What should I be using as far as alloy to make bullets for my muzzleloader rifle???

I will be casting maxi's and also the Lee real bullet...Do I use all lead or maybe some wheel weights in it..And at what temp do you suggest I use..
I will be using the Lee 20 lb. bottom pour pot...Thanks....

Use pure lead. Nothing else expands into the rifling enough to insure accuracy. For Sabots it doesn't matter.

Ditto what Bob said. Stick on wheel weights seem to have a high lead content. They are very soft and can be scratched with a thumb nail. If you have a hardness tester for your bullets, the BHN should come close to 5.

What are sabots? I thought they were for shot gun shells or what ever..

Where do you get them at? I have always used round balls only...

Sabots are a plastic holder that fits the bore and holds a sub caliber bullet. The sabot forms the seal between the rifling and the sabot and carries a sub caliber bullet down the bore imparting the spin to the sub caliber bullet for stability.

A 50 caliber muzzle loader can shoot a sabot with a 45 caliber or 429 caliber pistol bullet in it. This way you don't have to shoot soft lead projectiles that conform to the rifling in the bore. These also can be shot at quite a bit higher muzzle velocities than larger soft lead projectiles. They are available where muzzle loading supplies are and from catalogs such as Midway and Cabela's.

Oh,ok...So I can use a 45 cal lead slug with the so called sabot and
possibly make my bullet with old tire weights then...I see you said
.429 dia. Now isn't that the same as a 44cal? Or do I have that
confused? Will the lead slug be as accurate with the sabot on it?
Or should I be using a different type of bullet all together?

Nope Sabots come designed for several different calibers. You can get them for .429 44 caliber bullets and for .452 45 caliber bullets and some even come with their own special sized bullets.

This means you can cast up your wheel weights into 44 or 45 caliber bullets and shoot to beat the band with them. I used to do that a bunch. Saves on lead and is plenty powerful enough for deer. I still like the minni ball, maxi ball or Lee REAL bullets for elk though.

As far as accuracy is concerned some are very accurate and some are just so so. This is wherer some experimenting is necessary to find what works in your gun.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd267/pennygoat/leeimproved45cal.jpg

Will the lee improved mini work will with a sabot on it?

No the Lee improved minnie won't work in a Sabot, their designed to fit the bore of the rifle. I cast and shot a bunch of these and they have a cavity cast into the bottom so the firing gases will expand the back of the skirt to engrave the rifling. They have to be cast out of pure lead to work (so the back is soft enough to expand into the rifling). These are a very good and accurate game bullet.

Be sure and mike your bore when you order one of these as Lee sells a standard and an oversize in 54 caliber. I'm not sure if they do in 50 without looking in their catalog

So can someone tell me which bullet mold will make the best cast bullet to use with a sabot in my 50 cal. muzzle loader..The rifle is the Lyman Mustang..I want to use cast bullets if possible in it..Or should I just use a plain old cast bullet of 50 cal. and not worry about the sabots...

I found the Lyman 508656 Plains bullet much more accurate than the Lee Minié. The Lee, like most Miniés, can't take a heavy load. Best results were with 40 grains fo FFFg, while the Lyman is happy with 90 grains of FFg.

Lyman 508656 Plains bullet;

http://lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/images/508656.gif

http://lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/bpmold.htm

Bye
Jack

Muzzle loaders are funny beasts and some are pretty particular to a specific bullet load combination. Of the several I've had they all liked different things. The last a Remington 54 caliber 700 ML with a fast 1 in 28 twist loved patched balls, a Lee oversize improved Minnie ball and the commercial Hornedy Great Plains hollow point which it would shoot near one inch groups at a hundred yards. There's an old CVA side hammer gun in the safe now that belongs to my old shooting partner and it kinda likes Lee's REAL (Rifling Engraved At Loading) cast bullets with a mild load of Triple Seven Powder.

This is one place where your just going to have to do some experimenting to find what shoots well in your rifle. There really is no best nor a guarantee that anything will work on first trial. Welcome to muzzle loading. We all could recommend specific favorite loads, but none of them may be specifically accurate in your rifle.

Jack,

So are you using this bullet with a sabot or are you talking plain...

Plain, hand lubed. The first three digits in a Lyman mould number indicate the diameter, so .508". The last three digits is the design number, roughly in chronological order. You may find some old moulds with a four or five digit number. These were padded out with zeros recently, so the 3118 became the 311008.

Bye
Jack

Which bullet do you think would work good in my lyman mustang rifle..50 cal..Thanks

Does it matter which sabot you buy to use,or are they pretty much the same as long as you get the correct cal. size...

