Okay, I now have the addiction. I need an authentic flintlock rifle for my very own.

Must be traditional style, something that is of the 1840 or earlier style.

And it should be able to group at 50 yards well (if I do my part).

There is an authentic muzzleloading org I want to join and they have regular accuracy shoots. I have attended ONE of these and I witnessed some of these guys shooting their's very well.

I am drawn to the Jaeger for the claims of accuracy. And I don't want a gun with a super long barrel if I can help it. I prefer a shorter barrel especially because I would also like to hunt deer with this gun and the woods around my place are thick and a good carry gun is needed.

I have also looked at some of those canoe guns (short barreled) but do not know how they are in the accuracy department.... again 50 yards. Traditional shoots.

Any caliber of that era should do since all of them are capable of taking down a deer as well as shooting nice holes in paper.

Oh yea, and I want to spend under $650 for this flintlock. Less is even better.

If you guys have any ideas or direction here it would be greatly appreciated. I have been shooting a 58 caliber Harper's Ferry pistol for a while now and it is about the coolest form of shooting I have ever been involved with. I now know I am a flintlock man and wonder why it has taken me to the age of 50 to figure out that I must have one of these old-styled rifles!

There are a lot of very nice flintlock around. I have T/C Hawken and Renegads and Lyman Trade Rifles and Great Plains Rifles, all are flintlocks. I have seen a lot of flintlocks on the used gun racks in the shops I visit. Sometimes there are real bargains available. It depnds what you prefer. All the best...
Gil

For less than your 600.00 limit I'd recommend a Lyman Plains rifle in 54 cal.

Thanks guys. I just was looking at the Lymans Plains this AM on a website retailer. Not a bad price either.

The Lymans TRADE Rifle also looks good to me( but what do I know). It comes in either 50 or 54 Cal. They are 1 in 48 twist.

Is the TRADE a step down from the Lymans PLAIN rifle in trems of accuracy, or some other characteristic?

And, which caliber is better for target shooting?

Just looking at some of the options. And you guys know much more than I about muzzleloader flintlock rifles, so any sasge input is certainly welcome.

Check out the prices for Lymans at DNR Sports: http://www.dnrsports.com/ . Both the Trade Rifle and the Great Plains Rifle. The best prices on the net. I personally love the .54s.

The Lyman flintlocks are my favorite. The differences between the Trade Rifle and the Great Plains Rifle are simple. The Trade Rifle has a single trigger, brass furniture and a slightly shorter barrel and lower price. The Great Plains Rifle has two triggers (a set trigger and a standard trigger, but the front trigger always fires the gun), a longer barrel, blued furniture and a higher price. I have both models in .50 and .54, but like the .54 a bit better for no special reason. Take care...
Oberndorf

I have noticed some really good prices at the MidSouth website. Take care...
oberndorf

Done. I just ordred a 54 Cal FLINTLOCK Lymans Trade Rifle. I don't understand why dnr does not sell all the round balls etc for these, just flints. You guys are right dnr had by far the best prices for a Lyman Flintlock!!! I am psyched!

Now I need to get me some 54 cal round balls! (and maybe minnie's)...

Cool! Thanks again!!! Any other recommendations or advice before I get this 54 cal in would be super. I already shoot, reload modern brass, and have used other people's flintlocks so I am not totally a novice.

Midsouth did have slightly better price by about 10 bucks but they didn't have any instock.... so dnr got the nod. Midsouth does have better pricing on the round balls. I got .530 and .535 for this. Does anyone have experience with these two slightly different sized round balls in a 54 cal Lyman?

Good choice! The rifle may prefer .530" or .535" lead balls depending upon whether you use .010" or .015" thick patches. I use both patches and vary the powder charges and have found what my .54 flintlocks prefer. All the best...
Gil

I wonder what starting powder weight I should start at. 60 Grains? Also, I most likely will start with the
.530 diameter balls just to give me that tiny bit extra clearanace so I'm not having to pull a ball because of some mess up in the beginning. Do the Lyman Rifles come with good instructions and recommendations? such as powder ranges?

