You guys know how much I like reduced loads. I have been talking with the guys on the Beartooth Bullets web site and came up with this combo. I had to use the M-die to get a little flair in the neck so the bullets would seat. As you can see, I crushed one. My RCBS seating die was marking the bullets so I had to take it apart and I did clean it. For some reason that stopped the marking. The round should be less than 2000 fps and I hope has good accuracy at 100 yds.

It should be an ultimate 'Cat Sneeze' out of the Tikka 3 Lite. A quiet vermin killer.

I have not given up on Marshall's roundball load. It was much lower velocity and the round ball did not give great accuracy but talk about a cheap way to do some 30.06 shooting. I may have to go there again soon. If you are interested in that one you can check the articles on this web site.

Thanks to all that helped when we highjacked another thread, kinda. I will report here when I get some data.

Looks good. At those low pressures, you can even use standard pistol primers just fine.

I'm out in the shop today casting up some 175 grain lead bullets for my 8mm mag to do exactly the same. Got the new Lee manual and have been reading the new chapter 10 on reduced loads. He's talking about loading bases on the hardness of the lead and it sure sounds like it works. I've also got Marshall's tech manual and I'm going to go thru that again this evening.

Chief are you gas checking those bullets for that velocity? I haven't bought any 32 caliber gas checks yet, but will order some along with some more liquid alox bullet lube. I'm trying to work out a load with around the same velocity when I get a couple of hundred cast up. Well I just took a good look at your pix and see those are the half jacket bullets. That ought to make a dandy plinking load.

I just can't take the recoil anymore of the big boomers with the blood thinners I'm on for the heart problems. I bruise so easily anymore, but would like to get out put some rounds thru that gun before it becomes a safe queen.

I should trade if off, but I'll keep it just in case my son ever gets back interested in hunting. His counseling is going pretty good right now.

Bob, just remember: 10 to 12 of Unique (or Universal) for very mild, or 13.0 RedDot for slightly more oomph. Standard primers, no fillers, MUCH fun.

Chief, next time you order some bullets from Beartooth get a hundred of the 115 grain plain base bullets to try. They shoot pretty well in my 32-20 and I believe Marshall will size them to suit your .308 bore.

Fro many years used 2.7gr. of Red Dot and a 115gr. cast lead 32-20 (.313") bullet in several .303 Brits. About the noise of a .22Short from a rifle length barrel. Shot well enough for 25yard practice and killed a lot of squirrels. When i was too lazy to cast, would use the commercial .32 HBWC's.

Now we're going below cat sneeze and into mouse phardt loads!

I use 3.5 of Bullseye (or 700X or RedDot, or Nitro 100, or any of several other very fast flake powders - never ball) and those same 110-120 grain cast bullets. In 30 Herrett, 308 or 30-30.

Started using them so long ago that the powder choice then was W473, now LONG discontinued. Never chronoed them that I can discover, but similar loads by magazine writers show about 500-700 fps. Seems about right.

I have wondered if a Magnum primer and a No.4 Buckshot would work in a .243?

Or do you need a couple gr of powder to make it go?

You could probably make that leave the muzzle. Worst case, you stick a ball in the barrel and have to push it out. No big deal, but you do have to check after each shot for awhile.

I don't think I've ever heard of detonation with a flake pistol powder, but there is a Finish site with a picture of a .308 that came apart firing 2.9 grains of N320, a very short cut extruded single-base pistol powder. It seems to me the Finish site mentioned a long history of safe shooting with a larger quantity of N320, but still a pretty tiny load. In any event, it wouldn't be an overcharge situation because you'd have to overcharge about 6 times just to reach standard maximum pressure with the bullet they employed. I don't know if anyone has done any pipsqueak loading with Trail Boss, but its great bulk makes it seem like a natural candidate for such loads with lead bullets?

I am going to raise the barrel to put the powder at the back of the case before firing but I will go ahead and shoot one of these 10 gr. loads to see what velocity I get. If anything seems like it needs tweeking I will sneak up on that 11.3 gr. that UN has calculated.

