Just wondering if anyone has used a .223 or .22-250 to kill black bear (predator control / self-defense)?

Hmmm, I guess you may do this out of neccessity? The only reason I can think of to PO a bear with a 223 or a 22/250 is that it's the only thing you have in a life or death situation? With animals like that, bigger is most definately better. Around here I would feel comfortable with a .270 + (I do PREFER .308 - 30/06), for dropping it quickly and humanely.

I suppose one could try riding a bicycle in a "blizzard" in Idaho stark a$$ naked too but why try I ask?

One of the things I get PO about is people wanting to put black bears in the same catagory as jackrabbits!

Blackbears are NOT pussycats by any means, remember that for your own good. They kill more people, hikers, hunters, birdwatchers, than any other type of bear on this continent.

I would never hunt any blackbear with a caliber less than a 30-06 using a premium bullet from 180 grain on upward. All bears warrant plenty of respect as to what they can really do, if there button is pushed. Killing a bear is never the issue, it is stopping one when they get their dander up and charge you.:eek::rolleyes:;)

Cozy -

Dang it! Now I've got iced tea spit all over the monitor screen! Cut it out! :p

Kdub......Sorry, I caused you to wet down the screen partner!!!:D

I guess I should have stated, that I for one don't ride a bicycle anymore.:rolleyes:

I do however like using my .22 caliber's (.22mag, 22Hornet, .222 Rem., 22-250) for target shooting and varmint/predator hunting. I truely believe that this is were all of these caliber's should be in my humble opinion.

Why I will even go out on that limb and include the .223 as well. I just call em where I see em stand folks. BEAR MEDICATION THEY ARE NOT!!!:eek::rolleyes::(

"I suppose one could try riding a bicycle in a "blizzard" in Idaho stark a$$ naked too but why try I ask?"

Yeah, that was funny. I'm glad I didn't have a cup of coffee in hand when I read that. As for the "why try?", the reason for the question is that in my province, the bear season is about 6 weeks long, while the varmint season is 12 months long. During the bear season, you can carry any caliber you want. However, outside the 6 week season, it is unlawful to carry anything larger than .23 caliber.

In my neck of the woods, the black bear population is very dense, and was wondering if well placed shots with 60 gr. Nosler Partitions from a .22 centrefire would be any defense at all, in life or death situations?

Does that include handguns?

In that case, I would carry my 454 or 44 with me.

Bear? Lay down 22/250, draw 454.

Does that include handguns?

In that case, I would carry my 454 or 44 with me.

Bear? Lay down 22/250, draw 454.


Handguns are prohibited up here in Canuckistan. Basically, the only folks permitted to carry them are police, military, public safety officers, conservation officers, border patrol, and the guy who drives the Brinks truck.

“Trying to get the most using the least does not always yield the best.”
Why would it ever be a good idea to use the absolute minimum caliber gun for the job.

I have a good friend in SE Oregon that's 75 years old now. No telling how many deer, elk and other critters he's accounted for in his lifetime of living in Montana and Oregon.

He has a generous supply of black bear on and near his place, which he logs and lumbers, besides hunt. There's always some animal or another hanging around his house and outbuildings, which can be a nuisance, especially at night if someone has to go out for some reason or another. Bears are a particular problem.

I don't advocate this, but he swears he's taken several with close-in ear shots with his .22LR rifle. Think I'll leave that sort of varmit control strictly up to him, while I sit on the balcony porch and watch! :p

Sorry, didn't notice your location. I guess if I had absolutely, positively no other choice, I guess that a .223 or a 22/250 is better than a stick. Have you looked into the "Bear Mace" kind of stuff ? That, at least may give you a few seconds to get the - - - outta dodge, or at least take aim on a good ear shot, although I would hate to think I was spraying that stuff at an irate momma sow.

Jack Montieth could probably empathize with your situation, and give you good advice on the Canadian aspect of all that mess.

I'm afraid I'm not much help on this one. You can carry a large calibre rifle all year around in Saskatchewan. There's very few bears around here and I've never seen one in the wild locally.

Bye
Jack

Does that include handguns?

In that case, I would carry my 454 or 44 with me.

Bear? Lay down 22/250, draw 454.


No Hand Guns in Canada

Once you have obtained your restricted firearms license in Canada, you can have a hand gun, but you must be a member of a gun club (to justify owning one), and you are only allowed to transport your hand gun to and from the gun range (No stopping for groceries on the way home!). :rolleyes:

let me tell you this first. a friend of mine blew out the shoulder on a 200lb black bear with a 7mm rem mag and tracked it for 3 days and found it still alive with 3 useable legs. now given he didnt understand that vitals on bears were different than deer. anyways there was a guy mauled last year because his dogs treed a bear and he tried to kill it with a .243. the bear came down the tree kiled at least one of his dogs and tore him up pretty bad. i would agree with the statement above on using .30 cal for bears. i use a.30-06 with 180 grain silvertips when i go. i dont kno what to tell u given ur situation other than neither of these calibers will do anything more than make the bear really mad. the bear mace wasnt a bad idea. also a buddy of mine who lived in alaska said whenever they ran into one they just spread open their jacket and yelled as loud as they could. he said he never had a problem with one charging when he did that. had one charged im sure he would have been in big trouble, but this is about the best advice i can give u.

i forgot to ask but what are shotgun laws in ur area? if u can carry one a 12 ga with a slug will drop one well.

