im looking to get a stevens 200 as a beater rifle to back up my regular deer rifle because our rifle season in PA has been so rainy i dont like to drag out my favorite walnut blued 308. what im thinking is should i get 308 7mm08 or 243. i have a daughter who is only 2 but soon she may want to hunt and im wondering if i cant kill 2 birds with 1 stone and get something with light enuff recoil that she can use. ive never shot a 243 or 7mm08 and was wonndering the recoil would be lite enuff for a first timmer. ive seen the managed recoil fusion in 308 but have not had a chance to shot them yet that might be one way to go. thanks for any ideas.

I've got two grand daughters 13 and 14 and one likes my 243 and the other shoots a 308. Get them shooting a 22 early and then into a 243. The 7mm-08 has just a little more recoil than the 243 and a little less than the 308. Don't get here a super light gun, one in the 7 1/2 pound range will give much less recoil than a 6 pound gun. A past strap on recoil pad and a good limbsaver on a rifle that fits will also really help.

My family all uses 243 for deer in PA, they are very versatile (i.e. groundhogs in summer, Deer in the winter) and they are easy to shoot with low recoil. Where in PA are you from?

Featherweight rifles in 7mm-08, or .308 can be pretty snappy, and if you calculate recoil in ft/lbs, and make a comparison to shooter weight, a small person is gonna think it's a lot. Both can be loaded down with .30-30, or 7-30 bullets. The 130gr Speer FP is actually quite a good deer bullet, and works fine at 2200-2300fps.

I own, and use .243's, and have taken deer and antelope with them on and off for the last 40years or so. If you chose your shots, and use the right bullets, it's an effective load. But I'm not sold on it as a beginners deer rifle.

I've often wondered why you never see a Marlin 94 in .44mag recommended. With a recoil pad, and shooting 240gr bullets, it's both accurate and effective out to 100yds, and recoil is actually quite mild.

But the Stevens 200 as a rain gun is a really good choice. Most of them shoot pretty good too.

My vote would go to the .243 Win if you add a young person into the equation.

All use the 308 case with the same capacity. The difference is in the bullet weight which factors in the recoil concern - the heavier the bullet the more felt recoil.

I've used the .243 for both deer and antelope. The deer (both whitetail and mule deer) were shot from ranges of 75 yds in moderate wood brush to 300 yds in open country. All went down with one-shot kills using the Nosler Partition bullets.

You can download all these cartridges to ease the felt recoil for the youngster and for target practice.

or.....

get a 308 and load it with lighter bullets. The 243's 100 grainer could be also loaded as a 308 with a 100 grain, or 110. As you progress, you could then do to the 125grain, then the 150, and so on.

I started my daughter at 10 on my 308 with 110 plinkers. At 13 now, she can shoot 125's all day, and easily do a box of 150's.

good luck with your choices.

i was wondering how do you calculate felt recoil is there a formula. also i dont reload yet but this could be a good excuse to start. if i reload a 30/30 bullet it would work in a 308 case, that would probaly be my best bet then i could reload my own 308 as hot as i wanted. if i do decide to start reloading wheres a good place to start. Thanks for all the good ideas.

i was wondering how do you calculate felt recoil .

Take a look at: http://www.huntamerica.com/recoil_calculator/

.30-30 bullets work fine in a .308 at reduced velocities as they are .308 diameter.

i dont know how the rest of you think it is light. my dads 308 is the hardest for me to shoot. it isnt like all the others. it is a hard fast kick. not a long push like most. it is just squeeze, the CRACK! Into your shoulder. i hate that recoil. and ive shot his 375 h&h, and i sill think it is worse than that. its a lever action 308 though. i dont know what make. might be a winchester. dont remember.

I used a Winchester Featherweight in .308 for the first couple years I hunted. As light as that rifle was I was pretty sore by the time I finished a box of 20. I dropped from 180 gr. to 150 gr. factory ammo. Than did help a little. I would say that the .308 in that rifle felt like the .30-06 that I shoot now.