Will second the idea of using a "fluffy" powder (one that fills a lot of volume for the weight), and when I started using that 2.7gr. load Red Dot was picked becasue of RedDot's low density. Might be tempted to try TrailBoss.

Still use that load, without any filler, for squirrels. Will be pointing up when I use it, so at least the micro charge won't be scattered along the bottom of the case. Would carry a few of those micro loads for deer hunting...when squirrels seem to love to tease you from the tree top above your stand.

Primer alone may or may not sneeze out a ball....will work fine in a .25acp as a cheap plinking load (if anyone has the urge to plink with a .25acp) but it's going to take a little more "umpf" to get the ball reliably out of a rifle barrel.

Reminder....for all of these loads, will use cases previously fired with full charge ammo, and UNSIZED. These load will not expand a sized case to seal the chamber, so you'd end up with a very sooty case/chamber.

Try a primer powered crayon stub Chief. I made a mess out of a mouse with one once that would have made a cat puke. Was a 30-06 too. It's been awhile. I think crayons are still 30 caliber?

Cheezywan

Try a primer powered crayon stub Chief. I made a mess out of a mouse with one once that would have made a cat puke. Was a 30-06 too. It's been awhile. I think crayons are still 30 caliber?

Cheezywan

Okay, now you've done it. My wife thinks I've lost my mind, sitting here reading a gun website with tears rolling down my cheeks, fighting not to fall out of my chair.

Out of curiosity, and assuming you're serious here (seems like it oughta work) how bad does firing a wax slug booger up the rifling?

I might just try this for grins, if my leg isn't being pulled...

It will work.

Use to melt canning wax (parra.) into a thinner layer (thicknes about the same as the length of a .303 Brit's neck), let it cool, and use an empty case as a cookie cutter. Then prime it (need to be un-primed so you don't compress the air in the case, which will make you wax plug ant to pop out). Same basic idea as the old wax bullet loads for handguns.

Never thought of crayones...if they are the right diameter, then could get several wax bullets from one (and my wife teaches Kinder., so can get a pot full of stubs).

Makes sense, thanks.

I used to make paraffin loads using a Magnum primer and a .44SPL case for discouraging stray dogs. That was pretty effective even out of a revolver.

I'm thinking I may spend a while in the loading room playing with this whole idea tomorrow...

hmmm, paper patched wax bullets. what will youse guys think of next?

I don't get it - if you want to shoot 22 level loads, why don't you just drag out the 22?:confused: Seems a lot easier and cheaper!

:rolleyes:

I just want them for a novilty at the next range session with the guys. I would think they would be great for position shooting when you wanted to put a lot of rounds downrange. Cost is a diffinite factor. It is easy on the case and the low powder charge is less expensive. The good accuracy would do a lot to tell wheather your form was correct. All this being done with your big game rifle. That has to help.

How else would you get really friendly with a new rifle except to shoot it? Are many many more chances to shoot a nice quiet rifle than there are a loud full charged one.

You get the same sights, stock, trigger, and feel of your hunting rig. If you aren't prone to flinching, then you'll not need constant recoil-practice. Will mention, that off-hand, these can be harder to shoot well as there is a whole lot of time between trigger break and bullet exit, which can be a very good thing for learning follow though.

For a confimred small game hunter, a flat faced 30cal. 115gr. at 700-800 fps is a lot better small game killer than any .22.

I was fox hunting on a piece of land leased by a duck club once. I had checked in with the rancher owner as always, and spent several hours on his property - perhaps 300 yards from his house. I was carrying my .308 with the 10.0 Unique/Plinker load. I got one fox, two skunks and a crow that landed on the ground.

When I left, the rancher said it was too bad I hadn't gotten anything. He hadn't heard a single shot. I can almost guarantee that if I'd touched off even one full-power 308 load, I'd have been shown the gate, pronto. (Oh, and when I let him shoot a round, he was amazed. Next visit, I dropped off a box of the same load in 30-30. They didn't last him long, and I still keep him supplied with them every time I go there. I'm more than welcome.)