My old T/C flinter has a 1:48" twist, so I'm a bit reluctant to recommend anything for your 1:28" twist Mustang. I have no experience with sabots, but you could try the 385 grain bullets from Hornady or Buffalo Bullets. They both have small hollow points and small hollow bases. Their hollow base isn't near Minié size, so they can handle more powder. The 410 grain flat point bullets should shoot too. These are not saboted bullets.

Hornady Great Plains Bullets:
https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=fdc362080c19f8470abb8717812cd521&page=shop%2Fbrowse&category_id=5dadafd809b601a67c77adcd3834ac1d

Bye
Jack

Normally muzzle loaders with a fast twist such as your 1 in 28 will shoot conical bullets such as minnie balls and the Hornedy great plains bullets well. It also may shoot Sabot's well, but the only way your going to find out is try. My Remington 54 caliber simply wouldn't shoot any sabot I tried and I tried a bunch of them. Several other muzzle loaders I had gave good accuracy with Sabot's.

This is one area where even the difference between the lube you use and the amount of powder can make or brake accuracy and only individual testing will tell. It's totally different than finding a good accurate factory cartridge load for a deer rifle. Lots of variables including how deep your rifling is cut, the individual twist rate, the actual bore diameter or how well your bore is seasoned and more variables such as are you using black powder or a black powder substitute such as triple seven, are you using a wad such as a wonder wad between the powder and the sabot or even which sabot are you using. How well and often you clean between shootings and how often you clean or brush out the bore when shooting can change accuracy if your shooting real black powder.

Muzzle loading is a lot of fun simply because of all those variables, but there are no easy answers and your going to have to do some experimenting to find what combination of lube, bullet, sabot, powder, wad and individual load shoots best in your particular rifle. There's a good article on fire lapping muzzle loaders also and accuracy over on our Beartooth technical side if you'd care to look at that part of our website.

I'd sure recommend reading all your owners manual and Lymans book on muzzle loading shooting as a primer and beginning tool. Measuring your exact bore will also give you an idea of what you need as far as bore size, patch thickness and bullet diameter for optimum accuracy out of your specific rifle.

So tell me how the Lyman Maxi ball bullet might be..I have that mold on hand...Not sure what the mold number is for it,but it is the maxi..Do you think this bullet will work in the 1 in 28 twist barrel?

If it warms up some,I will get out there and try it..Thanks for all your help..John

It should work very well for that twist. Just be sure and use pure or soft lead so it will conform to the rifling. I like to lube them with bore butter and sometimes they shoot better with a wonderwad between them and the powder.

Sure know what your talking about the warming. Looks like our rain blew out this morning and I'm looking forward to getting to the range to sight in a few rifles. I'm changing out the coyote calling scope on the 204 for the ground squirrel scope and I have my old shooting partners new CZ 204 to sight in. Need to check sight the CZ rimfire also. I'm hoping it gets up in the mid 50's today with some nice warm sunshine. I've still got a bunch of casting and reloading to do also.

If it warms up enough,I will have to finish the corn harvest,befor doing any shooting..

Everything here is frozen this morning..My wifes car would not start,but I got it going
for her...My other truck will not run either..**** it all..My tractors even started hard..
Now their calling for more freaking snow as well...Oh well,better days ahead...

We've been warming up here in the vally, high 40's and mid 50's in the daytime and still near freezing at night. The next warm day I'm going to change out the scope on my varmint rifle from the coyote calling scope to the ground squirrel scope.

Finding good accuracy from a muzzle loader is a lot of fun, but can be frustrating. The big conicals usually work very well and sabots can be either stunningly accurate or a failure depending on the rifle. Round balls are inexpensive and fun to shoot and can be accurate in many guns including fast twist guns like yours.

Here's some articles from our tech section you might enjoy.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/48

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/57

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/40

Check the rules on sabots where you are going to hunt, in Colorado they are not legal during ML season ,rules varry from state to state.

Runnin Lead
He's from NY so unless they've changed the laws recently sabot's are legal -unlike here in ID patched ball or min/maxi.:(
My old traditions could shoot the heck out of Sabot's even with it's 1-66 twist!

I'm new to this sabot discussion.But I do know that the 45 caliber Gould bullet of 320 grains is good medicine for Whitetails.
I sized a batch of them down,with 45ACP dies,to .452 diameter.
Placed in the TC Shockwave sabot,it mikes at .502 diameter.
I'm hoping that that will be just riight for my little Wolf 50 caliber MZL.
Incidently,The bullets are lubricated,inside the sabot.Is this a positive or negative thing? I'll find out next week,and report back here.
Frank