60 grains is OK, but you could use half that for blood thirsty pop cans. The usual rule if thumb is to use a patch that's as thick as the barrel-ball gap. So use a .010 patch with a .530 ball in a .54 barrel for a start. Fouling will build up so each shot gets harder to load if you're light on lube. The tightest spot is usually a couple of inches ahead of the breech. Wet swab before it gets too hard to load, and always finish with a dry patch. Dry brushing works if the humidity is low. Note the color of the fouling on your flashpan. If it's grey, it's dry. If it's black, it's wet.

Have fun
Jack

You can see the instructions here, so preview them while you're waiting.
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/rifles.htm

Bye
Jack

I recall reading on another forum that either walmart or k-mart had really good prices. Not sure which. I think you have to ask for their catalog at the counter. That''s been quite a while ago. I also read that the flint (locks) were inferior quality but like I said that was some time ago and cost is a factor.

I suggest picking up a copy of Lyman's "Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual". This book is widely available for less than $20.

Lyman has done more labratory testing of black powder loads than anyone else. They list loads, velocity, and pressures for the .54 RB, with black powder, Pyrodex, and Clear Shot. However, because the "substitutes" have a higher flash point, they do not work well in flintlocks, and you certainly do not want to have the problem of a load in the barrel that won't fire. My recommendation would be to use black powder in 2F granulation. You should prime the pan with 4F, although 3F will also work.

The flintlock has an open hole direct to the chamber. Don't fire with someone standing just to the right of you. Your Lyman rifle is designed for maximum pressures of around 12,000 psi. Do not attempt to experiment with in-line loads and projectiles. My neighbor did this with disasterous results.

Thanks for the sage recommendations.

I have found in other flintlocks I tried that triple seven works fine in the barrel and 3F that I hand grind to finer particles.... I haven't been able to find 4F lately here in Upstate NY... so grinding down 3F is where I plan on going until I can find some 4F. For some reason I had trouble igniting 3F in the pan.

The 54 cal lyman should be here this week. I am psyched to try her out.

Well the 54 cal Lyman Trade Rifle in flintlock finally arrived. It is handsome. Too bad it came in the middle of the week and nearly 2 weeks after I ordered it supposedly "in stock". Ugh, due to "work needs" I will not be able to shoot it now until NEXT weekend. Boohooo.

But, I did get to check it out last night and it throws a good spark. I like the fit and feel of this gun. I like the shorter barrel as I hope to actually hunt white tail with thsi and a long barrel would be a pain. I hope she shoots well to 50 yards as I intend to shhot target with it, too... I hope. I am not enamored with the sites but at least for me they line right up. Yet, I am a big fan of peep sites and a front globe site. I know they have these aftermarket at places like Midway USA and other suppliers. I forget the rear site and front site designation but I know they have them and they supposedly are easy to attach to this Lyman Trade Rifle.

I was so anxious to test out this 54 caliber muzzleloader I took some time off work and ran home yesterday before sunset and loaded her up.

First GOEX black powder works better than triple seven.

Second, this is so much fun I can't believe it has taken me this long to get a big 54 caliber flintlock! The only way it could be more fun, maybe, is having your very own cannon!

Once I figured out the GOEX situation she lit up and fired everytime! I used the iron sites she came with and I was able to keep a good group in hunting poses.

After starting at 80 grains of powder I arrived at 100 grains of 3F GOEX with a .530 Round Ball on a .010 lubed patch. I had a blast! Yet the recoil was tame. Very tame. Much less than I expected. The gun fit TO ME was perfect. Amazing!

This Trade Rifle is only 36 inches long, balances well, carries well, shoots well, and I know it will be my new gun for whitetail this year. I will buy the after market rear peep with front globe and see if I can extend my range/ accuracy. All I know is I am not in a big hurry to get the upgraded sites, but I am anxious to get back out there with this flintlock and make some more KaBOOMS.

My only negatives ares: (1) The rear site does not fit tightly in the dovetail. It slides too easily. (2) The trigger has a alot of "grind" (creep) before the hammer falls.... But I took that chance when I ordered the lower qiuality Trade Rifle over the Plains or Hunter. But I wanted the shorter barrel and the twist more conducive for ROUND BALL... Like most things in life I had to do some "satificing"... But I would say the ideal hunting/shooting flintlock rifle for the woods of the Northeast would have the Trade Rifle 28 inch 1 in 48 twist 54 caliber Barrel but would have two triggers and the hammer trigger would not have any creep.