Okay, now you've done it. My wife thinks I've lost my mind, sitting here reading a gun website with tears rolling down my cheeks, fighting not to fall out of my chair.

Out of curiosity, and assuming you're serious here (seems like it oughta work) how bad does firing a wax slug booger up the rifling?

I might just try this for grins, if my leg isn't being pulled...


Nope. Am not pulling your leg. True story. I was at the bench in the basement. Scoped 30-06 in the cleaning cradle. Primed 30-06 cases in the loading block. A red crayon stub lying near (used for marking stuff).
I kept seeing a mouse in the far corner of the basement among some boxes.
It all came together right then and there. About a 15 yard shot. Was way more powerful than needed. It took a lot of paper towels to clean that one up. The red crayon only added to the visual effect.
May have been a lucky shot? The mouse was a big blur in the scope at that range.
I never did experiment with it any further.
The bore did clean easy.

Cheezywan

Wouldn't ya just know it? Eight grandkids and not a crayon in the house. Searched high and low.

Really got my curiosity up, I guess I'm gonna hafta go buy a box of 10 gr Crayola Flatnose bullets...

Chief Rid
Been loading 113 gr Cast bullet not GC with 10.5 gr Unique For around 1800 fps as my WP poper for about a year! Nice accurate low recoil plinker. When I get home I'll post a pic!

Oh wow. This may be the best thread I've read in a long time! CrayonBoolits!
Entwined in a 308 sub sonic discussion. Just what I was looking for!

Now we can actually do a search for a "mouse round" and it will have a hit.

The slow and quiet 308 loads are of keen interest to me. I have five friends who are reloading and they asked me to find them some great 308 sub sonic load formulas... I can't wait to put the chart together with the "mouse round" on the bottom! Any other slow and quiet 308 load formulas would be deeply appreciated!

I like the rallying cry: one shot one mouse.

I hear the argument about the---"why not just take out the 22?" But for many applications the big, heavier 308 bullet is needed. My buddies hunt legally but in areas where low noise is preferred for a host of reasons... a 22 cal would not do the job.

There's always the OO buckshot over 3.5 of Bullseye load. Gives about 500 fps. You can shoot the buckshot naked, but it's better to give them a coat of Liquid Alox or Johnson Paste Wax. Any primer (even large pistol) and you can substitute any FLAKE pistol powder in the very fast range (Bullseye, RedDot, 700X, Solo 1000, Nitro 100, Clays, WSL) but avoid sphericals. Prime and charge (no sizing needed), then thumb in a buckshot. Done.

I had read Rocky's article over on his website about this very thing and thought about posting over here and asking if anyone had used Blue Dot for the same thing since that is the only pistol powder I have on hand?

Wouldn't ya just know it? Eight grandkids and not a crayon in the house. Searched high and low.

Really got my curiosity up, I guess I'm gonna hafta go buy a box of 10 gr Crayola Flatnose bullets...

A big disappointment in my life. I never owned one of them big 64 count crayon boxes with a crayon sharpener in the box.
Might be worth the investment for making "spitzers"?

This is the first time that I can recall posting detailed "load data" on the web. Please remember to start low and "work up" to posted maximum for saftey. It was safe in MY RIFLE at the time. IT MAY NOT BE IN YOUR RIFLE WITH CURRENT CRAYONS AND PRIMERS? I used a red one. Data may not hold true for other colors?

Stay safe.

Cheezywan

Wife is now on the case...will bring home an assortment of crayon stubs. Suspect diffgernt brands might be of differnt diameters.

The deadlies all lube boolits are Black Crayons, of course!

I made up some wax loads once for my 44 hog leg. First by drilling out and counter sinking the primer pocket so that a shotgun primer would slip fit into it. Then pressing the cases into a block of paraffin, kind of like a cookie cutter.
If memory servers me correct I think the paraffin could of stood to be a little softer to make cutting the projectile a little easer. A the shotgun primer was a little hotter than need be. But the gun nor shooter suffered any ill effects and it was fun popping off a few rounds in the basement.

