I have a few questions about the Winchester pre 64 model 70 Westerner .264 mag standard grade not the featherweight. I have seen two different variations of this gun. I have done much research and seem to get conflicting reports. My questions are these:
Were these guns made with stainless steel barrels or chrome moly or both? If stainless steel why are the barrels marked "Winchester proof steel"? It is my understanding that stainless steel will not attract a magnet however these barrels do. I have seen two different finishes on the barrels. One is a bright shinney bluing and the other is a sort or matt black "Japaned" finish. Why the different finishes? All barrels are 26 inches long. Did this gun come with a recoil pad or black plastic butt plate or both? I hope someone can give me some difinitive answers about this particular gun. Thanks in advance.

It's been a long time since my metalurgy classes, and maybe I slept thru too many of them, but as I recall the "magnet" test is not always a reliable indicator with so many different alloys of steel and stainless steel now being produced.

I have several pre-64 model 70's, some with stainless steel barrels. My impression is that the earlier stainless that they used required the barrel to be "plated" with sintered iron, which could then be blued. This gives a dull mate finish. I have a couple of rifles like this.

Another model 70 in my collection, produced slightly later, has a stainless barrel with the standard blued appearance. It would fool you into thinking that it was their standard barrel steel, although I suspect that any attempts to "touch up" any areas with cold blue would be unsuccessful.

Regretfully, my collection is in storage so I can't pick up a rifle in order to refresh my memory and look to see how the barrels are marked. Perhaps other model 70 collectors can shed more light on your question.

First off heavyshot, welcome to the forum!

8iowa is right in that there are magnetic and non-magnetic (austenitic I believe) stainless steels. So, the magnet test is not a good one to always use.

Below are a few tidbits that I can add, some of which come from what I recall reading in Roger Rule's Model 70 book, so the specifics may be a bit off, but should be close.

I have two pre-64s with 26" stainless barrels--an early 1950s 220 Swift, and a circa 1960 264 Win Magnum Westerner. The 220 Swift has the earlier (from back in the Model 54 era, if I recall) "plating" process where the barrel was sand-blasted and plated with iron, which then took the "rust blue". The blasting required the muzzle and chambers to be plugged to protect the bore, and thus the muzzle of my Swift is "in the white" stainless. The rest of the finish has sort of a matte look since the sand blasting roughened up the surface.

In the mid-late 50s Winchester switched to the Du-Lite blue process for the stainless which didn't use the blasting/plating. My Westerner barrel is done this way. The muzzle is blued, and the overall color is almost greenish under certain light.

So, I believe 8iowa hit things pretty correctly on this issue as well. I just wanted to add my own 2 cents to everything.

My standard Model 70s from this era have the dark black look of the regular steel bluing.

All of these are stamped with the Winchester Proof Steel, regardless.

I think I recall Rule saying that near the end of the pre-64 era, the stainless barrels were dropped, so some of the later Westerners may not have the stainless barrels. As far as the recoil pads, I think his book implied that the standard 264s did not have them (mine actually has the older inlet steel buttplate), but since you could custom-order, I don't know why one couldn't order a recoil pad equipped one from the factory.

Dan

Welcome to the forum heavyshot. Rules are simple, be nice and join in.

Looks like you got some good info. Hope you stay and enjoy our group of gun nuts here.

Thanks. Good to be here. All good information indeed. Thank you BTO and 8iowa. So it appears that both finishes are factory original. I was concerned about it because I did not want to buy a gun that has been reblued. I would also be leary of buying one with a recoil pad. If it was special ordered with one from the factory I would insist on a factory letter stating that. So that brings up another question. Is one finish more desirable to the collector than the other? Would the values be the same? Thanks again. And buy the way BTO does rock! (so does AC/DC for that matter).

While I am not spending every awake moment of the day looking for pre-64 model 70's, none-the-less, whenever I see one in all original condition, even if the stock has been refinished, I don't hesitate if the price is reasonable. Unfortunately, so many guys had cut the stock and put on recoil pads. I've even seen it on 243's. This is a real deal killer for me, unless it is a rare rifle.

Two years ago, I was in Chuck's Gun Shop in Atlanta and a customer was handling a standard model 70, early 50's, an all original 270 with a hang tag that said $800. I politely told the gentleman that if he put the rifle down, I would pick it up. He put it down and thats all she wrote!