I'm not sure if this is true or not but: There was a story going around in Kodiak Alaska back in the mid 70's that some Marines went after a Kodiak bear with m16's. The dead marines were found laying around the jeep. A dead kodiak bear was found some distance away full of holes. Maybe folk legend. Or the officers just did not want us to go hiking.

When we went hiking on the island we were ordered to carry a service 1911 in 45 acp and a cow bell and we were to ring the bell the entire time we were hiking. The bell was suppose to scare off the bears. I wondered if it was a "come to dinner bell" for the bears. Never did see a bear though. I was pretty happy about that. The Kodiak bear is a big mother......

i forgot to ask but what are shotgun laws in ur area? if u can carry one a 12 ga with a slug will drop one well.


You can carry a 12 gauge with slugs during the 2 black bear seasons, the moose season, and the white tail season, but outside of those season, you are not permitted to carry slugs, or lead/tungsten shot larger than size BB, or steel shot larger than size F.

I've heard bear spray works ok on Griz (none in these parts), but doesn't have much effect on black bear. I've heard they're basically immune to it, and after the initial shock, if any, they view it as seasoning. Anyone else hear this?

Would I be better off carrying a 12 ga. with 3.5" shells of 1 3/4 oz High Density Tungsten shot size BB, and a super-full turkey choke? I'm thinking of the Remington Wingmaster HD Waterfowl shells. If this woudl be better than a .22-250 and bear spray, where should I aim? Head? Neck? Chest?

Maybe I'll throw a can of oven cleaner in the truck. A buddy of mine accidentally got a tiny bit of it in his eye a couple of weeks ago, and it ate a hole clean through they eyeball.

I think you have answered your own question. I assume handguns are not an option in NB. If you are limited to carrying a .223 caliber weapon and your life is threatened your choices are run/pray, die, or shoot what you have in hand.

My guess is that varmint loads from a .223 cal. will be unlikely to "stop" a black bear that is closing fast. I would rather let the bear get to handshaking range and blast it with the best quality bear spray I can buy. And praying simultaneously is appropriate in any defensive situation.

Would I be better off carrying a 12 ga. with 3.5" shells of 1 3/4 oz High Density Tungsten shot size BB, and a super-full turkey choke? I'm thinking of the Remington Wingmaster HD Waterfowl shells. If this woudl be better than a .22-250 and bear spray, where should I aim? Head? Neck? Chest?

The beauty about shot guns are their versatility. You can get bangers, screamers rubber slugs and bean bags to shoot from a 12ga shot gun.

At work we carry a 12ga shot gun loaded with bean bags for bear deterrent (and a couple of slugs for security). We also carry a hand held bear banger kit which is all we ever need usually.


Maybe I'll throw a can of oven cleaner in the truck. A buddy of mine accidentally got a tiny bit of it in his eye a couple of weeks ago, and it ate a hole clean through they eyeball.

Thats just Nasty!

I've heard bear spray works ok on Griz (none in these parts), but doesn't have much effect on black bear. I've heard they're basically immune to it, and after the initial shock, if any, they view it as seasoning. Anyone else hear this?



It's not true. Bears have the most sensitive noses of any animal in the world. Many do not realize this. It is 7 times more sensitive than a bloodhounds. I once saw a demonstration on one of the nature channels with a grizzly. They put one raw chicken wing on a stick around a mile away. That grizzly put his nose in the wind...and went right to it. Now imagine the sensitivity of that nose getting a blast of pepper spray....from what I've read, it's pretty agonizing for them.

There's documented cases in Alaska of bear maulings from both grizzly and black bears that pepper spray wasn't effective stopping the charge.

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear%20spray.pdf take this as you will. However it is Imporant to be aware that even a gun can fail, also studies have shown that many of the attack that pepper spray fail to stop the person who was attack had used a spray ment for use on people or dogs.

If you are carry a long gun a good rule is .30 Cal or bigger(think 30-06) or a 12ga with rilfed slugs if you can fire it quickly a well think about carrying a gun otherwise look at bear spray. Were it is legal, I think the best combo would be a can of Spray on the right hip and .44 Mag or larger hand gun on the left

Thanks for the article Canadain. Some good information.

The information provided in the last few posts refer to griz, and I'm referring strictly to blackies. Again, I've been told blackies react differently to bear spray (cayenne pepper spray) than griz. For instance, in an attack by griz they say you should lay down and play dead. With blackies they say you should fight back. Different bear, different approach.

Has anyone other than Alyeska also heard that bear spray has little or no effect on blackies?