Chief, you didn't mention in your original post what powder charge you are using with those Hornady half-jacket bullets?
I have a similar load for my 19" barreled 30-06, with the same bullet and primer, over 13gr of Green Dot, for 1,850 fps. The powder is held against the primer with a pinch of cotton ball which is pushed through the case mouth then pressed down using a q-tip or small wooden dowel.

The same load, but with the Hornady 90gr XTP (30 Carbine bullet) gives me 1,880 fps.

15gr of Green Dot gives 2,000 fps with the 100gr half jacket bullet, and 2,100 fps with the 90 gr XTP.

I settled on 14.5 gr because point of impact at 25 yards was the top of the "thick" section of my duplex scope reticle, so it was easy to aim.

Another similar load, but with a 183gr cast RN (from Lee #90370) used 14gr Green Dot for just over 1,500 fps.

All of these were louder than a 22 rifle, but still much quieter than full power loads, and very little recoil.

Green Dot is my favorite powder. That was some welcomed info for sure.

Glad to help. What velocity were you getting with the Universal Clays powder? Were you using any sort of filler to hold the powder in place?

The piece of cotton ball trick seems to work pretty well; I've pulled apart a couple rounds that were rattling loose in my pocket after a week of hunting, and the powder charge was still held at the back of the case against the primer.

There is a company offering special brass for these small charge loads; I don't remember the name though. The brass is machined with the correct outside dimensions, but the inside is mostly solid, with a small hole for ignition all the way through the case, and a small open area towards the front of the case to hold powder. If you picture a case about 3/4 filled with epoxy then drilled through to the flash hole, that's what these are, but all the same material (brass or steel, don't remember which). They were expensive though, something around $100 for 4 or 5 cases. I think a guy could have some of these machined from brass if you were serious about good consistent reduced loads.

I have not shot what I have loaded so far. If the weather holds I may get to put them down range this weekend. I am really just messing around until turkey starts. Cabin fever you know. In a month all this will be forgotten until May when more serious shooting will have to be done to test new big game loads. I have lots of wad material just waiting to be used from another project that never was completed. As I have said many times, I love Green Dot. I even put it on my cereal in the morning.

. . . As I have said many times, I love Green Dot. I even put it on my cereal in the morning.

And next you'll be telling us your hair grows out in bangs.

Looks like 11.1 grains for Green Dot to hit the same timing spot as the Unique load.

I asked my daughter last night if she had any crayons that she did not want. I now have an endless supply of 30 caliber paper patch boolits.

Dang, I KNEW I forgot something yesterday. Went to town to pick up my new toy (Blackhawk in .45 Colt) and got so fixated on it I plumb fergot about those Crayola Soft Points.

Well, I got around to getting some Paper Jacketed Soft Points today. Too dark now to try it out, but I'll see about punching some paper in the morning.

Here she is boys. It is a Spring Green from the Crayola 64 collection. Spent and primed 30.06 case and pushed her home. Should make an impressive splat!!!!

Good looking ammo boys. Paper patched pfoxy? Your work, or the crayon wrapper?
You have a 64 count box Chief? I'm a little green with envy. Do they still have a sharpener in the box? Is that what you used to make the spire point?

What bullet weight did you fellers choose?

My above posted load data used a more or less round nose bullet of unknown weight. I just broke it off at near the length of a 180 grainer.

I wish you all good shooting and much fun.

Cheezywan

My results were disappointing. Big problem for me is that I don't have a way to de-prime without resizing, so I got a lot of primer-blowby and general nastiness in the chamber. I spent most of an hour cleaning the crud out of my rifle after expending 3 rounds.

I will say the first round was pretty impressive. At about 25 feet, it hit the side of the garage hard enough to ding the cedar shingle noticably.

The piece I weighed came in at about 28gr.

I wound up having to peel the paper off the crayon to make it fit the case neck.

A mildly amusing way to while away a couple of hours on a winter Sunday afternoon, but not something I expect to pursue any further.

A completely dismal report there p. Now what am I going to do with 150 rd of crayola? yep. Built in sharpener, CM.