Look into limbsavers, and other recoil reducing methods. I bought my wife a shoulder pad, and I end up using if I am going to have a long shooting session and I don't want to flinch towards the end. Another help for newer shooters is to make sure they have adequate ear and eye protection. I like to double ear plugs with ear muffs.

Bottom line choose which caliber you would like and work with it to make sure that it is comfortable for your little girl. Good luck.

i dont know how the rest of you think it is light. my dads 308 is the hardest for me to shoot. it isnt like all the others. it is a hard fast kick. not a long push like most. it is just squeeze, the CRACK! Into your shoulder. i hate that recoil. and ive shot his 375 h&h, and i sill think it is worse than that. its a lever action 308 though. i dont know what make. might be a winchester. dont remember.

I have a Savage 99 in .308 (lever action), and with 180 gr factory remington loads, it has a very sharp recoil. Would not be surprised at all if that is the rifle you are speaking of. Three factors I see (in my case): (1) Savage 99 stock design; (2) it's a light rifle; (3) 180 gr is heavy for caliber in the .308 cartridge. Oh, and I was also shooting at the bench ... guess that's four factors :D. Anyways, I've not tried my 99 standing nor with lighter bullets yet. Have other "children" I am paying attention to right now.

I also have a Winchester 88 in .308 and it is much more pleasant to shoot with the same load. Incidentally, the Savage 99 has a recoil pad on it, and the Winchester 88 does not.

I also agree with the 243 recommendation. And yes a Limbsaver recoil pad would be sound extra assurance that a young shooter would not get too whacked from recoil. The 243 is such a versatile round and it excellent for deer, which is, as I understand it---what you are looking for. I own a 700BDL in 243 with a shorter barrel, with a 3-9 leupold. It isn't an ultra light gun which is good actually, but it carries well in the woods. It points well. The bark is not bad, nor its bite. And whatever I point it at it goes down when I pull the trigger. I bought it used (as well as the scope) and I carry it in any weather and in any terrain. It is better than a beater gun but I have less than $600 into it so for some that is beater gun range. If I had only one gun this would be it. That says it all. (Thankfully, I don't have only one gun nor do I ever hope to ever have to seriously considier such a fate, hahaha)

i think she will be alright as i shot a .30-06 @ 11 years old (i was about 5'3 and maybe 115 soaking wet). i also hunted with a .30-30 (about the same size at 12). the .308 will be more kick but if she is used to shooting it won't be a problem. this is a sufficient caliber for deer in PA as what i used was in MI. this shouldnt be much of a change from PA. there is no need for a novice shooter (as i take it from ur post) to use a caliber that i believe is less than sufficient for whitetails.

As I have stated my family has used 243's for PA whitetails for years and we have never had a problem. A 243 will work just fine if that's what you decide to use.

Stock shape has a lot to do with felt recoil. I also had a Savage 99 in .308. Kicked like a freakin mule!!!

Both my kids (daughter's 14, boy's 10) shoot 6 1/2 lb. Vanguard Compact .308's. They are scary accurate rifles!!! Their recoil is the most pleasant I've seen from any .308. I'm loading them 150 gr, Winchester Power Points a couple grains of 3031 under max. They are a deer hammer.

idk, i started out with a .22-250 and then .257 and my lifer is .270, but i know the .243 is a very light kicking gun, but the .257 roberts is a low-recoil, deer killing machine, if u can find a gun that still chambers it, never shot a 7mm-08

If you want to use a .308, try lighter bullets. The 110 grain may be a bit fragile, but the 130 grain are useable. If you load them to around 2500-2600 fps you will have a noticeable reduction in recoil with the .308.
I am not discounting the .243, as my limited experience with a 100 grain .257 Roberts showed me that the bullets will go right through a big whitetail or mule deer, and drop them in their tracks. The .243 100 grain should do the same, and I have a "new to me" .243 in Remington 700 to work with.
But, I load a lot of 110 and 130 grain bullets in my .308, and they definitely recoil a lot less than full power 150 grain loads.

al_sway,

are you running the Hornady 130g SPs?
tried them on deer?

