders are named, that is the prerogative of the powder manufacturer. There is NO standard requiring the powders be named in any certain order or category. Pay attention to the burn rate charts, the manual recommendations and be wary of ANY load listed by individuals on the internet.

No way. Most powder names make as much sense as General Motors naming one car after an African antelope and another after a Nova Scotian of French descent. Alliant comes close with their Reloder line, 7-10X-15-17-19-22-25 from fast to slow. DuPont-IMR numbers are based on the original lot that met the specification of that powder, IIRC, so they may be in chronological order, excepting the latest 4007.

A burn rate chart gives you a general idea of where a powder fits into the order, but don't try substituting the next powder in the chart without checking a reloading manual and preferably more than one. Sometimes the difference is significant. Some powders have their peculiarities that make them unsuitable for a particular load. For example, the H110/W296 twins are all or nothing powders, as they don't behave at less than max loads. Shotgun loading is another case where a powder that should work won't. You have to fill the shell with powder, wad and shot to the point where you can make a good crimp. Shotgun powder vary in bulk quite a bit, so picking the right one is necessary, even when the burn rate is identical.

Powders come in flakes, balls and tubes. Generally the flake powders are fast, the ball powders cover the whole range and tube powders are slow to very slow, like the thumb sized battleship powder grains.

Hodgdon's burn rate chart is the most recent, and will give you a general idea of the burning rate order. Don't use it to out guess a reloading manual.

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/general/burnratechart.php

Bye
Jack

Cali, I suggest you only use loads listed in a reloading manual. These loads are proven safe, and it is even worthwhile to cross-check these loads between manuals, if you have more than one (a good idea). Consider these manuals your "reloading lifeline". Don't use load data you get off the internet, or from a Buddy in casual conversation, without seeing if the load is safe in a manual first. Good luck.

I like the Lee manual, it lists the powders by highest to lowest velocities for each load. Several manuals are handy to have so you can cross check loads.

Powder names are like medicine names: it has nothing to do with what it's used for.

One might write a lengthy article about the idiosyncrasies of powder names (and I just might!). Just as two tiny examples, way back when, the Hercules company named a new powder 2400 because that's the velocity it produced in a then-new wildcat round, the .22 Hornet. Decades later, Bruce Hodgdon found that 38.0 grains of a certain military surplus powder was very accurate in his 22-250 rifle - and so he named it H380. See? Hardly any rhyme or reason, and absolutely no pattern.

Powder companies generally put out lists of their powders, with a short description of what that powder is best suited for. Just read them and apply the lesson. The safest thing is to never assume two powders are identical, even if they both have the same name/number. Some may be nearly the same, but it's risky to assume so.

I would n't concern yourself too much with how and why they have particular names. Your first concern is which one, in which application....safely.

Is there any ryhme or reason about how a powder is named? :confused:

This one made me smile.

Not that I could ever see. And certainly there's NOOOO correlation across manufacturers, worse, even the ones with the same numbers are not cross compatable except buy some stroke of luck.

But powders are basically slow, medium, or fast and that is relative to where it's used. A very slow pistol powder, becomes very fast powder in a rifle case :confused:.

I have loading manuals over many years of publication. The best ones are a guide, not a law. The reason every one published in the last 20 years has continuous references to starting loads, and maximum loads. The best example that comes to mind is my Lyman Manual #47 that lists 61gr of R12 as a load for a 225gr Nosler Partition in a .35 Whelen :eek:, I ran out of nerve at 59gr, and to say that was hot would be a major exaggeration, Nosler listed about 52gr.

But powder numbers don't make a heck of a lot of "sense" per se.

Let me know if I am assuming something here...

And if you are not REALLY confused by now, just go to the range and visit with the benchrest shooters, then the pistol shooters, then the trap shooters, they will give you even more to think about.

If you are fortunate enough to have a friend or several friends that reload, ask them to show you the process and even let you shoot some loads of varying ballistics.

Sometimes we forget that there are new folks out there and give a sentence that really has a paragraph that us old guys see. We like to think like reloaders and tend to speak reloaderese.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, get a manual and stick to it. Reload 20 or so loads that are on the low side of maximum and see what you think of them at the range. If you need to tweek the load, do everything the same except the powder charge. On the next visit to the range you have just made the first step toward know reloaderese.

Good luck and ask these guys lots of questions. Some great stuff on this forum.

WOW...No, really... I mean... WOW!!:eek:
Yes, definitely there can be a hobby to this. Not to mention a lifetime of learning possiblies! ;)


So it actually sounds like you go for accuracy more then power. Making a custom, accurate load for your gun seems more like what a lot of people try to achieve.
As far as the powders go, you have to see which ones work well out of your rifle (or handgun). And match the powder to the cartridge.
Well maybe I should ask this... What powders would be good for .30-30 or .30-06? Using a 170 gr and 180gr bullet (respectively)? Varget, H3031 has been tossed around. Any others?

IMR 4350 is the powder to start with for 180 grain bullets in the .30-06, if you're shooting anything but an autoloader. They need faster powders to reduce gas port pressure. It's been that way since 4350 was intorduced in 1940.