If I found myself in need of defense from a black bear (highly unlikely), and had nothing at hand but a .223 (double highly unlikely), I'm sure I'd use it. But I'd feel a lot better prepared with a .30-30, to be honest. Now, many folks will howl about needing something a whole lot more powerful -- that's fine, to each his own. But many thousands of black bears have fallen to the .30-30. In an easy-toting carbine, it makes fine "insurance" in black bear country, and a .45 Colt handgun in the tent at night is enough, too. Heck, 90% of the time I've spent in black bear territory I've had no weapon at all beyond a big stick, and have never come close to being threatened.

I deal with nuisance black bear here in northern Minnesota as part of my daily job.
223? WHY?
Have not anyone ever pealed the hide off a bear?
The 223 even with 60grain partitions leaves not a capable hole to drain!!!
I've "put-down" 63 bears over the past 11-years.

My all time favorite bear dropper is my CZ-550FS 9.3x62mm with speer 270grain semi-pointed.
Second is my 1895CB 45/70 with a 425grain WFN .458 at 1900fps(bear crusher extraordinare)!


For whitetail 53grain TSX Barnes or 60grain Partitions out of a 223rem DPMS 1/9 twist have worked just fine for me in the past.

But when working and when after critters with teeth/claws/bad-attitude's I want the most destruction of tissue/frame-work possible from a cartridge and that will not happen with any .224diameter bore!

George

Years ago in New Mexico, I was confronted by a black sow with cubs within almost spitting distance. We eyeballed each other for what seemed ages. I had a Rem Mod 600 that was chambered in .243AI. Kept the crosshairs centered on her nose and prayed she would keep her distance, as I didn't want to shoot her. Much to my relief, she finally turned and ambled up the mountain at an angle with the cubs following.

I'm not sure the 243 with Nosler Partitions would have been adequate before she made hambuger of me. Dang, she looked BIG!!! :eek:

Gents, we must acknowledge the situation as originally presented,
"...the reason for the question is that in my province, the bear season is about 6 weeks long, while the varmint season is 12 months long. During the bear season, you can carry any caliber you want. However, outside the 6 week season, it is unlawful to carry anything larger than .23 caliber."

So the logical options include: 1) break the law and carry a "bear gun," 2) shoot the offending bear with the .22 cal. in hand, 3) spray and pray, or 4) stay home.

As implied by others above, a black bear charge is highly unlikely. There are females with cubs and sometimes we just run out of luck. I'd go with the odds and varmint hunt with a legal weapon while carrying bear spray and remaining extra vigilant to any sign of bears in my immediate vicinity.

Hahaha...thanks Naumann. I guess it's my fault for not mentioning the bit about the .23 caliber and higher, and handguns, in the initial post.

Sounds like I should avoid shooting him/her with a .224 cal. to keep from aggravating the situation. Instead, I think I'll carry a can of seasoning, some bear bells, and a big knife in case things get hairy. Or should I say furry!

Savage Hunter: What is your options on shotguns? A good load of the largest size allowable as the second round in a pump would make a nice back up, or even a Savage Model 24 with a .223 uper barrel and a 12 or 20 ga. lower barrel loaded with the largest allowable shot size. At close range the shot travels almost as a solid, very seldom larger than a 10" group.

Savage Hunter: What is your options on shotguns? A good load of the largest size allowable as the second round in a pump would make a nice back up, or even a Savage Model 24 with a .223 uper barrel and a 12 or 20 ga. lower barrel loaded with the largest allowable shot size. At close range the shot travels almost as a solid, very seldom larger than a 10" group.


The shotgun laws are mentioned above (top of page 2). The largest shot legally permitted outside the 2 bear seasons would be BB for lead or F for steel. I have a 12 gauge super magnum, so I could use the 3.5" 1 3/4 High Density (Tungsten) size BB, but it's about $50 for a box of 10 shells, plus a $27 dangerous goods shipping charge. With tax, it'd be about $80 for a box of 10. That's $8 per round. Healthcare is free up here, so I think I'll take my chances with some bells and a 6.5" blade.

Thanks for the article Canadain. Some good information.
The information provided in the last few posts refer to griz, and I'm referring strictly to blackies. Again, I've been told blackies react differently to bear spray (cayenne pepper spray) ?
I can say from having used Bear Spray on a blackie that it works you took off like a gun shot wacking his face clearly unhappy

What's that old Alaskan tale about finding the bells and spray can in the bear scat? :p

What's that old Alaskan tale about finding the bells and spray can in the bear scat? :p

Black Bear smells like Pepper Gizzly as bells it is the way I tell ;) Head it the other way too.

With tax, it'd be about $80 for a box of 10. That's $8 per round. Healthcare is free up here, so I think I'll take my chances with some bells and a 6.5" blade.
I would still pick up a good can of Spray

Very interesting posts. As a black bear guide here in New Brunswick, I've seen bears do a lot of unpredictable stuff and they should be treated with the utmost respect. But do the readers here know that it is illegal for a NB guide to carry a firearm while he runs his baits everyday during the seasons?:eek: One of the reasons for this is that the gov't thinks it's unnecessary since there has not been a bear attack in NB in over 50yrs....lot's of urban legends....but no documented attacks.

