One of the bullseye shooters in our pistol club told me he had been using .45 185 gr. SWC with 4.? Bullseye powder. We have both been using 200 gr. SWC with 3.7 gr. of Bullseye. He said there was far less recoil.

Can anyone tell me why? And, if that is true, why does anyone shoot .45 200 gr.

I recently started casting my own bullets. I have been casting 200 gr. Should I buy a new mold? Is there a place for both weights?

John

I have a pretty good supply of both.

If you load the 185's, or 200's with enough powder to get reliable function from any given .45, and you can tell the difference, I would be surprised.

Some .45's will shoot one better than the other, some will shoot both to the same point of impact. A classic in it depends.

One of the bullseye shooters in our pistol club told me he had been using .45 185 gr. SWC with 4.? Bullseye powder. We have both been using 200 gr. SWC with 3.7 gr. of Bullseye. He said there was far less recoil.

Can anyone tell me why? And, if that is true, why does anyone shoot .45 200 gr.

I recently started casting my own bullets. I have been casting 200 gr. Should I buy a new mold? Is there a place for both weights?

John

Okay, as I understand it, recoil is the "equal opposite reaction" of accelerating the bullet and the powder-turned-gasses to the speeds at which they leave the barrel. Naturally, there's factors of gun mass and springs in semi-autos, but those are constants when comparing loads in the same gun.
Obviously, 185gr bullets have less mass than 200gr bullets. But, the charges are also of different masses. Even if that 185gr load has 4.9gr of powder, that means the mass you're accelerating goes from 203.7gr to 189.9gr when you switch from 200gr bullets to 185gr bullets.

John,
The 185 gr. SWC has been a perennial favorite at the timed and rapid fire stages of a bullseye match due to its reduced recoil for fast follow up shots whereas the 200 gr. SWC is a favorite at the slow fire stage because its heavier weight tends to buck the wind a little better. Since the slow fire stage gives the shooter plenty of time to complete the course of fire, recoil of the 200 gr. SWC is not an issue.

I might add that 1911 autos will likely need a lighter recoil spring (about 11 lbs.) to shoot the 185 gr. SWC along with it's lighter charge for reliable functioning.

Whether or not you should purchase a new mould would depend on how well you are handling the recoil of the 200 gr. SWC. If you are shooting well with it, you might not want to make the change other than you might shoot even better scores with the lighter bullet especially during timed and rapid fire. Why not secure a supply of 185s and try them out before purchasing a new mould?

I started and stayed with the 185 gr. SWC for all stages of bullseye shooting since where I shoot, the weather does not go to extremes. I also shoot the 200 gr. SWC especially when I'm shooting my combat guns. Hope this helps.

My experience is not too different from Marshal's. I aways shot Star 185 grain swaged SWC's over 3.8 grains of Bullseye for indoor 50 ft. matches. I went to the more accurate cast bullets for 25 yards outdoors, and 200 grains for 50 yard slow fire. My Goldcup is distinctly more accurate with 200 grain bullets and that same powder charge. 4.0 grains of Bullseye makes it even more accurate. If your gun is a 1911, you will notice there is a little more recoil from the added bullet weight, but there is also more perceived recoil because the slide slaps the frame more solidly if you don't swap in a one or two pound heavier recoil spring when you change to the higher bullet weight and/or powder charge. If you keep adjusting the recoil spring, you can make even hardball seem pleasantly mild, even if it does make the muzzle rise more.

I was using a 10 lb spring with the swaged 185 grains bullets and 11 and 12 lb springs with the cast bullets, IIRC. The softer bullets recoil less because they don't offer as high a start pressure to the powder, so they start moving with a little less pressure. What spring you really need depends on your gun. In a 1911, the choice depends on the mass of your slide and sights and barrel, the stiffness of your mainspring, the location of the hammer strut pin hole in your hammer, the shape of the bottom edge of your firing pin stop, how tall the barrel link lugs had to be cut to fit your slide, choice of powder, and, most especially, how firmly you grip and stand behind the gun. When you have too much recoil spring, the recoil gets soft and mushy because the slide never touches down on the frame before going back forward. That puts you at risk of failing to feed a round, so you want first to find what spring weight is right on the edge with your load; mushy on some shots and sharper on others, then go one pound lighter.

I always used shock buffer pads to protect the slide and frame of my Goldcup, but never felt they had any significant effect on perceived recoil. Ironically, I don't believe in using them with hotter loads in a defensive pistol just because I've seen them batter to the point they split, and I don't want to risk having a part loose that could cause a jam.

If you have a 1911, you should own a selection of recoil springs for it to enable you to find the right one. I can recommend Sprinco's (http://www.sprinco.com/), which come with a color coding paint spot to indicate the weight and are treated with a permanent lube. I like to send all my gun springs out to be cryo treated after I get them, because springs so treated can remain under tension longer without taking a set. If you carry a 1911 cocked and locked, it is a good idea to have the mainspring, especially, so treated.

As to recoil in all guns, it partly depends what bullet and powder gas mass are accelerated to what velocity at the moment the bullet base just comes even with the muzzle? It then depends on how much pressure and gas mass remain, because after the bullet leaves, the gas mass will be further accelerated by the residual pressure, forming a jet. That jet acts like any rocket motor. In high power rifles it can be responsible for up to almost half the total recoil if the powder used is slow enough to result in high muzzle pressure. In a handgun the jet is strong enough that you can feel a recoil difference between same-velocity loads shot with fast and slow powders.

Fast powders need higher peak pressure to reach a given velocity, since they do more of their pushing at the beginning of bullet travel, and less as the bullet progresses down the tube. Super fast Vihtavuori N310, for example, will recoil less than Bullseye. 3.8 grains of Bullseye under a 185 grain cast bullet produces about 630 fps with a peak pressure of 5300 PSI and a residual muzzle pressure of 1700 PSI in a 5" tube. About 2.8 grains of N310 achieves the same velocity with about 5500 PSI peak pressure and 1400 PSI left at the muzzle. You feel the difference between the 1700 and the 1400 PSI jets.

Well Marshall & Uncle Nick, that is a complete answer for sure.

Although I've had a .45 for most of my 57 years, I've never played with spring weights, and have adapted my loads for reliable function with any bullet weight/powder. Don't even know if my springfield Compact has optional spring weights.

Good day when you learn something new.

Thanks,

Amazing the scope of experience that is found here. Happy to share as we all benefit. Thanks for your post.

Ditto.

Wolff makes some reduced power springs for your Springfield Armory Compact. 18 lb and 20 lb. They are $8 and the part numbers are 49318 and 49320. Wolff can be reached toll free at 800-545-0077.

The shorter guns use heavier springs because they don't have as much slide mass to help absorb the recoil impulse. 16 lb is standard for a full-size 1911, 18 lb for the Commander length, and 22 lb is standard for the SA Compact and the Champion. Wolff also makes a 24 lb extra power spring in case you are shooting +P or just feel the standard spring isn't up to it, as can be the case if you have a strong grip and extra mass behind the gun.