Bye
Jack

Let's see if I understand this...just looked at Hodgen's burn rate chart. So if Unique is ranked as 21 and Varget is ranked as 74. Then that would mean that Unique is more of a pistol powder and Varget is used more for rifles?. And looking at the useage page on the website, H4831 might be a good powder for a 30-06 because .30-06 is more at the end of the the bigger calibers/cartridges. And H4831 is more at the end for medium cartridges. Is this a ball park figure?

thanks Jack for the link

You got it. Varget is better for medium sized rifle cartridges than 4350 or H4831. It's at the fast end for a 180 grain bullet in a .30-06 and is better suited for 150 grain and lighter bullets. Unique is a very flexible pistol powder as it's good for stiff loads in non magnum pistol cartridges like the .38 Special and .45 ACP, and it's good for light loads in the .357 and .44 Magnums. Unique is also good for medium level 12 gauge loads and light 20 gauge loads.

Bye
Jack

Yea, H4831/IMR 4831 are good for the .30-06, they aren't exactly the same, they are very close, but not interchangeable.

Unique is probably the most used pistol powder, its great in all autoloading calibers, and in light .38 and .44 Special loads. The neat trick is that it even has use in some rifle cases as well, for lead bullets, light charges, and fireforming cases to a custom chamber. You just scratched the surface...

So basically, fast burning powders are used in pistols because they have a tendency to have shorter barrels and you need a powder that will get the bullet up to speed quicker. While rifles and shotguns can use slower burning powder because they have longer barrels?

Or is this is a physics formula where a larger bullet needs a slower, more gradual climb in force to get it up to speed where it is the most accurate.

Wait!! maybe that's it!! there is a "terminal" velocity at which a bullet is most accurate. if a bullet is pushed to hard and to fast. It can "wobble" and lose accuracy. On the flip side, if the bullet is not pushed hard enough then it again can start 'wobbling" and lose accuracy. it sounds then like this is a quest for accuracy. It's a test to find the right load of powder and bullet weight that will create the right force and speed to allow a bullet to be the most accurate out of my gun (each gun can be different). I'm I on the right track?:confused:

P.S. Do i seriously have to much time on my hands to be thinking this much?:rolleyes:

Pistol cartridges need faster powders because the case doesn't hold as much powder. Rifles need slower powders because fast powders don't give much velocity. Notice how most pistol cartridges are in the 700-1300 FPS range, and rifle cartiridges are up to around 4000 FPS. Some pistol powders are good in large capacity straightwall rifle cases too.

The speed of a powder relates to how much push it can give. Slower powders give a longer more even push, fast powders give a short hard push.

There's a number of factors involved with powder burning rate. Case capacity to bore diameter is one. Take a short fat straight case like the .45 ACP. You move the bullet down the barrel an inch and you've got a lot more volume compared to the case capacity. So you need a fast burning powder that gets the bullet up to speed in a short distance. Compare that to your .30-06 or one on the magnums where moving the bullet an inch doesn't change the ratio as much. But you're burning much more powder, and the rifle will blow up if all that powder burns too fast. Next, the .30-06 operates at much higher pressure, and the burning speed is proportional to pressure, so we have another reason for picking a slow burning powder.

Accuracy is more dependant on somewhat mysterious barrel vibrations. You can get good accuracy over a very wide range of velocities, but there will be sweet spots. Some of the benchresters load to pressures that are more than a bit warm.:eek::eek:

Bye
Jack

It is a balance between attaining the most velocity with accuracy.

As you will note reviewing all the many comments on the board, each member has a pet powder and loading for certain types of bullets and bullet weights. What that generally means is that their particular firearms responds best with that unique balance of powder type, weight, bullet type and weight. Every firearm is a law unto itself as to the best balance.

There exists a GENERAL rule of thumb, which is what the loading manuals exhibit. You will note the variance between manuals for the same powder charge and bullet weight. What you have to take into consideration is the different types of devices used to obtain these figures. Some use universal receivers and test barrels of certain lengths, while others use commercially available firearms. They also use different brands of bullets. The testing climates also vary. Different pressure testing devices are utilized. All this leads to discrepancies in the reporting data, but usually not enough to worry greatly, unless trying to load at the very maximum of each listing.

Most of us reloaders will have more faith in one particular manual and tend to use the others as backup. The choice is yours, but my main go-to is the Lyman 48th edition. Have been using the Lyman book recommendations for years and have never had a problem. Plus, they are loaded with reloading information for the beginner.

If you stick with the manual's recommendations and get comfortable with your loading procedures, you can begin to adjust the loads to work best in the individual firearm. Don't try to wing it right out of the gate - surprises will follow! :p

powder burn rate = pressure rate
your gun / case will only take so much peak pressure
to obtain velocity you need to lower your peak pressure but push the bullet longer

simple answer

"...fast burning powders are used in pistols because they have a tendency to have shorter barrels..."

Sorta. An even bigger factor is that the pistol cases are smaller than rifle cases (usually) and the "expansion ratio" (a factor that includes the bore diameter vs. case capacity) is smaller so faster powders are required for reasonable performance.