Since NB is overflowing with bears as well as outfitters and guides offering bear hunts, bait lines are often overlapping or just a tad too close to each other....especially in the southern part of the province. Because of this, my biggest fear is running into a hurt bear, wounded from another camp as even a gravely injured bear can easily travel miles in a single night...and as it weakens, it gets more desperate and dangerous. A sow with cubs has nothing on a hurt bear.

There are two things I carry with me while running baits.....a good sharp axe and a marine airhorn(the small size that can slip into a pocket). Black bears despise loud and abrupt noise....and if needed, the airhorn does the trick. I've actually witnessed a sow abandon her cubs at the sound of the airhorn....or at least leave them(treed, of course) long enough for me to leave as I'm sure it didn't take her long to come back. The axe is a supposed last resort.:confused: I avoid pepper spray like the plague but not because it's ineffective....it's because in the heat of the moment the spray may harm YOU more than the bear. It's human nature to want to use those few extra seconds after an encounter to make sure that your spray has had an affect....that's just long enough to have it blow or drift back in your face with the wind....not fun. Don't know what it's like elsewhere....but it's windy darn near everyday here in NB!...and it changes direction every half second!:eek: And what if you have to run in the same direction you sprayed as it's the only exit route??!! That crap hangs in the air for a while and you'll be hurtin soon enough.

After saying all this, I'm of the opinion that looking for a defensive firearm for black bears just isn't necessary as the threat is practically non-existent. It's a great excuse to buy another gun and what excuse isn't?.....for every gun we buy in Canuckistan, Wendy Cukier's blood pressure goes up a little higher:)...and we all know that's a good thing.;)

A little tip for the airhorn.....since I'm constantly jumping in and out of my truck for 6-7 weeks during the spring bear season....the plastic horn that attaches to the cylinder constantly falls off as it's a friction fit....don't think that the brand matters as I've used a few. A little dab of Loc-Tite Super Glue takes care of the problem.

I hope a few of you guys have found my rant useful.

SG

There's documented cases in Alaska of bear maulings from both grizzly and black bears that pepper spray wasn't effective stopping the charge.

Yep, it can be effective, but like everything else, nothing is 100%, even firearms. I've seen studies indicating spray can be more effective than firearms (don't shoot the messenger..:D). I think a lot of that is due the the issue of if someone can effectively and accurately shoot when one is suddenly on top of them. Anyway, here's an interesting read which seems to indicate blacks are not as affected as browns...so there may be some truth to that after all. The book mentioned by Herrero is a pretty good book if anyone's read it:

http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF12/1245.html

Here is a small list of bear attacks over the past 100years.


2000s
Name, age, gender Date Species Location, comments
Don Peters, 51, male November 25, 2007 Brown Mountain Aire Lodge west of Sundre, about 90 km northwest of Calgary. The 51-year-old did not return from a hunting trip in Western Alberta. He was killed by a grizzly near his vehicle after going hunting alone. His body was found three days later. His rifle was found nearby. It had been fired but there was nothing to indicate the bear had been hit. Officials were trying to trap the bear but would not say whether it would be destroyed if captured. Upon capture, the bear may be shot, moved to another area or let go, depending on an evaluation of the bear; said Alberta resources spokesman Dave Ealey. [1]

Robin Kochorek, 31, female July 20, 2007 Black The 31-year-old woman was reported missing on July 20th after being separated from friends while mountain biking at Panorama Mountain Resort, British Columbia. She was killed by a black bear who was right where the body was recovered at 8 a.m. July 21st. Indications were that the bear had preyed upon this person or obviously was trying to claim ownership. The bear was shot on site by RCMP.[2]
Samuel Evan Ives, 11, male June 17, 2007 Black Taken from a tent in American Fork Canyon in the Uinta National Forest in Utah County, Utah where he was sleeping with his stepfather, mother and 6-year-old brother. The bear was later destroyed by state Wildlife officials.[3]

Jean-Francois Pagé, 28, male April 28, 2006 Brown Fatally mauled while staking mineral claims near Ross River, Yukon, Canada. He unknowingly walked right past a bear den containing a sow and 2 cubs. [4]
Elora Petrasek, 6, female April 13, 2006 Black She was killed and her mother and 2 year-old brother seriously injured in an attack in the Cherokee National Forest in Tennessee.[5]

Arthur Louie, 60, male September 20, 2005 Brown Killed by a female and two cubs while he was walking back to his mining camp after his truck had a flat tire at Bowron River, British Columbia.[6]

Jacqueline Perry, 30, female September 6, 2005 Black Killed in a predatory attack at the Missinaibi Lake Provincial Park, north of Chapleau, Ontario, Canada. Her husband was seriously injured trying to protect her. Ministry staff shot and killed the bear at approximately 8:00 a.m. Saturday, September 10, 2005, near the area where the fatal attack occurred in a remote area of the park. [7][8] The bear involved had already attempted to attack two fisherman an hour before this attack occurred

Harvey Robinson, 69, male August 26, 2005 Black Fatally mauled while picking plums at Selkirk, north of Winnipeg, Manitoba.
Rich Huffman, 61, male; Kathy Huffman, 58, female June 23, 2005 Brown Killed in their tent at a campsite along the Hulahula river 12 miles upriver from Kaktovik in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

Isabelle Dube, 35, female June 5, 2005 Brown Killed while jogging with 2 friends on the Bench Trail in Canmore, Alberta

Merlyn Carter, 71, male 2005 Black Found dead in the main cabin of his fishing camp located 300 km Northeast of Ft. Smith, Northwest Territories, Canada.