Maybe I can hone the sear some and reduce the creep. Any ideas?

I do OVERALL really like this 54 Caliber Flintlock!

"Must be traditional style, something that is of the 1840 or earlier style."

Nothing mentioned so far meets this requirement. I don't think it can be met at the price mentioned. The Lyman GPR is a nice rifle. Midsouth Shooters Supply always has the best price.

A rifle like the GPR would have be a percussion rifle, and it's not really a replica of anything.

So more feedback:

I did a head to head test comparing Triple Seven to Goex 3F as the load powder
(NOTE not a test for the pan powder; GOEX there for sure, already learned Triple Seven does not work as pan powder).

Loading 90 grains of each under a .530 ball with a .010 lubed patch.

I started with the GOEX and she shot beautifully. Fast ignition. Grouped cloverleafs.

Next I tried the Triple Seven, with GOEX 3F as pan powder.

The first time I let the hammer fall I got pan ignition but nothing else. Repanned. Got a long delay. Wow. Ugly. I shot four more times with Triple Seven each time the delay was much longer than when I did the exact same load with GOEX under the ball and GOEX in the pan.

Next I went back to Goex under the ball and Goex in the pan. Beautiful. Fast ignition. Accurate as I could ask for. Shot about 20 Round Balls and blew the snot out of the center of some unfortunate paper bullseyes.

Conclusion: Triple Seven sucks in my flintlock. GOEX works great in my Flintlock. But I can't find anyone who sells GOEX Black Powder (not the pinnacle stuff similar to Triple Seven) anywhere in New York State!

That Triple Seven may work okay in other guns but in my FlintLock and Traditional Percussion guns I get poor ignition compared to GOEX. I would also try other types of BP, including foreign made Black Powder, but I need a source in NY State. I might consider going just over the border in PA (near Elimira/Binghamton) but my online searching has revealed no Black Powder suppliers to general public near the PA/NY State border on the western half of these states.

But I sure did have fun with my 54 Cal BP Rifle this weekend. I shot it at night and it made quite a show of fire.

Any of the substitute powders are much harder to ignite than is black powder. The reason you can find it in every store is the very reason it doesn't work well in a flintlock. You can order Goex or Graf black powder in any granulation and UPS will deliver to your door but the "haz-mat" fee makes it impractical to order less than five pounds at a time and 25 pounds is better since the haz-mat fee is the same for one pound or 25 pounds. You'd be surprised how fast you can go through five pounds of powder but if you can get a few guys to go in on it you can get 25 pounds delivered for less per pound than any powder in any store. I order 25 pounds per year and there are always guys at rendezvous looking for powder and no one selling it so no problem getting rid of any excess.

Black Powder, baby. Now that I have found it, there is no going back. I need a local source for it. None of my buddies THAT NEED POWDER are black powder guys. I just can't justify ordering via UPS and paying $30-45 extra bucks for the fees and the special handling. I just have to believe there is a supplier within 100 miles of southern tier of NY state.

I may need to head down to PA. probably find some other ietms I need from the PA store while I am at it.

Well it's not quite that bad yet Zoar, IIRC the hazmat fee only adds 15-20 dollars on top of normal shipping so if you order five pounds your price per pound will probably be a bit less than normal retail. Remember that the retailer probably had to pay the shipping to their store and has to include that in his retail price, so you are paying that fee anyway.:) Not to mention the cost of driving that 200 mile round trip, even if you do find a retailer within 100 miles. I have read on the Traditional Muzzleloading site that folks find they can buy five pounds at a time delivered for less than the cost of Pyrodex at Wallmart.
Track of the Wolf has Goex at $12.88 per pound DELIVERED. But they have a 25 pound minimum. Grafs has thier own store brand, which is very good German powder, at $11.59 per pound, also delivered, but I don't know their minimum, you'd have to check out their website.
Speaking of the web, just Google Goex powder and you can get a list of distributor locations.