I hunt with a 308 and have been loading 165g Gameking BTSPs a 1/2 grain under max because they are so accurate, recoil is a bit on the snappy side but they sure do kill fast...

been toying with loading up some of the 130s
I shot 243s and 25-06s and know a 100g in either is a whitetail slayer..

Yes, I am loading the Hornady 130 grain SP. I haven't had a chance to try them on deer, as my job has been keeping me from getting out this past season. I have a bunch loaded up, and with their demonstrated accuracy, I feel quite confident about using them. I will let you know how they perform.

I've always been intrigued by the .257 roberts, and would love to find one someday, but finding it in a lefty....yea, sure...:rolleyes:

A well stocked but light weight bolt rifle in .243 is the ideal rig for new/young shooters, IMHO. It's accurate enough for varmits, plenty powerful enough for whitetail and the felt recoil is not intimadating. Something like a Ruger Ultralight, a Rem Md. 7 or 700 Mtn Rifle would do nicely.

When my son came home for a visit from the Peace Corp he shot my 243 with 100 grainers. He thought it kicked harder than he liked. By comparison the same rifle (Rem 700 BDL) in 223 with 55 grainers was "sweet". Now, he hasn't shot much in a few years but the 243 loaded up with 100 grainers can kick pretty good for a "new shooter/someone who hasn't shot in a long time". Yet I think after a few practice days he would be okay with the 243. Yet, with that said, I think a 243 with an "80 grainer or lighter bullet" is more "ideal" for new shooters.

I think the 308 in factory loads is too severe for most new shooters (although we all know stock design and recoil pad are big factors). I think a mentor needs to handload 308 using lower powders and using ligher bullets to come in at about sonic or just under for a 308 to be a manageable gun for a new or inexperienced shooter. If you give a new shooter "too much gun" you risk losing them; they will develop a distaste for shooting...

when I started getting my son ready for deer hunting I chatted with my dad, the worst thing to do for a young shooter is to give them too much gun and they develop a flinch that's hard to overcome

I got a NEF superlight 223 and he killed his first doe at about 75 yards, perfect shot with 64g softpoints.
but it had more recoil than my 243 since it was so light (NEF)
this past year I cut the stock down on my 59 sako (cringe, but I have a new stock for it should the need arise) and put the pachmeyr back on it with a little bit of refitting

he killed 2 deer this year, one at 145 yards :) he's 10

I don't feel much difference between my hot 165s and factory 150s in my 308

I may try to load up some 130s just to see, mainly for a flatter trajectory

I went shooting my Sako yesterday and my handloads hit about 1.5" higher at 100 yards than Federal match 168s, both grouping about a 1/2"

I have a Savage 99 in .308 (lever action), and with 180 gr factory remington loads, it has a very sharp recoil. Would not be surprised at all if that is the rifle you are speaking of. Three factors I see (in my case): (1) Savage 99 stock design; (2) it's a light rifle; (3) 180 gr is heavy for caliber in the .308 cartridge. Oh, and I was also shooting at the bench ... guess that's four factors :D. Anyways, I've not tried my 99 standing nor with lighter bullets yet. Have other "children" I am paying attention to right now.

I also have a Winchester 88 in .308 and it is much more pleasant to shoot with the same load. Incidentally, the Savage 99 has a recoil pad on it, and the Winchester 88 does not.
no,its definitly not a savage. this gun is about 60 years old at least, has a huge action and stalk. it was one of my dads first guns. it is worth a ton too. i really dont know why it kicks so much, its a really heavy gun.

Stock fit, stock fit, stock fit.

no,its definitly not a savage. this gun is about 60 years old at least, has a huge action and stalk. it was one of my dads first guns. it is worth a ton too. i really dont know why it kicks so much, its a really heavy gun.