Timothy Treadwell, 46, male ; Amie Huguenard, 37, female October 2003 Brown Found by their pilot, dead and most of their bodies consumed at Kaflia Bay, Katmai National Park, Alaska on October 6, 2003. Treadwell was world-famous for his books and documentaries on living with wild bears in Alaska. State Troopers investigating the incident recovered an audiotape of the attack. Only a few days before, Treadwell filmed himself with the bear that killed him in the background, while commenting that it was a bear just like this one — older, struggling to bulk up for the winter — that posed the most threat to humans. The two were killed on the last night before their scheduled pickup, after spending several months in the Alaskan bush. [9]

Forestry worker April 17, 2003 Black Stalked, killed and partially consumed by a large, black bear near Waswanipi, a village in northern Quebec.
Christopher Bayduza September 2002 Black Attacked and killed at a remote oil rigging site in northeastern British Columbia.

Maurice Malenfant September 2002 Black Attacked and killed in his campsite in Gaspé region of Quebec.

Ester Schwimmer, 5 months, female August 2002 Black Bear grabs and kills 5 month old infant from stroller on the porch of home in Fallsburg, New York.

Timothy Hilston, 50, male October 30, 2001 Brown Bear attacked and killed an elk hunter as he was gutting an elk in Western Montana. [10]

Adelia Maestras Trujillo, 93, female August 2001 Black Bear breaks into a house in New Mexico and is confronted by the elderly owner who dies during the attack.
Kyle Harry, 18, male June 3, 2001 Black Attacked and killed at a rural campsite 25 km. east of Yellowknife in the Northwest Territories, Canada.

George Tullos, 41, male July 14, 2000 Brown His partially consumed body was found at Run Amuk campground in Hyder, Alaska.

Mary-Beth Miller, 24, female July 2000 Black Attacked and killed while on a training run in Quebec, Canada.
Glena Ann Bradley, female May 2000 Black Killed and partially consumed by a 112 pound female and her 40 pound yearling. The attack occurred near the Goshen Prong/Little River trail junction 1.5 miles upstream from Elkmont, Great Smoky Mountains near Gatlinburg, Tennessee

[edit] 1990s
Name, age, gender Date Species Location, Comments
Ned Rasmussen, male November 1999 Brown Found dead 2 days after he disappeared on a deer hunting trip on Uganik Island, Alaska.

Ken Cates, 53, male May 25, 1999 Brown Killed while hiking on the Funny River Trail near Soldotna, Alaska. Investigators found bear blood at the scene, and determined that Cates fired two shots with his rifle scoring at least one hit. The bear was never found.

Craig Dahl, 26, male May 17, 1998 Brown Last seen alive hiking in the Two Medicine area of Glacier National Park. His partially consumed remains were found three days later.

Audelio Luis Cortes, 40, male February 8, 1998 Brown Killed by a single head bite while working with a seismic crew in the Swanson River oil field near Kenai, Alaska

Patti McConnell, 37, female August 17, 1997 Black Died from injuries while defending herself from attack near Liard River Hotsprings, British Columbia

Raymond Kitchen, 56, male August 17, 1997 Black Died from injuries while attempting to rescue McConnell. McConnell's 13 year old son and an unidentified 20 year Calgary Alberta man were also injured in the attack Liard River Hotsprings, British Columbia

Christine Courtney, 32, female July 5, 1996 Brown Killed while hiking in Kluane National Park, Yukon. Her husband was also attacked but survived.

Sevend "Sven" Satre, 53, male June 1996 Black Killed while checking fencelines at his rural ranch in British Columbia

Shane Fumerton, Bill Caspell October 9, 1995 Brown Killed by bears claiming shot elk near Radium Hot Springs, British Columbia

Marcie Trent, 77, female; and her son, Larry Waldron, 45 July 1, 1995 Brown Killed by a bear defending a moose carcass on the McHugh Creek Trail near Anchorage, Alaska.

Colin McClelland, 24, male August 10, 1993 Black Killed as a result of a crushed skull after a 240 pound male Black bear tore open the door to his trailer and attacked at WAGH Mountain, Colorado. The bear was later destroyed by game wardens.

John Petranyi, male October 3, 1992 Brown Attacked and killed by a female with 2 cubs on the Loop Trail, Upper McDonald Valley, Glacier National Park. The attack occurred less than 200 yards from the campground area where Julie Helgeson was dragged from her sleeping bag and killed in August 1967.