Save some cases fired with full charge loads. Can deprime the few you'd want to play with by hand, using a long thin punch...a long nail filed to eneter the flash hole...a broken tip ice pick...(guess a dozen things could be used in a pinch).

Pfoxy,I wonder how close those jumbo kindergarden crayons are to your .45 colt bullets???:D

Man! I just had a revelation. I could load the 7.62 X54R with the crayola round. Could even "Mexican match" the surplus stuff. Just pull the bullet and pour out the powder and stick in a crayon piece. The old M44 Mosine would be the perfect platform for that round. Sometimes I amaze myself.

I'm going to load one up right now and put it down the bore. this should be a hoot.

Hey. The 100 gr plinker load ought to go well in the Mosine too. Hot dog!!!

I'm back! Shot 3 at a lawn chair expecting a splatter. I had to get close and look around before I found some pink dust. Yes these rounds were pink. I shot one right at my feet on the cement patio and no splatter there either, just dust. The bore looks clear. I will give it a swipe. I'm back again Lots of black but no pink. I think these are highly fragmentable very accurate backyard vermine rounds.

We just brought new life to the old Mosine.

My second Contender barrel many years ago was a 22 Hornet. (I'm a dedicated Hornet nut). Got an idea one night....loading 22 pellets in the Hornet. Did not fit:(

So I trimmed the neck back about .050" or a hair more. Loaded a Small Rifle Magnum primer. Opened barrel and just dropped a pellet in followed by my new case. POW! It would bury the pellet in the the back yard fence!!:eek::D

Back inside to make up ten cases. These were great to use with old worn out cases. About as strong as a stout pellet gun:D

You guys that do not have them should get a LEE depriming punch and base. I happen to have a LEE Handloader for 3/4 of the rounds I load for and I like to deprime my cases BEFORE tumbling. Works out great.

Vincent, just wondering, how accurate those 22 hornet pellets were? I've got a 223 Contender that I don't shoot much, but now I'm thinking...........

I wonder those new ultra lite pellets probably would just zing right out.

Hhhhhhmmmm sounds like more mad scientist work. :rolleyes:............

I also have a .204 ruger in a 15 inch contender I bet 20 cal pellets would be just the ticket. Now we are cooking.....

New life to the Mosine and now some Contenders. What else can we get off the shelf and into action?

Hey, you fellows wanting a cat sneeze in or out of doors, I buy the plastic training bullets from speer designed to ride on a primed case. I shoot with kids for hours with these when the weather doesnt permit going outside. I get them for the 357, not sure what other calibers they have, but I turned one down this weekend on the lathe and it worked famously in the 06. Not sure how it will stack up against the crayola, but sure to be much cleaner in the bore and no messy clean up.

Sounds a great load, but your cats must sneeze a lot louder than any than I have had.
I have made up quite a few loads with cast bullets for my .308, .270 and .257 Roberts. Most of them are running around 1200 fps, which makes for a quiet load. I have had good accuracy with them out to 50 yards, mostly because I don't try them at 100 yards.

I've read a couple of reports that "crayola loads" were difficult to clean in this thread. Puzzles me abit?

What was difficult about cleaning wax and primer gunk?

That mouse was a long time ago. The rifle barrel cleaned easy with nothing more than Hoppe's #9. A couple of "wet ones", followed by a couple "dry ones", and I was done. The bore was clean before the shot. The brass "was" neck-sized only for that rifle. I'm sure of that.

This might be the first and last time that I post "load data" on the web?

Stay safe out there.

Cheezywan

My Mosine has a very dark rough bore and fouls badly. It was no problem to clean with Hoppes 9 but I fear it was mostly melted crayon. I don't know shat is making it out the bore. Further testing will reveal all the answers.

I stuffed a 22 target type pellet into my 22-250 savage 26" target barrel with just a large rifle primer. Kind of a pain to get the pellet to sit in just right. if you loaded them backwards, it sat perfect.

It was so quiet you wouldn't believe it. made more noise smacking the cardboard. Only thing is, it was pretty low powered. It barely made it through 2 layers of cardboard at 10 yds.