Hmm, I'm trying to think what other lever actions were ever chambered for the .308 ... Winchester 88, Browning Lever Rifle, Sako Finnwolf ... but none of them really have a huge action. Could you be talking about the Winchester 1895 made famous by Teddy Roosevelt? Don't know if it was ever chambered for the .308 ... thought it was only chambered for 405 WCF and the .30-06 ... old geezers of the board need to help me out here :p .

+1 to what kdub said ... stock fit.

And to keep with the original thread here. 243 is the most practical suggestion, but a funner suggestion is a 2nd to the .257 Roberts with mild recoil and cool factor.

Stock fit, stock fit, stock fit.

Yes,
and just as important, is how the stock fits.:D

Hey guys thanks for all the good ideas. Im leaning toward a youth 243 that i can use on bad weather days and would be OK for my daughter when she is old enough. This kinda brings up one more question. How much difference is there in a 243 win and 257 roberts. Ive looked at the ballistics and on paper they dont seem that different but i hear alot of people say that the 257 is a low recoil deer sayer.

Not sure about PA, but here in Tennessee we rarely have shots over 100 yards because of all the ridges and heavy undergrowth. The 30-30 is an incredibly good deer rifle here, and is an old standby. The Marlin 94's in that caliber are reasonably priced as well, and not heavy kickers. I do not think you will be disappointed with one, and I don't think that anyone can disagree with the fact that it'll knock a deer in the dirt.

If you don't reload, several manufacturers offer reduced recoil factory loads in .308. They are reduced velocity downloaded 150's or 170's or 125's.

has anyone tried the reduced recoil factory loads. I havent but id like to try them in 3006 or 308 that might be just what im lookin for.

The 257 is fairly similar to the 243, it will handle slightly heavier bullets, but 257's are harder to find, especially in new rifles and ammo for the 243 is more plentiful.

243 is a great, I mean great whitetail round
I have shot a bunch of them fro 50-350 yards, every single one has been a one shot kill
hit in the neck, they drop in the scope, hit in the heart they may run 50 yards (same as with any other caliber)
it's a very accurate cartridge
you don't need premium ammo, 80-100g softpoints of whatever brand your rifle shoots well do whatever you need..

Federal Powerpoints, both 80 and 100g work well and are cheap
Rem Corelockts 100g, same thing
if you feel the need to step up a tad in velocity the Hornady light mag 100g is wicked, it isn't far behind a 25-06

ccoker when you aim at the neck what part are you shooting for upper middle lower i guess is what im asking. Ive always been a heart lung shooter and could never figure out why my deer always ran after being hit even with a 300 win mag. Id like to start shooting for the neck so they drop like they do on TV. Any suggestions? Thanks ccoker

nothing magical, just dead center...
I only take neck shots if I am in a stand and have a good steady rest and the deer are cooperating by being still.. basically, I only take it if I have have the perfect shot
while me and the gun are perfectly capable of nailing the shot out past 200 I usually limit to 150 and under
a hundred yard shot with a deer that's still and with a good rest is butter..
no tracking, no meat loss, nice and easy to clean
I was taught by my dad growing up to keep eyes open, watch them drop in the scope
I shot 2 deer this year, both about 130 yards with neck shots, both shots I watched them drop, never even a wiggle, instant lights out, .30 cal entrance wound, 1.5" exit

shot one just minutes before 30 minute after sunset legal limit on a walking buck at about 150, while standing and using a tree as a front rest, barely could see the crosshairs, going for a heart/lung shot but got the back of the shoulder, deer ran about 50 yards and piled up, bullet exited far shoulder, about 1.5"

shot another the same weekend at about 200 yards, again, right at the last possible time, from a stand, perfect broadside shot, exited far side, deer hopped over a fence (on same property) and made it like 20 yards

my take is when they are closer they are running more from the sound
my son hit a doe at about 40 yards with a 243, perfect heart shot, deer took off about 50 yards, stopped and dropped...

I shot a nice buck a few years with the same shot at about 300 yards and he dropped

FWIW, I run 165g Sierra BTSPs with 45.5g of Varget, probably around 2700 in my 308

my dad neck shot a ton of deer with a 22-250 running hot with 55-63g pills in South Texas