Sebastien Lauzier, male June 14, 1992 Black Attacked and killed on field assignment near Cochrane, Ontario.

Raymond Jakubauskas, 32, and Carola Frehe, 48 October 11, 1991 Black Bates Island, Opeongo Lake, Algonquin Provincial Park, Ontario, Canada

Male camper May 26, 1991 Unknown Marten River Campground, Lesser Slave Lake, Alberta, Canada

[edit] 1980s
Name, age, gender Date Species Location, Comments
Gary Goeden, male found September 1, 1987; missing since July 28, 1987 Brown His partially consumed remains were found at Natahki Lake, Many Glacier Valley, Glacier National Park.

Charles Gibbs, 40, male April 25, 1987 Brown He was last seen alive following and photographing a female with cubs at Elk Mountain in Glacier National Park. Investigators recovered film of the female approaching in attack mode at 50 yards.

William Tesinsky, photographer October 1986 Brown Approached an adult female too closely in the Otter Creek area of Hayden Valley, Yellowstone National Park.

Brigitta Fredenhagen July 1984 Brown Dragged from a tent during the night and killed at a backcountry campsite at the southern end of White Lake in Yellowstone National Park.[11]

Roger May June 1983 Brown Dragged from a tent during the night and killed at the Rainbow Point campground in the Gallatin National Forest just Northwest of Yellowstone National Park.

Laurence Gordon, male September 30, 1980 Brown Attacked and killed at the Elizabeth Lake campsite in the Belly River valley, Glacier National Park.

Male and Female August 17, 1980 Unknown Killed near Zama, Alberta, Canada
Jane Ammerman, female; Kim Eberly, male July 24, 1980 Brown Attacked and killed during the night at an illegal campsite at Divide Creek in the St. Mary valley, Glacier National Park.

Unknown July 18, 1980 Unknown Killed at Leo Creek, British Columbia, Canada

[edit] 1970s
Name, age, gender Date Species Location, Comments
Unknown, male June 19, 1978 Black Porcupine Mountains State Park, Michigan

George Halfkenny, Mark Halfkenny, Billy Rhindress May 13, 1978 Black Stalked and killed while fishing near Radiant Lake, Algonquin Provincial Park, Ontario, Canada

Mary Pat Mahoney, 22, female September 23, 1976 Brown She was dragged from a tent and killed at Many Glacier campground in Glacier National Park.

Alan Precup, male August, 1976 Brown He disappeared while backpacking in the Alaskan wilderness. Days later, searchers found his campsite with his bare skeleton, one intact hand, and both feet, still booted.

Harry Walker June 1972 Brown Killed by a bear that was feeding on food that was left out at illegal campsite near Old Faithful Inn, Yellowstone National Park.

John Richardson, 31, male 1971 Black Killed while camping at West side of Rocky Mountain National Park.

[edit] 1960s
Name, age, gender Date Species Location, Comments
Male October 1, 1968 Black Killed near Atikokan, Ontario, Canada.

Julie Helgeson, 19, female August 13, 1967 Brown Killed at Granite Park campsite in Glacier National Park by a female bear. Attack occurred during the night; bear dragged the victim off while still in her sleeping bag. Attack site was less than 200 yards from where John Petranyi was attacked and killed on the loop trail in 1992. Helgeson's companion, Roy Ducat, was severely mauled during the attack.

Michelle Koons, 19, female August 13, 1967 Brown Killed at Trout Lake campsite in Glacier National Park by a female bear.

Although Helgeson and Koons were the same age and killed on the same night, these were separate attacks by different bears approximately 10 miles apart.[12]

[edit] 1940s
Name, age, gender Date Species Location, Comments
Unknown August 1942 Species undetermined Killed at Old Faithful campground in Yellowstone National Park.

[edit] 1910s
Name, age, gender Date Species Location, Comments
Unknown male 1916 Brown Killed at a roadside camp in Yellowstone National Park

[edit] 1880s
Name, age, gender Date Species Location, Comments
Franklin Devereaux, 52, male 4 Sept 1883 Unknown Killed in Cheboygan County, Michigan; victim was a hunter and trapper. Both Bear and victim were found dead — the bear of a gunshot wound and the hunter from a blow to his head.


From Jan 1 1990 to date Brown Bear attacks number = 20
From Jan 1 1990 to date Black Bear attacks number = 20

Before Dec 31 1989 brown attacks number = 9,black attacks number = 4,unknown species attacks = 3.

As a species the "Ursus Americanus" is severely under-rated as a predator by those of the "Gentle Ben" mindset and those that consider only Griz to be a threat.

George

Jean-Francois Pagé, 28, male April 28, 2006 Brown Fatally mauled while staking mineral claims near Ross River, Yukon, Canada. He unknowingly walked right past a bear den containing a sow and 2 cubs. [4]
Elora Petrasek, 6, female April 13, 2006 Black She was killed and her mother and 2 year-old brother seriously injured in an attack in the Cherokee National Forest in Tennessee.[5]


This happened at Chilhowee Lake (about 20 minutes from where I lived at the time), on the nature walk that goes back to the waterfalls. The Bear was a male that weighed in about 250lbs, which is a BIG black bear around here. The bear was shot 4 times by a Park Ranger with a 38special, and wasn't even fazed. That wound did, though, help to identify the bear when the Forestry Service went into the woods. He was shot and killed around an old campsite (complete with garbage) by a volunteer with a 30/06 early the next month.