I'd imagine with the long barrel and a poor seal around the neck it isn't conductive of great velocity. Cool thing was, just goofing off, I got one pellet next to other. One loaded forwards, the other loaded backwards. OK it was only 10 yds but both were just sitting on a card table chair.

So next step is to try the 223 contender16"., I need to retrieve the frame from my pa's and see how a break action will do.

Should be better velocity on the short barrel less friction. IF that doesn't work, then I may try a couple flakes of bullseye in the 22-250. I'm urban, so the low noise was really nice. just need a touch more power.

My difficulty with cleaning was "crayon crumbles" in the chamber. The bore cleaned easily, but I spent quite a lot of time getting the chunks out of the chamber. That's probably because I have no way to deprime brass without full-length resizing, so the brass never "sealed" to the chamber and there was a lot of blowby.

PFoxy,

Get a LEE de-capping die. I use one all the time because I de-cap, then polish/tumble, then trim and re-size. Works great. It's an extra step, I like to polish the case with the primers out. Not quite as much gunk in the pocket when they are clean.

Yup! Great tool for less than $10 (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=136543&t=11082005). It's what your Lee Challenger press from your Anniversary kit is for when you move up to a bigger one. You just leave the decapper set up in the Challenger full time. I actually swap mine out for Lee bullet sizers when I use those, but the Challenger makes a great extra operation tool.

I stuffed a 22 target type pellet into my 22-250 savage 26" target barrel with just a large rifle primer. Kind of a pain to get the pellet to sit in just right. if you loaded them backwards, it sat perfect.

It was so quiet you wouldn't believe it. made more noise smacking the cardboard. Only thing is, it was pretty low powered. It barely made it through 2 layers of cardboard at 10 yds.

I'd imagine with the long barrel and a poor seal around the neck it isn't conductive of great velocity. Cool thing was, just goofing off, I got one pellet next to other. One loaded forwards, the other loaded backwards. OK it was only 10 yds but both were just sitting on a card table chair.

So next step is to try the 223 contender16"., I need to retrieve the frame from my pa's and see how a break action will do.

Should be better velocity on the short barrel less friction. IF that doesn't work, then I may try a couple flakes of bullseye in the 22-250. I'm urban, so the low noise was really nice. just need a touch more power.

I finally got around to using some "hypervelocity" 22 cal pellets into the 22-250. The are plastic almost like a sabot, but don't detach and then the "lead" which was pretty hard, might have been aluminium for the metal part. I thought they might seal a little better than the lead pellets and get better performance.

I stuffed them into the 22-250 casing with just a primer. The pellet sat in there really nice, didn't make much noise but the power was pretty low. Barely made it through the cardboard at 15 yds. I'm thinking its a problem with the 26" pipe they have to go down. soon as I bring home my Contender frame, I'm going to try the 16" 223 barrel.

I am taking the plinker 30.06 load with me hunting this weekend. All squirrels are warned now. Stay clear or you will become a target. We had a bobcat and a fox sighting last weekend. The bobcat is getting really cloase to camp but in his defense we camp in the swamp. He took offense when we returned to camp last Sat. night. Squirrels are in season but I don't think I want to clean any. I may have to rethink this. Just frustrated from not getting a shot at a deer in a few weeks. I'll get over it.

I never did crony that 100 gr plinker. It put up a good 3 shot group at 100 yds but it was 5 inches low of my POA. I will probably try to find a loading that puts it at my POA, after season. Are there any suggestions on this so I don't have to try trial and error. I did not check the POA at 25 yds either. It could be right on there if the bullet is already lobbing into the target. Darn. Why didn't I check all that when I started this mess?

Does your scope have a duplex reticle? You can use the area where the bottom wire goes from thick to thin as an aiming point. If you have a variable power scope, may find a setting where it's "dead on" at some range. Worth a trip to the range to find out.

I will probably try it out on a grey squirrel before I get to the range. I think there is a duplex on the tikka. ?Sounds like a winner to me. I went back and read the old threads on this and looked up my loadings. We have really got this down, I think. No reason for things not to go well.