Mossberg 590 loaded with Tri-Ball or Remington 3" 000buck is the camping gun.

George

Yes sir, some more good information indeed. That marine horn sounds like a good idea. I’ll caution you though, that blacks don’t always despise loud and abrupt noise. A good friend of mine is a conservation officer here in the province, and last year he and one of his co-workers had to relocate a large sow. Normally, when they open the gate, the bears take off like a bat out of hades. However, that wasn’t the case with this sow. Rather than darting out, she exited at more of a fast walk. In hopes of speeding up her pace, one of them fired off 12 gauge round into the air. It had the opposite effect. She stopped, turned around, and stared at them for several moments before eventually lumbering off into the woods. I can tell you the rangers were more than a little surprised, and concerned, at the sow’s reaction to the gunshot. As mentioned, the forests here are teeming with black bears, and the reason for my initial question was a result of a situation another friend of mine found herself in last fall. She was bird hunting on a hilly peninsula only a few miles from her camp. She was driving an ATV. There were rumors of a large, brazen boar in the area, but she was undeterred. At the end of the day, on her way back to the camp, she encountered the large boar. She was at the bottom of the last hill, and he was at the top of the hill, about a 150 yards away. They both stopped. She was very careful not to point the ATV directly at him, nor stare directly at him. Keep in mind, this was the only trail off the peninsula, and the boar knew it. So, he laid down in the middle of the trail, and waited for her to make a move. Again, she was very careful not to back-up, not to advance, not to point the ATV directly at him, nor stare directly at him. He kept her pinned on the trail for about 25 minutes. He eventually got bored of the situation, so he got up and walked away. She obviously approached the situation appropriately, but had she made one wrong move, it’s clear to me he would have charged her, and that was the reason for my question. I’m convinced now that a horn, axe, knife, heavy birdshot up-close, and possibly spray would be better than taking your chances with a .224 caliber rifle, as this would further aggravate the animal. Sure, a clean headshot would do the trick, but you’re talking about a fairly small, very fast moving target, and you likely wouldn’t get a second shot, especially with a bolt-action.

<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Thanks to everyone for the feedback. <O:p</O:p

Just wondering if anyone has used a .223 or .22-250 to kill black bear (predator control / self-defense)?

Why would you want to use a .223 or .22-250 on a black bear?
The average black bear will weigh 200 pounds or less but may weigh 600 pounds. I would use a .308 caliber or larger standard caliber.

im sure ill get hammered for this but here goes,
i think a lot of people these days are bullet crazy, i know a rancher who lives locally whos killed over 40 elk with his 22-250, a guy i was hunting with had his 300wsm break and killed his cow with his 204, i personnally kill all my elk with my 30-06 with 150 gr, ive killed with one shot out to 400 yards, my cousin killed his elk with a 6mm, my friend with a 223 on a cow and a muley buck, my other cousin shoots his 25-06 with a medium size bullet and has killed caribou, bull elk, and a bull moose with this, im not saying i would reccomend any of these, but i wouldn't pass up a good shot on a bull with a 243 just because i didn't have a 30 caliber, i say if you want to carry a 22 centerfire for bears and feel comfortable with it than thats your choice, i know ill PO a bunch of people by this and im sorry i have held my breath for too long on this issue, sorry for the novel too.

If your option for personal-defense carry in the field/camp is limited to .224diameter long-guns or a shotgun with fine shot(lead BB .18" diameter/steel F .22" diameter)with handguns being a zero option,well a shotgun charged with Hevi-Shot "Dead Coyote" (tungsten/nickel T-shot .20" diameter)would seem to be a good bet.

I've used a 222Rem with 63grain Speer semi-soft point to take whitetail throughout the southeast while on Uncle Sam's nickel!:D

My 223rem with 69grain HPBT(I know it is not a game bullet)has accounted for plenty of whitetail,feral-hogs,six black bear and two speed goats!
But this load will shoot better than I can and has never let me down to date.


My wifes brother takes his family camping throughout the Pisgah/Nahtahala/Cherokee national forest down TN/NC and his gun of choice is what he used in the USMC!
A Mossberg 590 stoked with 2.75" Remington Express 3 3/4dram 1 1/4oz Lead BB.
He had the barrel threaded for choke tubes and has a Kick's Buck stopper tube inserted.

Black Bear,feral dogs and two legged vermin at defense ranges are all within that devil-dog's capability!

Never underestimate anything when it comes to protecting ones self and more so when charged with the protection of others.

George

Not a 22 center fire, but one can kill a black near with a 30-30, 35 Remington and I would say a 308 is ideal. No, I am not saying a 30-06 is not a good choice, obviously anything bigger than a 30-30 is just as good, but if you ask many old-timers in the east, they did have confidence in the 30-30. Yes, a 44 magnum will kill a black bear and from a rifle, it is even a safer bet.

a guy i was hunting with had his 300wsm break and killed his cow with his 204.....my friend with a 223 on a cow....i say if you want to carry a 22 centerfire for bears and feel comfortable with it than thats your choice, i know ill PO a bunch of people by this and im sorry i have held my breath for too long on this issue, sorry for the novel too.

:eek: An elk with a 204 and 223??....IMO that's irresponsible and should not have even been attempted and I'll leave it at that. But I will add the difference between attempting that with an elk is the elk is not going to come after you...use enough firepower for things that fight back. This past bear season, a guy in the UP was attacked after the bear was shot. It grabbed a dog, then him....and he was using a lot larger gun than a 22 centerfire:

USA: Hunter survives attack from 430-pound black bear Oct, 2007

Wounded animal falls from tree, grabs hunting dog and bites man before it finally dies.

George Hunter / The Detroit News

Steven Remsing is swearing off bear hunting after surviving an attack Sunday by a 430-pound black bear while hunting with friends in the Upper Peninsula.Remsing, a 45-year-old Sterling Heights computer repairman who describes himself as an avid hunter, was recovering Monday from arm and leg injuries in Marquette General Hospital after Sunday's attack. He was listed in stable condition."We were bear hunting up in Ontonagon County, and we saw a bear go up a tree," Remsing said Monday in a telephone interview from his hospital room. "I took a shot, and the bear started to move. Then he fell down. Normally, they'll just run off into the woods, but this one turned and started attacking one of our dogs."We were out of bullets, so we started beating the bear," Remsing said. "We were using logs, and whatever we could grab. We knew the bear was going to die, but it was ripping the dog apart and we had to do something."

As Remsing and his friends were trying to dislodge the bear's jaws from the Walker Coonhound, the bear suddenly turned and sank its teeth into Remsing's arm. "I was able to pull my arm out of its mouth and kick it in the nose," Remsing said. "It bit me one more time in the leg, and then it rolled down a hill and died." The bear weighed in at 430 pounds, Remsing said.

Remsing said he isn't hurt too badly. "He took a nice chunk out of my forearm, but I'm okay," he said. The dog survived the attack, he said. Black bears can be dangerous -- especially when they're wounded -- said Lt. Creig Grey of the Michigan Department of Natural Resources. "It's a wild animal," Grey said. "And if it's injured, it's going to fight back.
"An analogy I use with bears is: I wouldn't recommend anyone grab a dog that weighs 60 pounds, so obviously I wouldn't recommend trying to grab a bear," Grey said. "These are very powerful animals. I've seen them go right through the side of a building, or knock a door right off the frame if there's something in there they want. So people need to stay away from them." There are between 15,000 to 19,000 black bears in Michigan, according to the DNR. About 90 percent of them live in the Upper Peninsula.

Only thing I can't figure out is why they were out of bullets..:confused:

It worth hammer the point home that there is a big differance between hunting and stoping an attack. When hunt a .270 will take gizz but it we but silly for a guide to us such a firearem as back up a .375 ot .45/70 would be much better. Now I don't own one however if I was going to pick up a rifle for bear protection (note that I live with Gizzs so if you live blackie the load may be too much) I would Pick up a Guide gun in .45/70 and load up with some Garrett Cartridges may even the 540 Grain. Yes a .375 or .416 have more power but the Guide Gun handles nicely (It on the short list for by new firearm and I have handled one a few times )

m1 garand, you said elk won't come after you which is true however i still hold to my statement that this is enough gun if needed, my grandfather killed 3 grizzly bears with 3 shots, aroung 1950 with a 25-35 rifle which isn't a cannon by any means, two were point blank and 1 was about 50 yards coming at him, all 3 died nearly instantly and fell to the 25-35

I can't argue with results. I'm sure they've been killed with smaller than a 25-35 and I'd bet with a 22 LR even. But when it's potentially a life or death situation, why take that chance? I personally wouldn't want to. Bell killed over 1000 elephants with a 7 x 57 Mauser...it still doesn't make it a good elephant round. Not trying to argue or anything but I think there's better tools for that task.

Old Bell also used the 6.5x54 MS with the 156grain RN.
7x57,303 and the 6.5x54 all were valued for the reason that you could pack more ammo into a porters pack than you could 500Nitro/416rigby/4-bore ammo.

More ammo meant more ivory=more cash.

George

I can't argue with results. I'm sure they've been killed with smaller than a 25-35 and I'd bet with a 22 LR even.
In fact the largest Grizz ever taking in Alberta was done with a .22 rimfire (not sure if it was Long rilfe)

Old Bell also used the 6.5x54 MS with the 156grain RN.
7x57,303 and the 6.5x54 all were valued for the reason that you could pack more ammo into a porters pack than you could 500Nitro/416rigby/4-bore ammo.

More ammo meant more ivory=more cash.

George

I also recently read that he didn't like recoil either.